Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) - Page 27

ac888yow · #**521** Posted: **Mar 9, 2010, 7:08 PM**

I don't think anyone would disagree that Amsterdam is more interesting than Frankfurt as a city, and that once in Europe one of the best ways to get around is by rail ... but I think that's where our agreement ends. I don't want to get into a long, largely off-topic debate, but:

1) Almost everyone travelling around Europe by rail will travel on a Euro Rail pass. Frankfurt's Hauptbahnhof station is one of the busiest in the world, and numerous sources (such as Rail Europe, Wiki, etc.) put it at the busiest in Europe. The number of destinations is huge, meaning there's no better place to connect from air to rail. What's more, doing so is a breeze via a direct airport-train station rail link with a journey time of 11 min.

2) If money is the main or only object for someone, they could realize the best savings by sticking to charters the likes of Air Transat, Thomas Cook, etc.

3) Re: busing it to Montreal to catch a flight. Sorry, but as a seasoned traveller I pull no punches and re-iterate that it's a lousy way to start/end a trip. There's no comparison to the ease, convenience, and pleasure of flying directly overseas from Ottawa. Sure, you can fly directly to more destinations from Montreal, but getting to Montreal isn't 'free' (in terms of time). I'd rather use the lounge, grab a coffee/beer, do some shopping, etc. in an airport during a 2-hour connection to my destination rather than sit on a bus for the same amount of time getting to Montreal. Customs in Montreal works, barely, but lines are often long as are the wait times.

4) Maybe you wouldn't advise someone to stick to legacy carriers, but I would. Increasingly we are seeing the legacy carriers are becoming more competitive with the LCCs in terms of pricing. Whenever possible, I stick with them for the mileage/status and for the proven safety records. I happily pay a premium for that, because I get it back on the other side via first class upgrades, lounge access, etc.

5) While it will surely shrink when more A380s and 747-8s come online, Lufthansa's B747-400 fleet isn't disappearing anytime soon. Beginning Feb/2010, the youngest ships (not sure exactly how many .. about 20) be receiving AVOD at every seat. You'll probably miss it though.

One final note:

I realize price is a huge/only factor for many. To these people I say: do whatever you can best afford. Thankfully I (usually) have the means to pay the premium and choose to do so whenever possible for the convenience of using my hometown airport, and for the support I provide to it and the local economy in the process.

The only way to grow our airport is to support the existing flights. In this day and age, airlines operate many routes on extremely tight margins ... I have it from a contact at an airline that often +/- 3-5 passengers can make or break the viability of a route. People in Ottawa generally have money ... now if we could just separate more of them from it in support of the local situation.

O-Town Hockey · #**522** Posted: **Mar 9, 2010, 8:35 PM**

Very good points!
I'm 100% with you in terms of flying direct from Ottawa or using connections from here as much as possible. Our airport is quiet, clean, efficient, and comfortable. It's a great place to start and end any trip. I've used AC888/889 a few times and look forward to someday using YOW-FRA to one of it's seemingly endless possible destinations. Any tips on when I should book to get the best deal on AC888/889 this July or August?

ac888yow · #**523** Posted: **Mar 10, 2010, 2:20 PM**

I don't really know of any 'secrets' to getting the best fare, but in my experience the best way to achieve the lowest fare is to be flexible with your dates. Just tick the 'flexible with dates' box on a booking engine to see a fare calendar and pick the lowest fare that meets your needs.

Also, being flexible means that you can pounce on deals when they arise ... and they do quite often. For example, just recently Air Canada had an insane 2-for-1 deal (two people MUST fly on the same itinerary) to all international (non-US) destinations for travel completed before May 31. I booked 2 tickets to Tokyo for $1400 TOTAL. Yes, that's right, TOTAL ... for two tickets. Go to aircanada.ca and sign up for their WebSaver email and you'll get the deals in your inbox.

It's also useful to know who code-shares on the flights you're planning on using. You can check with that carrier directly to see what fare they're offering ... sometimes it's less. To determine the code-shares for a flight just punch in the flight number into a flight tracker like FlightStats(.com). For example, let's look at the code-shares for today's departures to London and Frankfurt:

LHR London AC 888 Air Canada 10:05 PM Scheduled On-time 763
LHR London UA 8558^ United Airlines 10:05 PM Scheduled On-time 763
LHR London TP 8257^ TAP-Air Portugal 10:05 PM Scheduled On-time 763
LHR London SK 3816^ SAS - Scandinavian Airlines 10:05 PM Scheduled On-time 763
LHR London OS 8232^ Austrian 10:05 PM Scheduled On-time 763
LHR London LH 6743^ Lufthansa 10:05 PM Scheduled On-time 763
LHR London BD 4888^ bmi 10:05 PM Scheduled On-time 763

FRA Frankfurt AC 838 Air Canada 5:10 PM Scheduled On-time 763
FRA Frankfurt UA 8498^ United Airlines 5:10 PM Scheduled On-time 763
FRA Frankfurt LH 9643^ Lufthansa 5:10 PM Scheduled On-time 763

As an aside, let's figure out the story behind these code-shares. The airlines mentioned are offering seats on OUR flights, travel agents in those countries are doing the same, funnelling people through OUR airport and/or bringing people to OUR city, spening money HERE, supporting OUR economy, driving demand for OUR services. There's your evidence as to why it's so important to support the local air network.

Back to your question:

Realistically, July/August represents the absolute peak in travel so you're going to pay a premium on top of a premium (one simply to travel during this period and another to travel from Ottawa). You can either pay it or seek out a cheaper fare from another airport.

O-Town Hockey · #**524** Posted: **Mar 10, 2010, 8:29 PM**

I have no problem paying the premium, but still hope to find a flight for less than the 1200 that their going at currently. Thanks for the info about the WebSavers, definately gonna hit that up right away.

Radster · #**525** Posted: **Mar 15, 2010, 8:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac888yow

1) Almost everyone travelling around Europe by rail will travel on a Euro Rail pass. Frankfurt's Hauptbahnhof station is one of the busiest in the world, and numerous sources (such as Rail Europe, Wiki, etc.) put it at the busiest in Europe. The number of destinations is huge, meaning there's no better place to connect from air to rail. What's more, doing so is a breeze via a direct airport-train station rail link with a journey time of 11 min.

Amsterdam Centraal Station is also about 15 minutes by train from Schiphol Airport, with a frequency of trains every 7 minutes or so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac888yow

2) If money is the main or only object for someone, they could realize the best savings by sticking to charters the likes of Air Transat, Thomas Cook, etc.

3-5 years ago, trans-atlantic on charters were a good option, but this year, there are very little flights on charters across the pond, and hardly cheaper than a traditional airline, so for trans-atlantic, I think traditional is the way to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac888yow

3) Re: busing it to Montreal to catch a flight. Sorry, but as a seasoned traveller I pull no punches and re-iterate that it's a lousy way to start/end a trip. There's no comparison to the ease, convenience, and pleasure of flying directly overseas from Ottawa. Sure, you can fly directly to more destinations from Montreal, but getting to Montreal isn't 'free' (in terms of time). I'd rather use the lounge, grab a coffee/beer, do some shopping, etc. in an airport during a 2-hour connection to my destination rather than sit on a bus for the same amount of time getting to Montreal. Customs in Montreal works, barely, but lines are often long as are the wait times.

My choice is Ottawa as well, and believe me, 75% of the time I fly out of YOW. Last year, it was a trip with my buddies, and not with the boss, so bussing to/from Montreal on the KLM bus was actually a fun way to start/end the trip and we all appreciated the $ we saved And I guess you had bad experiences with customs in MTL, because every time I have travelled through there, it was never long, and if there were many people, they just opened up more booths and the line moved quicker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac888yow

4) Maybe you wouldn't advise someone to stick to legacy carriers, but I would. Increasingly we are seeing the legacy carriers are becoming more competitive with the LCCs in terms of pricing. Whenever possible, I stick with them for the mileage/status and for the proven safety records. I happily pay a premium for that, because I get it back on the other side via first class upgrades, lounge access, etc.

I advise people to shop around and compare legacy carriers with budget airlines, especially in Europe and Asia. I travel to and around Europe often, as I was born there, have family there and feel like its my second home. Once in Europe, budget airlines are my choice for short-haul, but you are right, sometimes it can be just as cheap to fly with a traditional airline. I check both, using the websites of Ryanair, EasyJet etc, and then comparing with my favourite website for legacy carriers - ticketpilot.ca .

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac888yow

5) While it will surely shrink when more A380s and 747-8s come online, Lufthansa's B747-400 fleet isn't disappearing anytime soon. Beginning Feb/2010, the youngest ships (not sure exactly how many .. about 20) be receiving AVOD at every seat. You'll probably miss it though.

Maybe I will get lucky on my return flight in mid-June??

ac888yow · #**526** Posted: **Mar 16, 2010, 12:43 PM**

Anyway ...

In other news, Porter continues to unofficially hub-ify Ottawa by launching YTZ-YOW-YQM (Moncton) in the summer. Don't know exact dates yet.

PD247 YOW0950 YQM1230
PD261 YOW1905 YQM2145

YowItaliano · #**527** Posted: **Mar 17, 2010, 4:50 PM**

Airport website shows that they are looking for bids for expanding the garage again.

Thank God!!!
I spent roughly 5 minutes (jan,2010) looking for a parking spot in the parking garage. To my surprise, even the roof was almost full as this was the only spots available.

adam-machiavelli · #**528** Posted: **Mar 17, 2010, 5:38 PM**

Oh my god! You spent five minutes looking for parking. That's a whole 5 minutes of your life you'll never get back.

Give me a break! Those parking expansion funds should go to extending the O-train to the terminal.

jcollins · #**529** Posted: **Mar 17, 2010, 5:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

Oh my god! You spent five minutes looking for parking. That's a whole 5 minutes of your life you'll never get back.

Give me a break! Those parking expansion funds should go to extending the O-train to the terminal.

Yes! And if they have money after that, then use it to expand the parking facilities. At the end of the day they will have to grow as the airport grows, but having proper transit access is a must for now.

YowItaliano · #**530** Posted: **Mar 17, 2010, 6:28 PM**

Dont get me wrong!!! I would love to have Otrain service to the airport however, most people would rather drive to the airport with all their luggage instead of dragging it on buses and trains. Heck, even business people who travel for the day(no luggage) still would rather drive and park.
Until we have a GOOD FAST east-west rail system connecting to the Otrain system I doubt money will be spent connecting rail to the airport.
What time would you leave Kanata on a bus to connect to the Otrain at Bayview to reach the airport????Most of us leave on early morning flights(6-8 am)
Look for more and more parking spaces to continue.

jcollins · #**531** Posted: **Mar 17, 2010, 6:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by YowItaliano

Dont get me wrong!!! I would love to have Otrain service to the airport however, most people would rather drive to the airport with all their luggage instead of dragging it on buses and trains. Heck, even business people who travel for the day(no luggage) still would rather drive and park.
Until we have a GOOD FAST east-west rail system connecting to the Otrain system I doubt money will be spent connecting rail to the airport.
What time would you leave Kanata on a bus to connect to the Otrain at Bayview to reach the airport????Most of us leave on early morning flights(6-8 am)
Look for more and more parking spaces to continue.

I think you're right about that. I just think they SHOULD extend it rather than expanding the garage.

ac888yow · #**532** Posted: **Mar 17, 2010, 7:32 PM**

I LOL (to put it kindly) at the suggestion that the airport authority should re-direct funds and PAY to have the O-Train serve the airport.

Let's see. Pay tens of millions of dollars for something not needed or desired. Sounds like an idea a government-run agency would hatch.

jcollins · #**533** Posted: **Mar 17, 2010, 9:01 PM**

Ya my opinion was probably worded wrong. I don't think the airport should pay for the OTrain extension, I just meant it was a better spending idea than the garage, if it was one or the other

That being said, the extension needs to happen

adam-machiavelli · #**534** Posted: **Mar 17, 2010, 9:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac888yow

I LOL (to put it kindly) at the suggestion that the airport authority should re-direct funds and PAY to have the O-Train serve the airport.

Let's see. Pay tens of millions of dollars for something not needed or desired. Sounds like an idea a government-run agency would hatch.

Just because YOU don't need it or desire it doesn't means others don't either. There's plenty of demand for reliable, comfortable, and cheap travel to the airport by public transit. Unfortunately, certain politicians and taxi firms think otherwise. Additionally, a good quality transit connection will generate its own demand.

d_jeffrey · #**535** Posted: **Mar 18, 2010, 2:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac888yow

2) What 'others' want is irrelevant in this argument. I gave you a dose of reality by informing you that the airport authority doesn't need or want the O-Train after you idiotically suggested that they, a private entity, allocate their own, non-government subsidized funds to develop a CIVIC infrastructure instead of expanding THEIR infrastructure, the parking garage. They would love it if 100% of people using the airport drove there and parked in their garage, and O-Train at the airport would serve only to cut into their lucrative parking revenues.

I realize these "business-y" concepts are sometimes tough to grasp, but I hope that clears it up for you. Now run along.

Or do like Vancouver and soon-to-be Montréal (

), make the Airport authority recoup their costs by charging a premium on every transit ticket sold? Is it businessy enough?

adam-machiavelli · #**536** Posted: **Mar 18, 2010, 3:45 AM**

Regardless of perceived interests in what the airport authority currently does or does not want (of course it doesn't want anything that reduces parking revenue -that doesn't mean the City must give in to their greed though), one of the most fundamental nodes in a mass transit network is other modes of transport.

Brandon716 · #**537** Posted: **Mar 18, 2010, 4:09 PM**

If anyone has a viewpoint, please represent it respectfully and don't resort to personal attacks.

RTWAP · #**538** Posted: **Mar 19, 2010, 6:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

Oh my god! You spent five minutes looking for parking. That's a whole 5 minutes of your life you'll never get back.

Give me a break! Those parking expansion funds should go to extending the O-train to the terminal.

I'd rather have more parking than O-Train access. The only times I use the airport, I'm either using a cab, we're dropping someone off (on the departure level ramp) or we're picking someone up (parking and waiting inside).

I can see the attraction of train service to/from the airport for visitors, but until Ottawa is hosting a major event like and Expo or an Olympics or something, I don't think we'll see it.

jcollins · #**539** Posted: **Mar 19, 2010, 6:59 PM**

Ya but it's also nice, if you lived along the o train not to have to pay for parking or pay for a cab, just take a quick ride and then you're there.

jeremy_haak · #**540** Posted: **Mar 19, 2010, 7:11 PM**

If you're taking a cab now, would you take the train in the future? I don't really see how the train would be that much of an improvement over the existing bus service. It's basically a prestige thing, and considering the passenger forecasts I've seen for extending LRT to the airport, there has to be a better reason then that.