South Waterfront News

[tworivers]

I like these shiny renderings too, but I think the uniform height limits are a big mistake. The risk of sterility looms large, and I'm afraid the area is going to suffer from a built-in lack of the poetry of jumbled urbanity.

I was in Seattle a few weeks ago for the first time in 3 years (travelling by train and bike, staying at the Ace), and I was struck by the density and vibrancy of their downtown. It makes Portland look like a sleepy college town. Throw in the boldness and brilliance of the new library, and PDX looks positively second string, and with a bad case of smugness to boot. I don't want to sound overly negative, but it made me suspicious of the ability of the local economy to absorb so much mixed-use dvlpt on the edges of downtown AND fill in the cbd, which is not nearly dense enough and full of parking lots and parking garages. And our riverfront is desperately in need of activation (Potter, you're fired!) beyond jogging and biking.

Sorry to go off topic, but seeing these renderings just made me think of all the density and verticality these buildings could have added **in my ideal world** to downtown, and how overstretched and awkward the westside of the river looks to me.

[zilfondel]

^ Yes, our dense developments are definitely quite spread out. If they were all focused within one district, or even in downtown itself, it would have made a much larger impact in the central city by concentrating all that new housing, retail, and activity.

As it stands, however, is that downtown is still relatively affordable... I suppose that makes it viable for smaller locally based businesses. Our downtown isn't as shiny... and I'm not so sure that this is a bad thing. In any case, there is definitely steady interest by landowners and developers to continue building in our downtown, albeit at a slower pace than Seattle. Yet Seattle is also larger, denser, and wealthier... who knows what P-town's real estate/development market will be like in 10 years?

[Dougall5505]

does anyone know whats going on with this little area of the meriweather?

It looks like a dog park now, but on the map of the development it looks like it is supposed to be made into another retail building or something

[cab]

Portland architects love affair with the square. I guess they felt the design wasn't enough of a box. That picture of Vancouver is telling, notice that the architects in BC not only play with height, but shape. Those building actually have rounded edges, nooks, balconies at various location. Portlands building tend to be square, uniform and missing a sense of location. You have this meandering river out front, but the buildings are lined up like soldiers. There is no sense of location to the development. Its good to see the john Ross, and some of the newer developments coming on that finally breaks away from the box approach, but they continue the cube farm feel by boxing the base of the buildings. I'm sure this has to due with the 200ft blocks forced on the area, but still, it would be nice if they could deviate just a bit from the square when they have opportunites like that small grass area in the Meriwether.

[pdxman]

Compared to seattle, san francisco and vancouver, portland is definitely second string.

[NJD]

Compared to seattle, san francisco and vancouver, portland is definitely second string.

Let's keep it that way. I love Portland. You couldn't pay me to live in Seattle or San Fran. Both are fun to visit, but they both have that gritty, dirty feel and the people are so cold and unfriendly (this is not necessarily a bad thing, some people like the grit and brashness). That is because they are cities. Portland is just a combination of a bunch of small towns and villages with a 1960s-1980s skyline built before Portland lost its competitiveness to the world economy. Seattle, SF and Vancouver all have geographically better locations to be port towns which is how the west coast developed over the last 100 years. You can also say that since Portland never burnt down as our neighbors have we have less downtown land worthy of development. I would rather have our slow, meandering style of development than large corporate players making all the towns shots.

If crazy development is all you want to see around you: move to dubai. But, you might find that that type of incredibly fast paced mega-project building makes for a pretty poor livability in the long run. I prefer Portland's more european, slow growth over time, feel than that of any other city in the US.

This is just my opinion, please do not take my words as an argument.

[Eagle rock]

I don’t think it’s fair to compare Portland with Seattle or Vancouver. Portland is much smaller then Seattle and even though we are comparable size to Vancouver, Vancouver is the equivalent of Chicago to Canada in prominence being the third largest city in the Country. I personally feel that San Francisco is in another league all together compared to Seattle and Vancouver.

I think Portland should be compared to Denver, Sacramento, Charlotte, and other midsize, fast growing cities. I think that we compare incredibly favorable in terms of urban development. I also think that while the architecture is lacking on many urban projects in Portland (although this is changing with Holst and other firms). I think the street level presence of our infill buildings and there contributions they make to a walkable urban environment are much more successful then Seattle and even San Francisco. I think this can be attributed to Portland’s planning and design codes as well as the fact that developers in Portland understand cities and how to really do mixed use right.

[tworivers]

You all have great points, thanks. Just for the record, I do NOT want crazy development all around me. I also love Portland and have no intention of pulling up my deep roots and going anywhere, let alone a soulless nightmare like Dubai.

I definitely had some architecture-envy in Seattle, sorry, and was surprised by the vitality everywhere we went. Just the playfulness alone of the interior of the library seemed like a reflection of a few things Portland could use. Also, for the record, everyone we interacted with was exceedingly friendly, and we biked all over the city (downtown-Fremont-Wallingford-U-district-Greenlake-Capital Hill) and were not honked at, passed too close, or told to "get on the sidewalk!" once. This despite an obvious auto-centrism in general. That said a lot to me, probably because I was worried about what our experience was going to be like. We also walked a lot. Overall, I guess the trip made me want to re-think some of the mythologies I've bought into regarding our two cities specifically, if that makes sense.

[PacificNW]

tworivers...your opinions are valid but not everyone is crazy about the central library in Seattle. (Ask many of the library patrons who actually have to use the facility). Also, be careful what you guys wish for....do you really want millions of more people downtown Portland? Seriously?

When the downtown transit mall and Macy's/hotel are completed (along with the other new tower/retail development coming on board) downtown Portland can hold its own when compared to other cities. You guys don't know how lucky you are to live in Portland...even with its problems.

[zilfondel]

This is currently the dog-pooping area.

[Dougall5505]

^right I know but according to this map it will be developed around 2008

I was just wondering if anyone had any info on it

[MarkDaMan]

^probably will just be a retail space. It would be nice to see something tight go there, even if it was one story.

[65MAX]

Originally Posted by zilfondel

Well, there are some lower-rise Vancouver condos lining the waterfront... right across from Granville Island, for instance.


pic taken by me, 5/8/05

Great pic, Z. You're right, the Strand does look like the foreground buildings here. Now if we can just get some 20-30 story towers on Parcels 3 & 8.....

[65MAX]

Originally Posted by pdxman

Compared to seattle, san francisco and vancouver, portland is definitely second string.

I wouldn't characterize Portland as "second string". In fact, Portland is in the Top 10 of just about every "best of" list from every magazine. Population and economic prowess are not the only determinants of what makes a city great. There are also factors like uniqueness, physically and culturally. Portland is nothing if not unique.

[sopdx]

Funny, I think the architecture in Seattle is horrific. When I look at the plans for buildings up there, I'm shocked. I hate how they are ruining capitol hill with suburban style cheap condos. Its about bigger, bigger, are we big yet? There is no public space downtown and it seems like a wall of gray monoliths - extremely corporate. The library might be playful, in a theme park sort of way, but it's relationship to the street is a disaster.

Second string? Who cares and what string are we talking about. Both Seattle and Vancouver are second string. I think the beauty of Portland that it really isn't in the competition, it's a losing game anyway.

[tworivers]

Ok, fair enough, I regret the "second string" part. I realize that it makes me sound like a "bigger is better" type, a mentality which I have never shared and have even argued against on this forum. In fact, the reason why I was originally drawn to this site had everything to do with the discussion of the general urban fabric and nothing to do with skyscrapers. I think I just felt somewhat humbled by my experience in Seattle, after writing many a paragraph like the first one in sopdx's comment, and expecting the worst from my bike trip. I think the reality is more complex than we Portlanders portray sometimes. Forget the hierarchy implicit in my original comment, I was just surprised by the street-level vitality and residential density of Seattle. Let's just leave it at that!

[NJD]

these are nice renderings, but I really hope those 2 towers on block 27 are placeholders... talk about minimalist architecture

[sopdx]

TVA has renderings of block 27 - not sure the status. I think the rendering above is pretty right on as to their detail.
http://www.tvaarchitects.com

[MarkDaMan]

^why are they showing block 27 in that rendering, which isn't set to be built until the 3rd phase, but they have a park like area on block 37 which IS scheduled in phase 2?

[NJD]

... ... at least the RI bridge will be in the way in the view from OMSI