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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2007, 1:56 AM
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Originally Posted by TWAK View Post
there are areas in the burbs that seem to be 24 hours, but are not considered "urban" on this forum. Like for example, that place up in natomas with the wal mart and all that. It's busy all day long, and housing is close by...but it is still considered not urban or vibrant because of zoning? And same goes for arden, seemed always packed, a variety of people. The area that I am in, greenhaven/south pocket, has a strip mall in the middle of all the housing and it is active till later at night. That can be considered urban, or no?
"Vibrant" is a subjective term, and not at all limited to a city's core. You can definitely find shopping centers in Granite Bay or Greenhaven that are bustling with activity for 14 hours a day. But what sets those areas apart from the urban form are the large parking lots required to support the patrons, and the 6-8 lane wide streets they use to get there. Sure you have a select few that are close enough to walk to the stores, but you need only look at the orientation of the stores to figure how the majority access these shopping centers. Most stores are inward oriented with their backs to the streets and sidewalks (if there are sidewalks), while the store front faces the parking lot. In fact the term "shopping center" perfectly describes the suburban land use model, and its segregation by usage.

Suburban areas like Greenhaven and Arden are also very well established. When you have areas that are almost entirely built out, developments begin to abut each other. But that's a product of many years of growth, and not of urban design. In fact, when these different uses begin to run into each other, it's often the base of bitter disputes between neighborhoods, developers and businesses.

Sacramento's grid was created to be compact, dense, and walkable - "human scale". Short blocks and tight streets were a form based idea that allowed for easy pedestrian travel and efficient public transit. A product of a compact streetscape is dense, vertical development that often holds retail, office and residential all on the same block. These are just some examples of the model that people refer to as "urban".
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2007, 5:35 AM
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Sorry to stray from topic, but I just wanted to share that I'm in Denver this weekend, and this city kicks ass. Very walkable. Cool outdoor mall (16th Street), awesome urban neighborhoods (e.g., LoDo), and great night life! In fact, I'm heading out again in a minute. Later!

I agree, Denver is an awesome city (people often describe it as a city that "should" be on the west coast in terms of attitude, politics, and development styles). After living here now for almost 2 years, I've been able to experience it first hand. One of the most dense, vibrant, "ahead of its time" cities I've been to. That being said, one thing that gets me excited is that I see what Sacramento is attempting to do now and it is taking the same steps that cities like Denver and San Diego did 10-15 years ago. If this momentum continues, it's not long before Sac is up in those ranks also. In fact, being here in a city that gets things done (Denver) makes me love Sacramento even more because I can visualize the potential of what it can and will become.
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2007, 12:49 AM
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Just out of curiousity, what is the murder total so far this year? I know there was a spurt in January. But, since then, it seems to have been fairly quiet. Anyone know?
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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2007, 1:42 AM
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City, County and Metro

hmmmm where did those numbers go!
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  #25  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2007, 6:03 AM
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Critical Mass

Some friends of mine are organizing a Critical Mass ride this Friday at Fremont Park. I know many people have qualms with CM but knowing the organizers of this one I'm confident it will be fun and respectful. I'll be going. It starts at Fremont Park (16th and p st.) this Friday at 5pm. We'll be leaving at 5:30'ish.
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  #26  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2007, 4:14 PM
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There's a high possibility that a very high luxury car dealership combo is going to open up in the Fulton Car Dealer area around May/June or this summer. Something not seen in Sacramento but in San Francisco and Los Angeles.

Yay :-) I'm not supposed to tell since I heard this from someone else but I can't keep it secret.
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  #27  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2007, 11:38 PM
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Personally I could care less about a new car dealership -luxury or not

BTW this afternoon in Midtown, next to my apartment, a young woman was riding a bike and in the crosswalk when she was hit by f'ker in a SUV speeding down one of our many one-way high-speed corridors. I hope she's alright but I undertand she's pretty banged-up. The @#%$&$ fled the scene on foot leaving his SUV behind. As my roommate told it the guy didn't express one ounce of concern for the victim and was actually mad at her for riding a bike in the first place. Welcome to Sacramento -home of the self-entitled as'hole suburbanite.
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Last edited by ozone; Apr 27, 2007 at 11:52 PM.
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  #28  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 12:05 AM
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oh that is ridiculous! poor lady, i hope she's alright. and i hope mister wreckless driver suffers!
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  #29  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Trojan View Post
There's a high possibility that a very high luxury car dealership combo is going to open up in the Fulton Car Dealer area around May/June or this summer. Something not seen in Sacramento but in San Francisco and Los Angeles.

Yay :-) I'm not supposed to tell since I heard this from someone else but I can't keep it secret.
I think it's cool.
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  #30  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 12:29 AM
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^I love cars. but only the ones that run on good ol' gasoline. None of these battery-operated pieces of crap.
Ozone's story sounds horrible, and if true, is a brutal crime. But I think hit and runs are far less common than he would like us to believe.

One thing I do see A LOT of is cyclists running stop signs through midtown.
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  #31  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ozone View Post
a young woman was riding a bike and in the crosswalk when she was hit by f'ker in a SUV speeding down one of our many one-way high-speed corridors.
question: are cyclists supposed to be riding their bikes in the crosswalk? If you're on a bike, I thought you were supposed to be obeying the traffic laws as if you were in a car. I always thought that if you use a crosswalk, you're supposed to get off the bike and walk it. You're not even supposed to be riding your bike on the sidewalks are you? I thought crosswalks were just "extensions" of the sidewalk that cross the street...
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  #32  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan View Post
There's a high possibility that a very high luxury car dealership combo is going to open up in the Fulton Car Dealer area around May/June or this summer. Something not seen in Sacramento but in San Francisco and Los Angeles.

Yay :-) I'm not supposed to tell since I heard this from someone else but I can't keep it secret.

I personally think that's great to hear... more taxs for the city and more
sweet rides rolling around town
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  #33  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 1:36 AM
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Originally Posted by brandon12 View Post
^I love cars. but only the ones that run on good ol' gasoline. None of these battery-operated pieces of crap.
Ozone's story sounds horrible, and if true, is a brutal crime. But I think hit and runs are far less common than he would like us to believe.

One thing I do see A LOT of is cyclists running stop signs through midtown.
I hope you are joking about the gas only thing because personally think is immoral to send people off to the killing fields and deplete our national funds so I can get cheap gas when there are better ways to do things.

And I never said that hit-and-runs were that common. But I will say that there are tons of near misses. Yes cyclists do run stop signs and that's a problem and they should be ticketed. Humm.. what would hurt more if it hit you..a bike or a SUV. Give me a break about the woes of drivers. If you think it's not so bad then I think you must not walk or ride a bike as much I do. Just other day a guy stoped his car and yelled obscenities at me for daring to cross at a crosswalk and god forbid slow him down.

I don't hate cars and I like to drive but I realize that the roads are legally and historically not just for cars but I bet most people don't understand that. OK so I'm worked up over this..but damnit so many Americans are too complacent about everything unless it personally involves them. I don't know how it went down so I don't if she was crossing the street or on the side and was thrown into the crosswalk. And just for anyone's information bikes can ride on some of the sidewalks around town and there are usually signs that indicate that. For the most part cyclist use sidewalks because drivers are as'holes and don't see them and they don't want to get hit. Do you blame them? End of Rant.


BTW the cops arrested the as'hole who came back to the crime scene a couple of hours later to retrieve his stupid SUV thinking that everyone would be gone and the guy in an upstairs office called 911. I was talking to the cops just now and they said the victim is going to be OK. Everyone I've talked to tonight on my block about this incident said that the one-ways just encourage too high of speeds.

Sorry guys I do get emotional at times and I don't mean to make it personal..it's just my nature.
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Last edited by ozone; Apr 28, 2007 at 1:59 AM.
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  #34  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 1:40 AM
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I'm glad the person will be ok. And I'm glad the idiot was caught. what a moron.

And I personally can't see myself owning a battery car. But that's just my opinion.
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  #35  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 4:20 AM
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^I'm glad the lady is okay, what a terrible story, as I've had my share of near misses (on foot) and a good friend nearly killed in that kind of hit-and run-bike-versus-big car scenario.

I hope she sues him back to the stone age.
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  #36  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 5:39 AM
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On a lighter note…..
I was out earlier this evening walking from my house in Midtown to the Capitol Park and down the Capitol Mall. It was beautiful out and the light was just right. The glass on the new US Bank Tower already looks very cool even though it’s only up a couple floors and the Federal Building across the street is completely re-glassed. I can’t wait until all the new projects on CM are finished. I noticed that there were very few people on the street -compared to Midtown.

I was thinking that CM is Sacramento’s Champs Elysées and something needs to be done to improve the street. There are really two parts to the Capitol Mall. Between 7th and 10th totally belongs to the capitol district and between 3rd and 7th is Sacramento’s financial district. I think the mall should be re-designed differently in each part.

The best visual on the whole street is of the State Capitol.. BUT the best view of the capitol is in the middle of the grassy medium so that no one on foot gets the best view. If they could reduce the two traffic lanes, east of 7th Street, to one and add sidewalks, benches and trees along the edge of the central medium so that people could walk up the center of the mall towards the capitol (like the Mall in DC) then that would make it a dramatic experience on foot. There are 3 grassy nooks outside of the state buildings and these should be the place for new memorials and monuments and not Capitol Park. That would also make the area more interesting.

The traffic circle in front of the Capitol could be revamped and the parking removed -all those parked cars really spoil the whole scene. It should have more dramatic fountain that is up-lighted, wider sidewalks and benches and the twin buildings have special lighting. It could turn the circle into a real civic gathering place. A traffic lane should remain around the circle to allow access to 10th Street but since it would be narrow the traffic would move at a slow pace and it could be closed off for special events. Maybe a low stage that mimics the square planter across the street could be added for speakers. That way more events/protests/rallies could be in the circle and off the lawn in front of the capitol which can get pretty torn-up and look ratty.

The area west of 7th Street is mostly commercial so maybe cars should be allowed to park on the street. That would generate more activity at the street level. They could do this by reducing the central medium between 3rd and 7th and adding another line of trees along the side of the street, in-between the parking spaces, so that cars wouldn’t be that visible.

I was also thinking that any high-end shops would be best on the Capitol Mall and not in the very middle-class DP or K Street. There are plenty of spaces on the ground floor of the office buildings for high-end shops. I was even thinking that if the Aura isn’t built (I know we all would prefer a high-rise on the site but IF that isn’t possible right now) then why couldn’t a Nordstrom go in the space instead? Nordstrom could hire a star archtect to give the store a stunning design and make it a real landmark on the mall. It could have a nice couryard fronting CM with a sidewalk cafe. If the store had a really awesome design it would attract people who would normally shop in the burbs just because the experience would be so special.

Anyway those are some of thoughts about CM tonight.
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Last edited by ozone; Apr 28, 2007 at 5:40 PM.
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  #37  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 7:15 AM
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I like your ideas!

It really would put more pedestrians on the mall. I especially like the idea of putting statues on the mall, improving the fountain, and putting benches and walkways down the mall.

However, I dont like the idea of putting trees down the middle of the mall between 3rd and 7th. I think they would block views of the capitol.
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  #38  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 10:12 AM
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did anybody see a crowd of bicyclists riding through downtown and midtown today? we had critical mass today and though it was small it was a decent turn-out by sac standards. about 40 bicyclists sharing the roads...we only took one lane so drivers were barely inconvenienced. it was right after rush-hour so it was basically midtowners reclaiming their roads from the mostly gone suburbanites. we had a blast.



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  #39  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 4:49 PM
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I like your ideas!

It really would put more pedestrians on the mall. I especially like the idea of putting statues on the mall, improving the fountain, and putting benches and walkways down the mall.

However, I dont like the idea of putting trees down the middle of the mall between 3rd and 7th. I think they would block views of the capitol.
Thanks. I'm a landscape designer so I'm naturally interested in such things.

I was thinking that if the trees were placed on the outer edge of walkway-basically where the left lanes are now, then it really wouldn't block the view of the capitol. Plus I was only suggesting a central walk between 7th and 10th not 3rd and 7th and even that would still have a grassy center between the side-walks. There are lots of narrow growing trees but I was thinking something like alternating palms and orange trees (which can be kept narrow by shearing) would be very California looking and after all since this is California's capitol I think it should look like it belongs in this state. This two-block section would be kind of like a western extention of Capitol Park and a California version of the Mall in DC.

West of 7th I'm suggesting that there not be a central walk and in fact the medium be narrowed even more and trees added to mini bulb-outs in-between the parking spaces between the existing sidewalks and road. Other obvious things like new ornamental street and traffic lights, brick crosswalks from all four corners at each intersection need to be included.
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Last edited by ozone; Apr 28, 2007 at 5:33 PM.
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  #40  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 5:38 PM
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Thanks.
I was thinking that if the trees were placed on the outer edge of walkway-basically where the left lanes are now, then it would really wouldn't block the veiw of the capitol. Plus I was only suggesting a central walk between 7th and 10th not 3rd and 7th and even that would still have a grassy center between the side-walks. There are lots of narrow growing trees but I was thinking something like alternating palms and orange trees (which can be kept narrow by shearing) would be very California looking and after all since this is California's capitol I think it should look like it belongs in this state. This two-block section would be kind of like a western extention of Capitol Park and kinda like a California version of the Mall in DC.

My idea is that on one half of the mall the cars get the best view and closer you get to the capitol the pedestrians get the best view. I'm a landscape designer so I'm naturally interested in such things.
Now you are talking that sounds good.

As long as you keep the Citrus trees short, you know that they would be the only green trees in the Winter, too. Maybe crepe myrtles too, keep them small or camellia trees/bushess, they keep their flowers for a long time, or japanese maples, again keep them stunted and small some how.
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