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  #841  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 5:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Alliance View Post
You can ask for the global economy not to be collapsing...you know...to get a loan?
It was clear he meant that they had a great situation and the economy prevented the building from going through. But I always love some sarcasm to lighten my day up...
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  #842  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 6:53 AM
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I've thought for a long time that the City needs to make Canal raised between Lake and Kinzie. If that happened, then an elevated podium might be able to be integrated. I also think the City should make a bridge between Wolf Point and Canal. I always envisioned it over the railroad tracks going due west as an extension of the Mart Drive, but I guess it would make more sense to connect to Fulton since Fulton actually is a real street that connects to the grid already. That'd be a lot more than a pedestrian bridge, but both that area and Wolf Point would realistically need more more, better roadways to prevent total chaos - Kinzie by itself can't handle existing traffic, let alone new traffic generated by K station and this building and Wolf Point. At a minimum, the City will need to connect Clinton to Grand and turn at least one lane of the Orleans bridge southbound.
I don't necessarily see a need for all this infrastructure just for Wolf Point. People who insist on driving can come and go via the Ohio Feeder and Orleans>Hubbard>Kingsbury. People who take transit face a short walk or bus ride from Ogilvie and Union, and people who take CTA have an even shorter walk down Mart Drive (which needs a south pedestrian walkway).

In the long run, I like the idea of extending Clinton... in the long term, it could be extended as a grade-level riverfront drive to connect with Elston at Augusta. This would open up the entire riverfront for development... right now much of it is cut off by elevated bridge approaches. Of course, the city would first have to remove the PMD designation. Near-downtown properties are terrible for most industrial uses because of heavy traffic... it only makes sense for downtown-oriented industry like ready-mix concrete, self storage, and such.
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  #843  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by DonMendigo View Post
Really? Where did you see that at?

If so, that's great.
You can see the site plans and a few more details on the project's website.

http://www.chicagoriverpoint.com/

Full Fact Sheet here [PDF link]. (250 parking spaces for 850k sf)

Site Plan:


Canal St Level:



Plaza (Podium) Level:


-----

Looks fantastic and it will be a fine anchor for that end of the river. I would ask for more height and to reintroduce the 'swoop' near the roof (the straight line looks sorta clunky/VE'd), but overall I'm happy with it.
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  #844  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 12:14 PM
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^ I'm disappointed to find that much of the retail doesn't have sidewalk entrances.

What is this, 1984 again? I haven't seen a hoodlum in those parts in quite a while, tear down that wall!
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  #845  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 12:49 PM
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I thought this was SUPER dead? Huh. I hate all these riverfront "plazas". They're ugly. Trump's is bad enough. God forbid we end with another! Yuck.
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  #846  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 1:49 PM
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^^^I really like the river front plazas, what about them do you think is ugly? Other than the cheap stone that many have been using lately, they are a great way to engage the river imo.

And as for the "huge" podium, it seems to be pretty well integrated into the landscape so that it looks more like a series of retaining walls than a podium. I think it is really great compared to, say, all the k-stuff that surrounds it. And if you look at the pictures of the model, the street side is faced by huge curtain walls of glass (the podium is extremely well done so that you enter on the street and walk up so that you are elevated slightly above the river in the lobby - really great imo), so even if the retail won't open onto the street, it will be highly visible. And besides, the podium isn't even really a podium. It is more to facilitate the train tracks than anything else. Al in all, I think it is very well handled.

The model for a refresher:

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyguy View Post
Speaking of the retail, I wonder if Starbucks has already signed on or Hines just assumes that Starbucks will be willing to open another store... A sign of the times if Starbucks is the first tenant to sign on to a major building I guess...
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  #847  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 2:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
I thought this was SUPER dead? Huh. I hate all these riverfront "plazas". They're ugly. Trump's is bad enough. God forbid we end with another! Yuck.
I like Trump's riverwalk. It's compact, clean, offers great views, a few places to rest, and is extremely walkable. Even without retail or any tangible attractions, I usually see a decent amount of people (tourists and locals) hanging around and snapping shots.

Once Wrigley's 'screen' is removed from N Michigan Ave, I think we'll see more people funnel into the Wrigley Arcade/Trump Plaza which should (hopefully) attract some cafes and shops along that route. Would be a great "natural" outgrowth from the Boul Mich foot traffic.

To go back OT, I don't see the connection to this project's podium/plaza with Trump. Remember 2 things: River Point has to contend with the partially grade-level railroad tracks on the lot, AND the obligation to build a riverwalk along the actual river. Factor in the 250 parking spaces they seem intent on stuffing in, and the podium is surprisingly tame. I hate the blank wall that Lake Street gets, but at least the pedestrian experience looks to be serviceable along Canal St. (It is a bit too stair-happy for my tastes, though).

Realistically, how would you tackle those design hurdles? Their solution certainly isn't perfect, but I think the offenses are relatively benign given the quality of the rest of the tower.
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  #848  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 2:43 PM
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I thought this was SUPER dead? Huh. I hate all these riverfront "plazas". They're ugly. Trump's is bad enough. God forbid we end with another! Yuck.
Really ? I love it !
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  #849  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 2:44 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ I'm disappointed to find that much of the retail doesn't have sidewalk entrances.

What is this, 1984 again? I haven't seen a hoodlum in those parts in quite a while, tear down that wall!
There is only the Starbucks and a Sandwich Shop... one is at street level with Canal and the other is up maybe 10 steps? Thats not bad at all IMO
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  #850  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 2:46 PM
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Originally Posted by untitledreality View Post
There is only the Starbucks and a Sandwich Shop... one is at street level with Canal and the other is up maybe 10 steps? Thats not bad at all IMO
Some people find walking as a rigorous exercise apparently.
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  #851  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 3:01 PM
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Man - that is gonna be AWFUL on Lake once you are 30 feet west of the river. Big, blank, stone wall. It's too bad, because I generally like this design! Hope they find a way to engage the pedestrian as they walk west on Lake.
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  #852  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 3:10 PM
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Originally Posted by woodrow View Post
Man - that is gonna be AWFUL on Lake once you are 30 feet west of the river. Big, blank, stone wall. It's too bad, because I generally like this design! Hope they find a way to engage the pedestrian as they walk west on Lake.
You mean the wall the stairs are on ? Im not sure about that, one render shows the plaza connecting to the main street level
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  #853  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 3:27 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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Nice, good to see this revived. It really doesn't look the same though when it's 5 floors shorter.

For all of you that are complaining about the "podium" keep in mind that this is built over a set of railway tracks. They have to keep a certain clearance over those tracks and a lot of the shape of the riverfront plaza is determined by that ROW.

Additionally, this building is HEAVILY underparked. In the O'Hare market, for example, the gold standard is 4 spaces per 1,000 SF of space. It's usually much lower downtown, but this has 0.3 spaces per 1,000 SF... That's a really really low amount of parking. They are obviously expecting a huge population of transit-using employees which is fantastic. Driving is not even going to be an option for these employees because there simply aren't enough spaces for them all. Lets assume each employee will take 250 SF of space (which is generous given today's open layouts and densities) then there will be 3,400 employees in this building at full occupancy. Only 250 of them will even have the option of parking in the building. That's fantastic and probably means 3,000 more commuters for Metra and the CTA a day...
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  #854  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 3:32 PM
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Great to see this is alive. Now we may have part of the main river bookend.
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  #855  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 7:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiPhi View Post
The biggest loss is the loss of the secondary building to the North of the main building that would have made the end of the river nicer...
The biggest loss was the boat rental building IMO, although I guess that was gone a long time ago.


It'll be interesting to see what Goettsch does with the site to the south.
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  #856  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 7:06 PM
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^^^ God that'd be sick! WANT! That would make up for the loss of the Waterview cantilever.
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  #857  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 7:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 View Post
^^^ God that'd be sick! WANT! That would make up for the loss of the Waterview cantilever.
We don't know that yet, the only design besides the cantilever is a low quality leaked design, i expect the design to change to something better, maybe the cantilever, before they start building again.
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  #858  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 8:34 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ I'm disappointed to find that much of the retail doesn't have sidewalk entrances.

What is this, 1984 again? I haven't seen a hoodlum in those parts in quite a while, tear down that wall!
We can't be sure. The site plan shows a revolving door....either elevated 4' above street level or I guess some sort of interior vestibule with stairs that's not shown.

I've seen some leasing plans for buildings where they include no exterior doors on the floorplans, as you can decide where to put them. But in this case it seems strange considering the elevation change.
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  #859  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by markh9 View Post
Canal St Level:
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyguy View Post
650' tall, 45 floors, retail (Starbucks, sandwich shop, fine dining restaurant)
Lake Street itself clears the railroad tracks. As you can see from the second image, the podium clears the railroad tracks and then has a large deck above that. Is this thick deck necessary to carry the load of the park? I know nothing about structural engineering but that looks like a pretty wide gap to clear, so I imagine it is necessary to have a pretty beefy support structure. Is that why it needs to be so elevated over Lake Street?

Even if this thick deck is necessary, it seems they could have designed the Lake Street parts to interact with street level a little better. Maybe move the stairs closer to the building and have a larger at grade entrance to the park. The current entrance by the stairs seems rather small.

Also, according to the first image, the Lake Street wall will have five random doors which open into small hallways, stairwells (fire exit?), and mechanical rooms. That just seems odd. Nothing could have been done to break up this giant wall and make it feel less like the back end of a movie theater. Other than that, I like it and it will make a good book end to the views down the river. Although I will miss being able to see the brown line, UP metra trains and Milwaukee district trains in one shot.
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  #860  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2012, 8:50 PM
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Has there been any news about this in local news yet ?
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