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  #2041  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2011, 9:25 PM
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Because there's two fewer mechanical floors in the final design, and mechanical floors in this building are up to 27 feet tall. You can see where they eliminated them, right above the podium. 3 floors in the place of 5.
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  #2042  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2011, 9:35 PM
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this made me depressed and i just got over the design change.....


http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2522/t302n.jpg
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  #2043  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2011, 9:43 PM
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STR, did they also remove the diagonal braces on the sides of the building, or is that one of the details you have yet to add to the new model?
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  #2044  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2011, 10:17 PM
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I added them after that render. Should have something with the braces up sometime tonight.

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Originally Posted by SkyscrapersOfNewYork View Post
this made me depressed and i just got over the design change.....
I take it then you found no error in my floor counts or anything?
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  #2045  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2011, 10:39 PM
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Unhappy

Looks like the fin design on top has be slightly dumbed down...or is that also to be edited?
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  #2046  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2011, 10:48 PM
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I only did a basic rough draft of the roof area. So it will look better than that.

EDIT: Here's the updates, as promised.





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Last edited by STR; Jul 23, 2011 at 1:51 AM.
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  #2047  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2011, 2:29 AM
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I'm guessing that if they shaved a few floors off the top, the last (top) X bracing piece won't fit because it will just go over the top of the building. And if they tried to re-size it will look funny because the last piece is smaller and wider than the rest below. As a result they removed the X bracing all together?
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  #2048  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2011, 2:47 AM
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Nope. X-bracing was removed (probably) to save on labor costs, since x-braced tubes almost always use less structural material than verendeel truss tubes. The extra floors were likely removed because they found out during the design process that they didn't need two extra floors of HVAC's, transformers and what-have-you. There's the same number of office floors, and because of the way the new floor plates are shaped, there's slightly more office space in this iteration (~600sqft per floor x 53 office floors=32,000 more sqft).
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  #2049  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2011, 3:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STR View Post
I added them after that render. Should have something with the braces up sometime tonight.



I take it then you found no error in my floor counts or anything?
Ya,it seems that you sir are correct.
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  #2050  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2011, 3:14 AM
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Hmmmm I see. So if that's true, then wouldn't they have removed the side "zig-zag" bracing as well? Oops, I hope I didn't jinxed it. Hopefully this will be the last "shave" they will do on this tower or any other WTC towers. It's not like I have any problem with these cutbacks, though.
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  #2051  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2011, 4:08 AM
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Ugh. The last thing these projects need are more boring, un-detailed, single pane curtain walls.
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  #2052  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2011, 4:39 AM
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Taken July 22, 2011 from One Liberty Plaza 30th floor

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  #2053  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2011, 4:48 AM
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This building is really 'nothing' now IMO. I mean, the base has been destroyed too and turned into a bland glass box with none of that eye-catching detail that we saw before. That is just worse than the height decrease and the removal of the bracing.

Here we have another typical NY box here folks, nothing to see here, move along now.... They took a fantastic Rogers design and NY'ified it. How charming. Certainly, NY is steadfastly in the 20th century in terms of architectural design and nothing recently has proven that false.
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  #2054  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2011, 5:24 AM
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I just have to say this. Guys, all that has changed is the removal of Xs - Xs people - from the exterior of the skyscraper, and suddenly it has gone from "majestic" and "brilliant" to suddenly something that isn't even worht building. It looks almost EXACTLY the same. Maybe it's SLIGHTLY shorter. So what? You won't even be able to tell when it's built because there won't be a picture of the older version next to it! It has always been a box with offsets, ok? Always. If you've failed to notice that, then you guys have you heads so far up your architecturally tight asses that you have missed the obvious. These skyscrapers have never, ever been things to write home about. They've ALWAYS looked like any other corporate skyscraper in America, only a lot bigger. I'm really having a hard time understanding how ornamentation made this building THAT much better than it is now. Just be happy that this site is being rebuilt with some decent skyscrapers that are going to re-establish NY's skyline...my goodness.
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  #2055  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2011, 5:28 AM
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Thank you STR for deciding to model the redesign and showing your work. I look forward to the progress as your renders gives us an opportunity to study and appreciate the designs in a way that is only matched by the real deal!

At first this tower was my favorite because of the X braces and it's "too much going on" aspects. I was not very pleased about the redesign at first, but even though the best part of this tower was removed, it still is my favorite. Now I see Tower 3 as being a point of transition between the exotic and complex design of 2WTC and the simple design of 4WTC. In my eyes this only helps solidify 3WTC's purpose in the overall design of the site.....but that's just my opinion. Wish the could've kept the X bracing, but I am content with the new design

^ Edit: I remember a bunch of people couldn't stand the X-bracing at first. People didn't like it because it "did too much" and the bracing was too "Chicago". Funny how when you see something enough you start to come around to in down the road. :lol:
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  #2056  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2011, 8:39 AM
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The tower definitely would not be 1170 total without the spires, if the original height was 1240 and you subtracted 54 feet (27 feet per floor that would leave 1186)


I think it's more logical that the roof is at 1170 but there is either no spire or they've been shortened, or the final height is 1270.


Otherwise this whole redevelopment is even stupider than it was before...
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  #2057  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2011, 10:21 AM
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It looks sort of stumpy now like it's too wide for its shorter height. I can't say that I'd notice it once it's built but it is sort of bumming when designs have to sacrifice details to save some money. Welp, it is what it is.
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  #2058  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2011, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STR View Post
Like I said before, I think they've chopped the height down to 1,170' total. I'm tired of counting floors and measuring proportions, so if someone else can reconcile this official render from RRS with a 1,240' height, I'd be curious to hear your reasoning.
No need. All official numbers will be released or confirmed in time. We're not going to start a whole new discussion/debate on what the height numbers are, we've been down that road enough times already, an no need for anyone to get overly excited or annoyed.

The tower looks a little "naked" without the x bracings, but I'd rather have the tower without it get built rather than look at renderings of a tower with them that doesn't get built.



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Originally Posted by Patapsco View Post
Taken July 22, 2011 from One Liberty Plaza 30th floor

Thank you sir.
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  #2059  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2011, 1:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
The tower definitely would not be 1170 total without the spires, if the original height was 1240 and you subtracted 54 feet (27 feet per floor that would leave 1186)


I think it's more logical that the roof is at 1170 but there is either no spire or they've been shortened, or the final height is 1270.
First, as a point of clarification, it appears that 3 floors were removed. 2 mechanical floors near the podium were removed, plus one more near the crown which appears to have been an office floor of typical 13'6" height. If you look at the description as cut & pasted in post 1 of this thread, it talks about 54 office floors. The current page only mentions 53 office floors. The other point that I don't think I made clear, was that it's not just simple subtraction. The trading floors are a bit lower (except for the top trading floor, which is a bit higher likely to house the setback roof).

Given that we know the height of the floors are 13'6" (the same as 2, 4, and 7 WTC), there's no way I can see a way to bridge the ~80' gap. If you, or anyone else, has information or sees something specific that I missed, let me know. 1170 total makes more sense to me right now than 12xx total. I could be wrong here, but that's what I'm going with on the model right now.

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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
No need. All official numbers will be released or confirmed in time. We're not going to start a whole new discussion/debate on what the height numbers are, we've been down that road enough times already, an no need for anyone to get overly excited or annoyed.
Unlike some of the other buildings on-site, I have never had insider info on Tower 3. So I'm really trying to find alternative hypothesizes to bridge the gap that's shown up. While I think, so long as we keep it civil, it's fine here, I'll defer to you on this. If anyone has more input, I invite them to post in my WTC/NYC model thread. No one really cares (I think) if that thread gets ruined or derailed.
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Last edited by STR; Jul 27, 2011 at 3:42 AM.
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  #2060  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2011, 4:16 PM
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Hopefully the money they saved here means that Tower 2 will be built without any cost-cutting measures... whenever that is. I can wait until 2017. No hurry.
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