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  #281  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2008, 6:48 PM
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^That's probably true, but regardless of how monoculturally pious the Saudis appear to be when viewed through the popular culture lense, I'd say it's no more (or less) appalling than any other historic building being demolished for the sake of a new resort-hotel in any other city in the world. . . I suspect economic - rather than historical and religeous allegances - had more of a part to play in what happened here. . .

. . .
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  #282  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2008, 7:29 PM
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I'm second generation Anglo-German Muslim, so it infuriates me to see my history being lost for star bucks, and Top shop.

Also the fact that the holy sanctuary's skyline will be dominated by such ugly structures.

Horrendous, for me to even begin to think about because of the hopelessness of the situation. I would ask readers who admire architecture on this forum to bear this in mind when considering whats going on in Mecca and Medina.
     
     
  #283  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2008, 9:05 PM
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^I don't think anyone will argue with you on that one. . . but let's keep it on topic. . .

. . .
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  #284  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2008, 9:55 PM
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Fair enough Tom, although I don't think that the kind of development taking place here can be disconnected with the wider development of the city, and the preservation of historic sites.

On a more positive note Zaha Hadid, and Sir Norman Foster have been asked along with 18 architects to look at the redevelopment of the City, so perhaps there is some hope.

Sir Norman Foster has a distinctive aesthetic, his buildings in London including a sky scraper are iconic. Zaha Hadid is one of my favorite architects. and belongs to the Deconstructavist school, like Gehry.

So it's pretty interesting her focus will be on looking at the mosques expansion. To facilitate 3 Million, thats a difficult task to accomplish with the current construction.
     
     
  #285  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2008, 10:49 PM
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Tom, this is on topic and is very important to this site so dont erase it, it will answer all of our questions as to why they are destroying historical sites in Mecca and other areas.

Saudi Arabia: Wahhabis Destroy Heritage Of Mecca

The UK Independent today published photographs from the Islamic Heritage Foundation which show clearly how the Wahhabi ideology, espoused by the House of Saud, the Saudi royal family, is destroying sites which are not only precious to Muslims, but also valuable for archeological reasons, and as part of world heritage.

The picture above shows how the Grand Mosque at Mecca (left) is becoming overshadowed by rising skyscrapers, including the Zam Zam tower, being constructed by the bin Laden family.

The religious zealots of Wahhabism do not cherish sacred sites, as they believe pilgrimage to such places encourages heretical and idolatrous worship. The Saudi religious authorities have been engaged in wholesale destruction of historical places for decades now.

In 1998, the grave of Amina bint Wahb, the prophet Mohammed's mother, was bulldozed and doused in gasoline. Irfan Ahmed al-Alawi, who chairs the Islamic Heritage Foundation, said that despite petitions from thousands within the ummah, the Saudis went ahead regardless.

The birthplace of the prophet Mohammed came under threat 50 years ago, when the House of Saud decided to build a library over the site. The architect then persuaded the authorities to allow him to preserve the remains beneath the library. Now the authorities want to concrete over the site and turn it into a car park.

The house of Khadijah, the prophet's first wife, was demolished and replaced with public lavatories. The house of Abu Bakr, the friend of Mohammed and father of AIsha who first compiled the verses of the Koran, was demolished to make way for the Hilton hotel.

Lay people, and in some cases even US senators could be forgiven for thinking that the House of Saud has been the guardian of the two holy places for time immemorial. In fact, it is only 80 years since the tribal chieftain Ibn Saud occupied Mecca and Medina. The House of Saud has been bound to Wahhabism since the 18th century religious reformer Mohamed Ibn Abdul-Wahab signed a pact with Mohammed bin Saud in 1744. Wahab's warrior zealots helped to conquer a kingdom for the tribal chieftains. The House of Saud got its wealth and power, and the clerics got the vehicle of state they needed to spread their fundamentalist ideology around the world. The ruler of this fledgling kingdom needed the legitimacy afforded by declaring himself " custodian of the two holy places".

The Independent states that as early as 1929, Wahhabists began to censor who could visit the Ka'aba, and what ceremonies could be performed. Egyptian pilgrims were prevented from visiting to carry out their Mahmal ceremonies, and at least 30 were killed in that year.


There are now less than 20 structures remaining which date from the time of the prophet Mohammed. Above is the scene of destruction when the mutawi or "religious police", visible in red headgear, supervised the demolition of the ancient Mosque of abu-Qubais. This mosque, built 1,200 years ago, stood on the site where Ali-Oraid, grandson of Mohammed, had lived. Now it is covered by the King's palace.

The picture above show all that remains of the grave of Mohammed's wife Al Baqi. Destroyed 50 years ago, the mutawi guard the site to prevent pilgrims placing flowers or praying by the ruins.

The mountain pictured is the al-Nour or "Mountain of Light". A cave is situated on this mountain, which was where Mohammed received his first "communications" which became the first verses of the Koran. The Independent states: "Hardline clerics want it destroyed to stop pilgrims visiting. At the foot of the hill there is a Wahhabi fatwa: " The Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) did not permit us to climb on to this hill, not to pray here, not to touch stones, and tie knots on trees..."

The Saudis happily spent money subsidising the Taliban in Afghanistan. When the Taliban blew up the World Heritage site of Bamiyan, home of the giant Buddhas carved into cliffs, the world was aghast. The current destruction, which is encouraged by the House of Saud is an equally disgraceful activity, and Muslims and non-Muslims alike should similarly be aghast at such wanton vandalism.

Article from http://www.westernresistance.com/blo...es/001966.html
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  #286  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2008, 4:50 AM
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Hideous, kitschy, tasteless Big Ben rip-off with a scimitar on the top.
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  #287  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2008, 2:14 AM
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In a way I understand the need for such aggressive expansion in Mecca, even at a regrettable cost of historic structures. As worldwide - and Muslim - population has undergone an unprecedented population boom in the last 50 years, it is only natural that the city is becoming less and less able to cope with the ever-increasing stream of pilgrims. What was for hundreds of years a privilege for a few thousand that could afford the time and difficulty of travel to the sacred site, has now become easily available to the new generation consisting of hundreds of millions of believers, many of whom, even if underprivileged, have the means to save enough for a plane ticket for that trip of a lifetime. The only way Mecca could deal with this unprecedented influx is either abolish this centuries-long sacred traditions of built on an unprecedented scale to accomodate new conditions.
     
     
  #288  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2008, 6:05 PM
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Erm..there are plans for a HUGE expansion.



Yeah..it looks like dominoes. And crap.
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  #289  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2008, 7:36 PM
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Wtf? This is fake, right?

Sorry to say this but it reminds me of some German plans some 65 years ago.
     
     
  #290  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2008, 8:38 PM
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I have a feeling that's not a real proposal or just a dream proposal.
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  #291  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2008, 8:39 PM
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That is horrible.
     
     
  #292  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2008, 12:36 AM
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I was speaking to one of my employee's and he stated that only a Muslim is allowed to visit Mecca and Medina. Is this true? I know this is a long shot but can a Jew (me) visit Mecca and this project?
     
     
  #293  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2008, 12:46 AM
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^^ Nope
     
     
  #294  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2008, 8:07 AM
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Yes, only Muslims are allowed into Mecca, but its the King's decision not a religious one.

BTW, that plan is awesome. I like it, it would allow pilgrims easier access to the mosque. Unfortunately, it does look a little awkward, wish they would make the buildings look a little less generic.
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  #295  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2008, 3:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pimp View Post
I was speaking to one of my employee's and he stated that only a Muslim is allowed to visit Mecca and Medina. Is this true? I know this is a long shot but can a Jew (me) visit Mecca and this project?
just dress up as a muslim and bring your quran
     
     
  #296  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2008, 4:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pimp View Post
I was speaking to one of my employee's and he stated that only a Muslim is allowed to visit Mecca and Medina. Is this true? I know this is a long shot but can a Jew (me) visit Mecca and this project?
All you have to do is tell them youre a muslim. They cant prove you arent one. Its really easy to get into Mecca. Just buy some of the traditional muslim garb and you will be golden. Just dont say anything about other religions and nobody will ask any questions.
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  #297  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2008, 6:57 PM
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Originally Posted by malec View Post
^^ Nope
Thanks... I didn't think so. Still a nice project.
     
     
  #298  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2008, 7:19 PM
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That expansion wouldn't look too bad IMO, if they only placed those
high rises a bit less systematic, and with more variation.
     
     
  #299  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2008, 9:53 PM
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Somehow I don't think impersonating a Muslim in a Muslin country is a good idea.
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  #300  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2008, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
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Erm..there are plans for a HUGE expansion.



Yeah..it looks like dominoes. And crap.
Repost plz.
     
     
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