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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2007, 6:34 PM
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I think the great cities of the world will continue to be those that are pedestrian friendly and those that have beautiful public outdoor spaces. I don't know if places like Dubai and Hong Kong have such characteristics but you never hear much about them if they do.
You're kidding right? Hong Kong is one of the liveliest and most pedestrian-oriented cities in the world in terms of pedestrian traffic, shops and as a distinct place to be. Walking along Fai Yuen Street is impossible because you get pushed from behind. Even in lesser-used areas in the New Territories, its levels of pedestrian orientation beat those in Toronto where I live or in Ottawa.

But I generally agree with your sentiment, though HK was a bad example of doubt. Shanghai's Pudong district gave me that feeling of just tall buildings with little to get from one area to another.
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2007, 4:22 AM
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But I generally agree with your sentiment, though HK was a bad example of doubt. Shanghai's Pudong district gave me that feeling of just tall buildings with little to get from one area to another.
You're damn right about Pudong - I spent an afternoon walking around there, and it was hell getting from place to place - huge avenues, barely any pedestrian crossings, Circuitous routes just to get across a road. Add to that nowhere to eat, hardly anywhere to sit down, no-one but businessmen around - it's not the sorta place you'd wanna hang out.
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2007, 4:28 AM
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looks pretty similar to Burj Dubai
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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2007, 8:51 PM
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The Illinois
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Illinois, Frank Lloyd Wright's proposed mile high skyscraper

In 1956, Frank Lloyd Wright proposed a mile-high (5,280 feet; 1609 meters) structure known as either Mile High Illinois, Illinois Sky-City, or simply The Illinois. The design, intended to be built in Chicago, was to have included 528 stories, with a gross area of 18.46 million square feet (1.71 million square meters; 171 ha). It was never built, although if it had been, it would have been (and still be) by far the tallest building in the world.

This is arguably the most famous of the semi-serious visionary buildings meant to be an alternative to the increasing urban sprawl occurring in most cities. None of these have, before now, been viewed as financially feasible. The Burj Dubai in Dubai, however, is expected to rise to half the height of the Illinois or more. Fittingly, the design of the Burj Dubai is reminiscent of Wright's vision.

Technical feasibility

Wright believed that it would have been technically possible to construct such a building even at the time it was proposed. At the time, the tallest skyscraper in the world was New York's Empire State Building, at less than a quarter the height suggested for the Illinois. It probably would have been possible to erect a self-supporting steel structure of the required height, but there were, and are, a number of problems which occur when a building is that tall:
The material used for towers at the time, steel, is quite flexible. This causes the tower to sway substantially in the wind, causing discomfort for occupants of the higher floors. It is possible this could have been solved by placing a counterweight somewhere within the tower such as in the Taipei 101. Also, the recent decade (late 1990s, early 2000s) has seen substantial increases in the load-bearing strength of concrete, making it a possibility to build entirely in this less flexible material.

Though Wright acknowledged this problem in his original proposal, he claimed the tripod design of this tower (similar to that of the CN Tower) combined with its tensilised steel frame and the integral character of its structural components would counteract any oscillation.
The space needed to service the elevators (needed to reach the higher levels) would occupy all of the space available on the lower floors, thus defeating the purpose of building tall. This was complicated by Wright's slender design. This problem has also been addressed in smaller buildings, such as in the Taipei 101, by using double-deck elevators. In the World Trade Center, the building was divided into three sectors, each with its own sky-lobby, where occupants changed between large express elevators and smaller local elevators. However, even with both of these measures implemented, the problem would still exist. Wright's solution was five-story elevators, running on nuclear powered ratchet interfaces located on the outside of the building (presumably on the unseen side in his painting) to conserve building space. Outer surface elevators are another feature in common with the CN Tower.
Fire safety. The need for emergency stairwells would bind much of the available space in the lower floors in a similar fashion. This could be overcome by designing elevators to remain operational during a fire.
Albeit at a smaller scale, the same problem as with the elevators is encountered with water and sewage. A possible solution would be to recycle the water used in the upper floors, although this is easier today than it was back in the 1950s.

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  #25  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2007, 8:55 PM
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The only ultra-skyscraper would be 1/2 mile and up IMO. Ultra is a powerful word.
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  #26  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2007, 2:55 PM
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  #27  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2007, 4:21 PM
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We're gonna have to start calling some of these "spacescrapers".
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  #28  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2007, 12:22 AM
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Did someone mention SPACEscraper?!

This is the ultimate skyscraper...or "space"scraper :-]

The X-Seed 4000



X-Seed 4000 is a proposed skyscraper that looks oddly like Mt. Fuji. Perhaps it’s unsurprising that it could be eventually built in Tokyo, Japan. The tallest building ever fully designed, the X-Seed 4000 would house between 500,000 and 1,000,000 people. A tiny quantity of individuals, if you take into account that the technology to “fabricate” mature adult individuals from raw materials is probably only a few decades away. (A topic that probably deserves a post all its own.)

The X-Seed 4000, which would be 4,000 meters high (13,123.2 feet), would in fact be taller than Mt. Fuji, which is merely 3776 meters high (12,388 ft).



The proposed structure would have a base 6 km wide and contain 800 floors. Designed by Taisei Construction Corporation, this mountain-shaped living environment would be powered by solar power and blend together high living with natural surroundings. It seems odd to claim that it would be powered by the sun entirely - this would mean that the company either intends to devote entire floors to nothing but solar panels or that it has found a way to power buildings economically with minimal paneling. In any case, it seems like nuclear power would be just as good.

Designed as an “intelligent building” the super-futuristically-named X-Seed 4000 would maintain light, temperature, and air pressure in response to changing external weather conditions. Because it has already been fully designed using materials available today, the structure could, in principle, be built, although it would likely cost several hundred billion dollars, if not more. Because the structure would weigh so much, it could only be built on the sea if present-day construction materials were used.

The X-Seed 4000 sounds an awful lot like an arcology, that is, ecological piece of architecture that would contain its own dependent ecosystem as well as human housing. In the long run, as buildings grow to such huge sizes that they become cities unto themselves, the integration of plants and animals will be essential for the preservation of human sanity and basic aesthetics. Eventually the Earth’s surface could become entirely covered in such structures.

http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/?p=24
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  #29  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2007, 1:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Imperar View Post
Did someone mention SPACEscraper?!

This is the ultimate skyscraper...or "space"scraper :-]

The X-Seed 4000



X-Seed 4000 is a proposed skyscraper that looks oddly like Mt. Fuji. Perhaps it’s unsurprising that it could be eventually built in Tokyo, Japan. The tallest building ever fully designed, the X-Seed 4000 would house between 500,000 and 1,000,000 people. A tiny quantity of individuals, if you take into account that the technology to “fabricate” mature adult individuals from raw materials is probably only a few decades away. (A topic that probably deserves a post all its own.)

The X-Seed 4000, which would be 4,000 meters high (13,123.2 feet), would in fact be taller than Mt. Fuji, which is merely 3776 meters high (12,388 ft).



...

Designed as an “intelligent building” the super-futuristically-named X-Seed 4000 would maintain light, temperature, and air pressure in response to changing external weather conditions. Because it has already been fully designed using materials available today, the structure could, in principle, be built, although it would likely cost several hundred billion dollars, if not more. Because the structure would weigh so much, it could only be built on the sea if present-day construction materials were used.

...

http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/?p=24
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  #30  
Old Posted May 1, 2007, 12:42 PM
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^ That X-Seed is scary...

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...lobal+business

The Race for the Tallest Skyscraper
Asia and Middle East cities are in the grip of serious tower mania, and are transforming 21st century architectural design in the process


by Brian Bremner

The race among the world's cities to build the ultimate record-busting, flat-out tallest skyscraper on the planet is fast and furious. And the obsession to build mega-structures in nosebleed territory is particularly acute in much of economically dynamic Asia and the oil-rich Middle East.

The frenzy of high-powered construction projects promises to transform 21st century skyscraper architecture in a big way. Currently, eight of the world's tallest 10 skyscrapers are in the region. And the present reigning champ among skyscrapers globally is Taiwan's Taipei 101, a structure that climbs up 509 meters or 1,671 feet.

Of course, a super-sized building boom is now raging in parts of the Middle East such as Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia. In fact, Samsung snagged the construction work for the monstrously high Burj Dubai, a tower complex slated to reach 800 meters (2,624 ft.) in height—which will easily blow by Taipei 101 when it's completed in late 2008. (It was designed by the U.S. architectural firm of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill. The architect was Adrian Smith.)

ing More Reflective"

Even lesser-known regional cities with a burning ambition to make their mark, view big, gutsy, and distinctively designed skyscrapers as potential game-changers—and are willing to offer serious incentives to get them. That's pretty much what city leaders in the South Korean port city of Busan (formerly known as Pusan) hope to accomplish with the planned 560-m. (1,837-ft.) Millennium Tower World Business Center, expected to be completed in 2010 or 2011.

This will be no bland monolith. New York-based Asymptote Architecture, which won an international design competition for the project that will spawn the tallest building in Asia, came up with a concept that features three tapered towers emerging from a powerful base foundation of floors. It offers stunning ocean and mountain views. "They were looking for something bold," says Hani Rashid, a principal architect with Asymptote. "We actually went in and tried to do something more reflective, to reset the game in terms of this tower mania…" in Asia.

Whether the Millennium Tower in Busan (a city also hoping to host the 2020 Summer Olympic Games) results in a huge economic lift is uncertain. But plenty of cities in Asia are definitely willing to roll the dice, and that's sweet news for international architectural firms and general contractors alike. "The market outlook for ultra-high buildings in the region is pretty bright," says Kang Sun Jong, vice-president in charge of architectural design and consulting at Samsung.

y Drivers

These super-structures are about more than just civic pride. Well-executed skyscrapers can be a real economic-development driver. Consider the 452-m. (1,483-ft.) Petronas Twin Towers in Kuala Lumpur, built in 1998, which was the world's tallest until it was eclipsed by Taipei 101 just six years later.

The Petronas Towers "…may no longer be the tallest building in the world, but it changed Malaysia and the perception of Kuala Lumpur" worldwide, says Goh Tuan Sui, chief executive officer of property consultancy WTW Malaysia. "A world-class building can also raise the bar for other buildings in the city, be it malls, office blocks, or hotels," he adds.

When it comes to sheer scale of tall building construction activity, it's hard to match Shanghai. Since 1990, the city has erected enough high-rises to fill a big chunk of Manhattan (see BusinessWeek.com, 2/8/07, "Shanghai Rising").

The 88-story Jin Mao Tower, with its distinctive tiered pagoda design, is the tallest building in China, rising to 421 meters, or 1,380 feet, …or at least it will be until the 492-m. (1,614-ft.) Shanghai World Financial Center is completed in 2008.

g for Materials Shortages

So is the current wave of next-generation skyscrapers starting to bump against the limits of modern-day construction engineering and material science? Rashid, with Asymptote Architecture, doesn't think so, given new construction materials coming onstream, advances in computer-aided building design, and the increasing use of robotic technology in building. "There are new materials emerging that could replace steel," he says.

Probably the biggest challenge for general contractors at the moment is getting their hands on needed engineering and construction talent, and even some basic construction materials, in a timely fashion, given the construction boom in Asia and the Middle East. "So many projects are being undertaken at the same time that securing in-time delivery of construction materials has emerged as a challenging task," says Samsung's Kang in reference to the Burj Dubai project.

As long as city planners in Asia and the Middle East have the financial wherewithal and vision to keep pushing the limits of construction engineering, the global "edifice complex" seems sure to continue.
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  #31  
Old Posted May 1, 2007, 12:50 PM
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Slideshow from the BusinessWeek article...
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/07...j/index_01.htm




The Making of the World’s Tallest Building
The Burj Dubai tower will be the world’s tallest building when completed in 2008. Here’s a look at the building of this mega-structure


By Moon Ihlwan

The world’s most ambitious cities have always had something of an edifice complex. Last century there was the fabled rivalry between New York and Chicago to build the boldest and biggest skyscrapers. Now the action has shifted to prospering metropolises in economically dynamic Asia and the currently cash-flush Middle East. In late January the South Korean business hub, Busan, announced plans to erect a 560m (1,837 ft.) tall skyscraper complex dubbed the Millennium Tower World Business Center that will be the tallest building in Asia when it’s completed in 2010 or 2011.

Yet the true bragging rights for the world’s mightiest mega-structure (currently Taiwan’s Taipei 101 building) will soon belong to Dubai in the United Arab Emirates, where the 800 m. (2624 ft.) Burj Dubai is expected to be completed in November, 2008. Designed by U.S. architectural firm Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, it will house 39 floors of hotel space, 64 floors of apartment units, and 37 floors of office space. Here’s a quick look at how this trophy tower is going up, built by a consortium led by prime contractor Samsung Corp.




Monster Foundation
The 800-meter (1,827 feet) Burj Dubai will need the mother of all foundations to support a super-structure that is expected to weigh 500,000 tons. The tower will rest on a 3.7m-thick triangular frame foundation supported by 192 rounded steel piles or support cylinders measuring 1.5m in diameter and extending 50m (164 ft.) below the ground.




Quake Proof
High-strength concrete is used to help achieve stability in this ultra-high structure. The Burj Dubai is designed to withstand an earthquake (unlikely in this seismically quiet part of the world) measuring up to six on the Richter scale. It will also hold steady during severe winds of up to 55m per second, which the office workers in the clouds won’t sense at all.




Eye in the Sky
To ensure the structural stability of the Burj Dubai during construction, the tower’s vertical and lateral movements are tracked with the help of a satellite-based global positioning system. During construction, any change in load distribution of the building is closely monitored in real time through the use of more than 700 sensors embedded in its structure.




Super Cranes
On the uppermost finished floor on the Burj Dubai, three giant tower cranes have been installed to lift vast amounts of construction materials quickly where they are needed.




That Sinking Feeling
A building of this size (remember, this structure weighs 500,000 tons) has a tendency to sink, if ever so slightly. So each floor is constructed an average of 4mm higher than the designated floor height.




Hedging Bets
To make sure the Burj Dubai is the highest on the planet, the tower is topped with a spiral structure that extends from the 700 meter mark. To get it up there, blocks for the base of the spiral are actually assembled within the building. Then, the spire pipe is lifted up by hydraulic jacks with the help of steel cables.




Shelter from the Storm
The Burj Dubai is designed with four refuge shelters every 30 floors in case of emergencies such as a fire or terrorist attack. Also, in addition to 54 high-speed elevators, separate emergency elevators are being installed to quickly and safely evacuate occupants located on higher levels.
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  #32  
Old Posted May 2, 2007, 7:57 PM
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More pictures of the X-Seed 4000:












Last edited by Imperar; May 3, 2007 at 10:28 AM.
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  #33  
Old Posted May 2, 2007, 8:27 PM
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Does that thing have like a planetary defense gun that shoots out of the top, or is it just a dumb skyscraper? Too bad the land required to build that thing is larger than my city.
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  #34  
Old Posted May 2, 2007, 9:55 PM
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No, there is no planetary defense thingymajig at the top, unfortunately, lol

It's probably just due to the scanner that was used... but anyway

The structure itself will not be built on land due to its weight, instead, it will be built in the sea where the foundation is much stronger.

A height comparison between the Burj Dubai and the X Seed 4000 using Autocad:



You can even try parachuting from the top too.

Edit: I've calculated the population density to be about 35,000 people / sq km, that's 1 million people over a diameter of 6km

Last edited by Imperar; May 3, 2007 at 10:31 AM.
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  #35  
Old Posted May 11, 2007, 12:45 PM
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heh, how would steel (or concrete) handle the weight of the thing?
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  #36  
Old Posted May 11, 2007, 1:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey View Post
I agree that Asian cities are building the tallest and coolest skyscrapers ever, but are they building great cities? I've never been to any of these places but I can't imagine it is very nice atmosphere at ground-level being surrounded by 1000-foot towers. I think the great cities of the world will continue to be those that are pedestrian friendly and those that have beautiful public outdoor spaces. I don't know if places like Dubai and Hong Kong have such characteristics but you never hear much about them if they do.
Let's put it this way, the smallest, most lame city in Asia is still probably more vibrant and pedestrian friendly than anything in North America. Highrises only add to the excitement that's been here for thousands of years.
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  #37  
Old Posted May 13, 2007, 7:29 AM
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These buildings divert from underlying poverty

^ Depends what you mean by vibrant. Anyone who has visited asia knows that most of the continent is like 100 years in the past. The people are extremely poor by American standards. These buildings present a westernized, respectable face to cities that are full of poor delapidated buildings and millions of hungry factory workers. The reason many of these buildings can be constructed so easily there is because they don't pay the workers anywhere near what american workers would get to do the same thing. Think, Japan is the most affluent nation in asia because it opened up early, mostly because of American influence. Are they even mentioned building a real building? No, only the fictional X-Seed have we discussed.

If you think millions of hungry factory workers and delapidated buildings with a few supertall buildings isolated on the other side of the city means a great city, then by all means, enjoy!
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  #38  
Old Posted May 14, 2007, 3:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Imperar View Post
The X-Seed 4000, which would be 4,000 meters high (13,123.2 feet), would in fact be taller than Mt. Fuji, which is merely 3776 meters high (12,388 ft).
Does that mean it will have a permanent snow cap at the top ?
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  #39  
Old Posted May 14, 2007, 6:10 AM
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Does that mean it will have a permanent snow cap at the top ?
Haha! I thought the same..

X-Seed 4000 will be very amazing, and should be built! Even I heard rumors that it is very possible to be built.

And yes, we need that one to be on the diagram. It will very impressive and massive ever built in the world!
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  #40  
Old Posted May 14, 2007, 7:31 AM
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heh, how would steel (or concrete) handle the weight of the thing?
Steel and concrete reinforced i believe. The structure has been designed by using current materials of today, therefore in principle, can be built.

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Does that mean it will have a permanent snow cap at the top ?
To prevent that, thermal energy would rise to the top, warming the spaces above.
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