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  #181  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2009, 6:23 PM
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Where in the west harbourfront? I can't think of any large vacant parcels of land down there off the top of my head.

Downtown has my vote.
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  #182  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2009, 6:35 PM
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Think of former Rheem site.
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  #183  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2009, 9:51 PM
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Think of former Rheem site.
I personally think entertainment complexes like this belong downtown, like the Rogers Center or ACC in Toronto; it just feels like the right location. Not only that but it has the potential to bring tourists from out of town, and downtown is the main area of the city that you want to attract tourists to. I would definitely not want to see this stadium built in a suburban area.

All of these new developments surfacing make me really excited, but at the same time I get nervous because I can't help thinking that city council is going to $%#$ up most of them.
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  #184  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2009, 10:58 PM
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I'm kinda iffy on having a 30,000 or so open stadium in the downtown area. I rather have it located right outside the downtown area like the West Harbourfront, which is not far from the core. It'll be linked with the A-Line and near the James St North GO/VIA Station.



I have a feeling we could end up with something like this.....

Stadium next to an aquatic centre and possible arena with partnership with McMaster.
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  #185  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2009, 11:20 PM
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These are ballparks, but this is the trend in stadium building. These parks are awesome, I favour a downtown location. Notice how they all take sightlines outside the stadium into account.


PNC Park, Pittsburgh:

http://pittsburgh.about.com/b/2007/0...o-ballpark.htm


Camden Yard, Baltimore:

http://www.baseballpilgrimages.com/a...baltimore.html

Comerica Park, Detroit

http://www.detnews.com/2005/allstar/...lst-242013.htm
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  #186  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2009, 11:42 PM
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West Harbourfront area is kinda considered the downtown area. If the stadium is angeled right it could have a nice view of the skyline and the Harbour.
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  #187  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2009, 11:56 PM
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You can see how close the stadium would be to Copps.

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  #188  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2009, 4:26 AM
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Downtown is my first choice, but second choice is definitely second choice. It is close to downtown, and as Hamilton grows it's inevitable that our downtown boundaries will grow as well, so it very well may be 'downtown' in the future!
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  #189  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2009, 12:12 PM
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Council fumbling Pan-am bid: Braley
A mistake to drop Confederation Park option, he says

January 15, 2009
Rob Faulkner and John Kernaghan
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/496471

Hamilton city council made a bad call in rejecting the best stadium location available.

That's the view of an original architect of the Pan American Games bid, businessman David Braley.

The auto-parts magnate was shocked that council Monday deleted Confederation Park from consideration. He said that east-end gateway location presents the best chance to generate long-term revenue to cover operating costs of a $150-million facility. The 27,000-seat stadium would be home to track and field for the Games, then become a multi-use facility and home to the Ticats.

Braley, who took the Pan Am concept to council last April, said it is shortsighted to not fully examine a site identified by city staff as one of four contenders.

But no one on council yesterday showed much appetite for getting Confederation Park back onto a front-burner.

And the president of Toronto 2015, which is assembling the Golden Horseshoe-wide bid, said none of the three remaining sites presents a problem as part of a bid book to be submitted April 30.

Also, Jagoda Pike said the distance between Toronto and Hamilton isn't a drawback.

The 2015 bid company is expected to recommend an athletes village for Toronto with track and field competitors bused to and from the Hamilton stadium.

Pike said her group is waiting for a preferred site from Hamilton, the only city Toronto 2015 has been talking to about a stadium.

Braley, meantime, laid out the business plan for the Confederation site. He stressed public ownership of the land, a mere eight-hectare dent in an 83-hectare site, and the possibility of private partners bringing more attractions to a site that already has a water park.

Braley, who sits on an eight- member Hamilton Pan Am community advisory board, said parking at the site and naming rights for the stadium would be lucrative long-term revenue streams.

The proximity to the QEW would elevate the value of naming rights and enhance Hamilton's image.

The Confederation Park site could be revisited later, said businessman Ron Foxcroft, an advisory board member.

"The key is winning the bid. Then you can make changes to locations and facilities. But you have to win."

Meantime, upset with the vote to kill the possibility of Confederation Park hosting a Pan Am Games stadium, Councillor Bob Bratina wants a study of future waterfront uses.

Bratina plans to ask staff to survey Lake Ontario sites and to advise council on the potential for acceptable recreational, residential and commercial developments. He felt councillors didn't have the information they needed about the area before Monday's vote.

"Whether we can revisit the stadium proposal remains to be seen, but I am trying to get the robust kind of discussion we did not get at the Pan Am presentation."

Still on the short list are the unserviced airport lands, the cramped downtown and the complex west harbourfront area.

There doesn't seem to be a move afoot to overturn the vote, which would need a supporter to change his or her mind, with two-thirds of council support.

Confederation Park is big, undeveloped, with highway access and waterfront views; but it also has noise and odours due to the QEW, has limited "legacy" impact due to its distance from population and transit, and needs upgraded water and sewer servicing.

But Councillor Brian McHattie, who supported Collins, says all three remaining sites have problems, so the list must be expanded. Downtown likely doesn't have a site big enough, housing is planned for the west harbour, and the airport is too far away.

Terry Whitehead, who opposed the Collins motion and is on the local community advisory committee for the bid, wants more creative ideas such as building atop Bernie Arbour Stadium and relocating its current activities.

He worries about the looming deadline to put a site forward, but says site selection need not be perfected during the bidding process.

"It's a bit of a game. You can change the location after a decision has been rendered, as I understand it, but you need something to go forward," he said.

Councillor Tom Jackson, who backed Chad Collins' motion to drop Confederation Park due to the loss of greenspace, said many National Football League stadiums are in suburbs outside the city the team represents. He likes the airport, south Mountain and west harbour, but doesn't want to rule out an Ivor Wynne retrofit.

Other Collins supporters, such as Sam Merulla and Bernie Morelli, likewise have no interest in repeating the vote on Confederation Park.

Morelli is waiting on staff to report back on the three remaining options before picking his preferred site. Merulla says the list should be expanded to include Turner Park, at Rymal and Upper Wentworth.
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  #190  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2009, 1:43 PM
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Braley and Foxcroft are thinking in business terms about the stadium itself-a location along the QEW is good for attracting events and people from throughout the region.

I still favour downtown, because I think this is a great opportunity to bring 27,000 people downtown. I think of the spinoff business that could be created. A Confederation Park/QEW stadium has a big parking lot and people drive to the stadium and then drive home. It also cannot take advantage of future rapid transit.


Suburban locations should be off the table completely. There are no benefits to anyone with a stadium near the airport or Stoney Creek Mountain. The councilors that favour that option are wildly out of step with the times and are squandering a major opportunity.
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  #191  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2009, 2:11 PM
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Suburban locations should be off the table completely. There are no benefits to anyone with a stadium near the airport or Stoney Creek Mountain. The councilors that favour that option are wildly out of step with the times and are squandering a major opportunity.
I disagree, and think they should be on the table at this stage of the process. I don't think the stadium should be located there, but I think it's important to have all potential areas evaluated for pro's and con's.

Having the suburban locations in the evaluation stage will help sell a central location, especially when the ward councillor (i.e. Collins) is against the location and will work to have it eventually put to the bottom of the pile.

It also means different areas of the city are included, there is nothing worse than having areas feel they are overlooked from the outset.
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  #192  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2009, 2:17 PM
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^ I favour a downtown location too. But I do see merit of a stadium on the eastern end of the beach.
1. High visibility
2. would attract more out of town visitors (unfortunately I believe this) and I wouldn't want the stadium events to not attract capacity.
3. The naming is gold
4. Something significant to bring Hamilton closer to the water


I don't like that there is anyplace to walk to. Hutch's and Baranga's don't count. Maybe it would spur development but unlikely when used so infrequently.

Downtown would add significant people downtown, patronizing stores/restaurants. It could be accommodated at John/Wilson area. I would prefer to see the city start making its way towards the water. That would mean development from King St northwards.

Plus seeing a skyline from inside a studium lets people know where they are.
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  #193  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2009, 2:22 PM
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I really think some consideration should be given to Kay Drage Park as a potential stadium site. This site is in close proximity to downtown and is more than large enough to hold a facility of this size. It is adjacent to the 403 for easy highway access, and also has high roadside exposure that would be lucrative for corporate cobranding. It is close to several local transit routes including the B-Line. It's also right next to existing rail, and the addition of a station platform would make it easily accessible by GO trains (a huge plus for integration with the Toronto events and athlete village). Most importantly, it is city owned property that is 'shovel ready'.
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  #194  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2009, 2:33 PM
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I disagree, and think they should be on the table at this stage of the process. I don't think the stadium should be located there, but I think it's important to have all potential areas evaluated for pro's and con's.

Having the suburban locations in the evaluation stage will help sell a central location, especially when the ward councillor (i.e. Collins) is against the location and will work to have it eventually put to the bottom of the pile.

It also means different areas of the city are included, there is nothing worse than having areas feel they are overlooked from the outset.
That might work with reasonable people, but this is Hamilton council. They will point to Buffalo's suburban football stadium as something to emulate. They will be attracted to the suburban location because it could include 15 acres of parking and highway access. They will say "where will people park at the bayfront?" Suburban location: parking "problem" solved.
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  #195  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2009, 2:33 PM
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Kay Drage is not a bad location either...
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  #196  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2009, 4:17 PM
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That might work with reasonable people, but this is Hamilton council. They will point to Buffalo's suburban football stadium as something to emulate. They will be attracted to the suburban location because it could include 15 acres of parking and highway access. They will say "where will people park at the bayfront?" Suburban location: parking "problem" solved.
And the other side can point to Roger's Centre, ACC, Copps, even John Labatt Centre, etc as local places where downtown locations have been successful.

I still think the timing of removing one of 4 spots from evaluation was pre-mature.
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  #197  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2009, 6:52 PM
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They are iffy on the West Harbourfront because of the Bayview Terrace proposal, you can see the proposal under the City of Hamilton section.

I rather have the stadium that has a good chance of getting built than the Bayview Terrace.
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  #198  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2009, 10:29 PM
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As a Ticats season ticket holder, when I first saw Confederation Park as a possible site, I was astonished. Right now, living downtown, I can easily walk to Ivor Wynne or take the bus or a even reasonably priced cab. I can go to a place like Rankin's before the game. Confederation Park, not so much.

I can see the appeal of the site for other events, but I'm highly skeptical of how many "other" events will actually materialize. The Molson Amphitheatre seems to have a decent lock on summer events in the area, as it is. Plus people coming for events could just as easily stay in hotels in Burlington than downtown Hamilton. I'd much rather bring people into the downtown area. I would bet if Buffalo could do it again, they would rather the Bills play closer to downtown.

Fortunately, the site seems out, so the arguments would appear to be moot anyways.
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  #199  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2009, 12:16 PM
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Score one for T.O. 2015 bid
Pan Am contenders no-shows for presentations to voting delegates

January 16, 2009
John Kernaghan
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/497134

Toronto 2015's Pan Am bid scored a shutout last weekend.

The bid's international competitors for the 5,000-athlete showcase failed to take advantage of a prime lobbying opportunity before the Caribbean Association of National Olympic Committees (CANOC).

Bid president Jagoda Pike said Canada's delegation had exclusive time at the group's general assembly, which includes about half of the delegates who will vote for the host city later this year.

"We were the only ones to present," said Pike of the meeting of CANOC in Curacao.

Pan Am contenders Lima, Peru and Bogota, Colombia were invited to make presentations to 25 countries, about 20 of them members of the Pan American Sports Organization (PASO) which will award the 2015 Games.

"They told me they were coming," explained CANOC chairperson Steve Stoute, "but they didn't show up."

He estimated around 40 delegates, about half of the 80 PASO votes, heard the Toronto 2015 pitch on behalf of Hamilton and other Golden Horseshoe municipalities.

Stoute said the only plausible reason for the absence of the two South American contenders is that "they think everyone in the Caribbean will vote for Canada."

Pike said her delegation was able to get lots of lobbying in, noting "we were very well received."

Hamilton's Dr. Gene Sutton, who was Canada's chef de mission at the 2003 Pan Ams, called the no-shows a big surprise.

"The Caribbean vote is critical," she said.

Chris Rudge, CEO of the Canadian Olympic Committee, attended the CANOC meetings and stressed "opportunities like this to directly speak to and share ideas with voting delegates don't come around that often."

But, he pointed out, Canada's bid through Toronto 2015 can't worry about what the opposition is doing.

"We've got to focus on our own bid and I think we're in pretty good shape."

The Toronto 2015 delegation was building on Canadian strength in the Caribbean at the CANOC assembly. The Canadian Olympic Committee and Commonwealth Games Canada run sports and development programs throughout the region.

Canada will press its advantage further in July when the first Caribbean Games are held in Trinidad.

A combination of federal and provincial organizations will help with accreditation technology and volunteer programs for the inaugural competition.

The Pan Am Games have not been in North America since the 1999 showcase in Winnipeg. They will be staged in Guadalajara, Mexico, in 2011, following the 2007 Games in Rio and 2003 events in the Dominican Republic.

The competing cities must submit bid books by April 30 with site evaluations in the spring and a vote sometime next fall.
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  #200  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2009, 12:17 PM
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Chad Collins adamant: green space beats Pan Am

January 16, 2009
John Kernaghan and Nicole Macintyre
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/497121

Councillor Chad Collins would rather the city lose the Pan Am Games than see a stadium built in Confederation Park.

"I'd want to retain that green space at any cost," the east-end politician said yesterday.

Collins' comments came in reaction to criticism from bid supporter David Braley, who believes council was wrong to remove the park from consideration Monday.

The businessman, who first presented the Golden Horseshoe Pan American Games bid opportunity to council and sits on the city's advisory committee, argues the Confederation site offers the best chance to recover the cost of building the $150-million facility.

But Collins believes the infrastructure investment shouldn't come at the cost of park space -- anywhere in the city.

"I believe on principle the decision I made was the right one," he said, adding he has heard nothing but support from residents.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger said he still thinks council should have reviewed all the options before dismissing sites, but doesn't agree with Braley that Confederation Park was necessarily the best location. Without proper research, it's impossible to say, he said.

"There are still other opportunities," Eisenberger said, noting: "There isn't a perfect site."

The top locations left on the table include downtown, airport lands and the west harbourfront.

The city needs eight hectares to build the stadium that will be used for track and field during the Games before becoming the permanent home of the Ticats.

The provincial bid team, Toronto 2015, is waiting for Hamilton to pick its preferred site for the 27,000-seat stadium. A decision is expected next month.

Tourism Hamilton director David Adames confirmed with bid president Jagoda Pike yesterday that ruling out Confederation Park has not compromised the city's participation in the regional bid.

Businessman Ron Foxcroft, a member of the community advisory committee for Pan Am, said he hopes council will reach a decision on the location quickly.

"People I meet like to call Hamilton the dysfunctional city that took 50 years to build an expressway. I hope we're not looked at in future as the dysfunctional city that took 50 years to build a stadium."

Hamilton is seeking $220 million in facilities -- a stadium, pool and velodrome -- as part of the bid. The overall cost would be split among the federal, provincial and city levels of government.
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