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Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West > SSP: Local Portland > Transportation & Infrastructure

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  #481  
Old Posted: Mar 28, 2012, 2:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shilo Rune 96 View Post
The card is great. But in Portland it's not necessary .. I could be entirely off, feedback is greatly appreciated
Yup. You're entirely off. Portland needs a card that users can add to and use whenever and however they wish. I mean, really now... it's freaking 2012 and people are still fishing in their wallets and pockets for dollars and coins for busses even though fewer and fewer people carry cash these days.

It's downright silly. And for such a transit oriented city, it's also embarrassing.

Think of it like the App Store for Mac or iPhone. Do you have to whip out your debit card or credit card every time you want to buy an app? Of course not. The info is stored in your account. You just click the purchase button and you're done.

The streetcar, MAX and bus should work that way too. Scan the card and the system knows whether you have a pass, or whether you need to be charged for a one time ride. Or, if the one time part is too scary for people stuck in the 1980s, we could at least have a system where people find a machine to put credits on their card, and then on the bus, just swipe it.

It would make so much more sense to have a Trimet card instead of the silly paper ticket system with cash payment we have now.

I know so many people who don't ride the bus because they don't have change and don't even know how much a ticket is. Heck, I don't even know how much a ticket is. I buy them in packs long before I even need them.

Consider how much less of a shock to the entire system it would be if Trimet had to increase fares at some point. Now, even an increase of as little as a nickel is a nightmare because people are used to needing exact change. With a card system, it would simply mean an increase to refill your card. Whether you're buying a single fare, ten fares, or a monthly or annual pass, it could all be handled easily with a card system.

Trimet should have implemented a card system ten years ago - if not twenty. It's ridiculous that in the year 2012 we're still using a style of paper tickets that, in many regards, predates our grandparents. Trimet needs a card system.
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  #482  
Old Posted: Mar 28, 2012, 3:11 AM
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Light rail in the Seattle area is operated by Sound Transit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Transit

http://www.orcacard.com/ERG-Seattle/p1_001.do
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  #483  
Old Posted: Mar 28, 2012, 3:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1
Yup. You're entirely off. Portland needs a card that users can add to and use whenever and however they wish. I mean, really now... it's freaking 2012 and people are still fishing in their wallets and pockets for dollars and coins for busses even though fewer and fewer people carry cash these days.

It's downright silly. And for such a transit oriented city, it's also embarrassing.

Think of it like the App Store for Mac or iPhone. Do you have to whip out your debit card or credit card every time you want to buy an app? Of course not. The info is stored in your account. You just click the purchase button and you're done.

The streetcar, MAX and bus should work that way too. Scan the card and the system knows whether you have a pass, or whether you need to be charged for a one time ride. Or, if the one time part is too scary for people stuck in the 1980s, we could at least have a system where people find a machine to put credits on their card, and then on the bus, just swipe it.

It would make so much more sense to have a Trimet card instead of the silly paper ticket system with cash payment we have now.

I know so many people who don't ride the bus because they don't have change and don't even know how much a ticket is. Heck, I don't even know how much a ticket is. I buy them in packs long before I even need them.

Consider how much less of a shock to the entire system it would be if Trimet had to increase fares at some point. Now, even an increase of as little as a nickel is a nightmare because people are used to needing exact change. With a card system, it would simply mean an increase to refill your card. Whether you're buying a single fare, ten fares, or a monthly or annual pass, it could all be handled easily with a card system.

Trimet should have implemented a card system ten years ago - if not twenty. It's ridiculous that in the year 2012 we're still using a style of paper tickets that, in many regards, predates our grandparents. Trimet needs a card system.
I hope I don't come across as a paranoid weirdo, but I don't wan't TriMet tracking when I board transit. When I lived in Phoenix I had a transit pass card that I'd scan it when I got on the bus. If I was riding the bus to my employer, they paid the fair, if I scanned my card and went somewhere else, I received a bill for the ride. That feels strange. I'd just rather keep my annual pass sticker that works on all transit options offered, which is what I currently have, and I'm not tracked by an electronic system.
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  #484  
Old Posted: Mar 28, 2012, 4:04 AM
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Mark.....your experience in Phoenix was a fear/concern that many in the Seattle area expressed prior to the implementation of Orca. I relocated prior to Oregon right before transit riders began purchasing their Orca cards. I don't have any idea if these same people still have these concerns..
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  #485  
Old Posted: Mar 28, 2012, 5:05 AM
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I like the idea of a card ticket because it's reusable. I know you can reuse a pass but think about all the printed paper tickets that get thrown in the trash every day. It's a lot easier to keep track of if you only have to remember one card and it allows the transit agency to make sure everyone is paying the right fare and probably reduces fare evasion. Atlanta only has the MARTA and they have the Breeze card so I don't think having multiple transit agencies should be a prerequisite to a smart card.
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  #486  
Old Posted: Mar 28, 2012, 5:59 AM
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Having a RFID-style card for Trimet would be great. The tracking on the ORCA is so infrequently used I'm sure it'll eventually be phased out for transaction cost for employers on E-Purse. The benefits are autoload, group fares and cross-system transfers. It's also sped up boarding. Ultimately I expect there to be an app to manage ORCA cards.

For the Puget Sound it's about integration. For Trimet it would be about convenience.
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  #487  
Old Posted: Mar 28, 2012, 6:44 AM
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Even the frigging ROSE FESTIVAL waterfront carnival doesn't use paper tickets anymore. When carnies are more advanced than mass transit agencies, something is wrong. Very very wrong.
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  #488  
Old Posted: Mar 28, 2012, 5:19 PM
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MarkDaMan, an ORCA (One Regional Card for All) card is like your pass, but in card form. I still think that Tri-Met could have a card available for people if they like. I believe Vancouver, BC has a card available and they have one main agency as well. Also, I believe, ORCA was Vancouver's for the taking, but they passed on the name, so Seattle took the sloppy seconds. Speaking of sloppy, our multiple transit agency structure is just that. Sound Transit, King County (Metro), Pierce Transit, Community Transit, Kitsap Transit are the main transit agencies of the Puget Sound metropolitan area. Pierce Transit recently announced plans to reduce their service area to reflect service support. They cut out the anti-transit exurban areas of the county. Some of these areas will still be supported by Sound Transit. I wish Sound Transit would take over all the agencies, but that's not happening anytime soon. Portland, you're so good at doing things right.
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  #489  
Old Posted: Mar 28, 2012, 6:47 PM
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Actually, our transit is kind of sloppy in that regard too. Trimet doesn't own the Portland Streetcar, though it runs it. That's why they don't fine people who take free rides on the streetcar outside of the fareless area. For years, they've done bogus 'surveys' instead, asking if riders paid for tickets. But they don't issue fines because (to the best of my knowledge) they legally can't. On the bus or Max, on the other hand, if they catch you, you get a fine. Perhaps this will change next year when there is no fareless area? Only time will tell.
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  #490  
Old Posted: Mar 29, 2012, 6:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post
Yup. You're entirely off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexjon View Post
For Trimet it would be about convenience.
I think the original comment wasn't in regards to convenience (User: Black Box). Yes, I do agree, from a convenience standpoint Trimet could benefit from this. But in Seattle it's necessary because of the amount of transit agencies. In Portland it's not necessary to function the way we do. Going electronic would have both its disadvantages and advantages; how many occasional riders would really take the time to start an account? What is the start-up cost? What kind of limitations could employers start? What are the initial losses, like the new credit card machines we just installed in the Green Line?

Overall, I wouldn't support something like this yet. Although I could see it being more useful in the future.
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  #491  
Old Posted: Mar 29, 2012, 6:59 PM
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I think this would increase revenue for Trimet. Look at the sales of apps before and after they join the Mac App Store. Same app. Same price. Ah, but the convenience of selling via the Mac App Store increases sales - often dramatically.

And then consider it from a safety perspective. How often do we see a passenger board the bus and stand there, fiddling with change - often searching for change - as the bus pulls away. Not only does it slow down the boarding process, it also gives drivers one more hassle to deal with when they should be focussing on the road.

I realize this is change and people fear change, but it's time for Trimet to move on from the silly early 1900s ticket system. A card system would be easier and more convenient for passengers. For tourists and infrequent riders, they could purchase a temporary card (which would really be little more than what we now think of as a ticket) from machines just like the ones we now buy MAX tickets on.

And, of course, the system would be tailored for the needs of Portland. I think the upsides are so big that I can't fathom why we're still dealing with little bits of paper like it's still 1945.

I can track busses on my iPhone, but I can't get on one unless I've got exact change. I've got instant access to money if I go to just about any shop, whether it be brick and mortar or online... but I can't get on a bus unless I have the right amount of coins in my pocket. Honestly, how often do people carry coins these days? ...I realize, this is where anyone who is afraid of something new chimes in and swears they walk around with pockets full of quarters and a pouch full of even more coins... but really now, that era is 20 years gone.

I want more people to take mass transit. Trimet needs to do a far better job of making it easier for them to do so.
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  #492  
Old Posted: Apr 26, 2012, 11:41 PM
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Portland Streetcar Loop extension's overhead wires go 'hot' Friday morning
Published: Thursday, April 26, 2012, 4:22 PM Updated: Thursday, April 26, 2012, 4:29 PM
By Joseph Rose, The Oregonian

http://blog.oregonlive.com/commuting...op_extens.html

Quote:
It's alive!

Well, they're alive. The Portland Streetcar Loop Project's overhead wires, that is.

More precisely, seven miles of overhead wire along the soon-to-open eastside extension of the streetcar line along Northeast, Northeast and Southeast Portland streets will be "hot" as of Friday morning...
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  #493  
Old Posted: May 4, 2012, 10:34 PM
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Streetcar testing on NE Broadway


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  #494  
Old Posted: Jun 13, 2012, 3:57 AM
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Uh-oh.

United Streetcar months behind schedule on streetcars for Portland's eastside line
Published: Tuesday, June 12, 2012, 6:14 PM Updated: Tuesday, June 12, 2012, 7:56 PM
Brad Schmidt, The Oregonian


Clifford Jones readies a crane for undercarriage testing of the first domestically manufactured streetcar in about 60 years. Jones, who handles quality control for Oregon Iron Works' United Streetcar, is one of about 100 employees or subcontractors working on the streetcar project. Faith Cathcart/The Oregonian


Portland's $148.3 million eastside streetcar line will open ceremoniously in September, but it's increasingly unlikely that the star of the show -- America's only domestically produced modern streetcar -- will be ready.

Officials for Clackamas-based United Streetcar acknowledged this week that work on their first five streetcars is months behind schedule. Representatives for the city's streetcar division remain hopeful that at least one of the vehicles will be ready for the line's Sept. 22 opening.

The setback is just the latest as United Streetcar, a subsidiary of Oregon Iron Works, attempts to break into a sector that's traditionally been monopolized by European companies. Design problems already prompted city leaders to delay the line's opening by five months and reduce the number of cars from six to five, while barely trimming the $19.5 million budget.

"We're not on the schedule we'd like to be," said Carter MacNichol, a consultant with Shiels Obletz Johnsen, which is managing the project for Portland. But, he added, "it's an extremely challenging effort. I just can't emphasize that enough. There's a reason there haven't been car builders in the United States for decades. It's difficult, difficult work."

Officials for Oregon Iron Works echo that, pointing to initial challenges with the propulsion system to subsequent efforts matching 3-D computer models to actual streetcar design.

"We will not compromise safety or quality simply to meet a schedule," said Corey Yraguen, president of Oregon Iron Works.

Despite its lack of experience, United Streetcar has become a savvy contractor and political darling. The company has secured contracts in Tucson, Ariz., and Washington, D.C. Last year, U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood even starred in an online video promoting United Streetcar as "made in America, by American workers, who know how to manufacture the best kind of streetcars anywhere in the world."

But United Streetcar has yet to manufacture a single vehicle and work has been anything but smooth.

Officials expected United Streetcar to deliver all five vehicles to the city for initial testing by June 5, according to the contract's payment schedule. But none is ready.

In fact, United Streetcar has yet to complete wiring and begin stationary testing for the first car -- which should have happened by Dec. 30, according to the payment schedule negotiated last year.

The most pressing contractual deadline is July 10, the date Portland is supposed to take formal possession of the first streetcar. Officials say that won't happen, either, and they're instead targeting Sept. 8.

The contract calls for four of the five cars to arrive before the line's scheduled opening. But MacNichol said United Streetcar may have only one or perhaps two vehicles ready for service.

"Once they figure it out, they think they can really crank it out," he said of finishing the first car. "That said, I'm not guaranteeing we're going to hit that schedule. We still have a lot of uncertainty in front of us."

At United Streetcar's headquarters, Portland's streetcar shells have been assembled and painted in bright neon colors. Inside the first streetcar, wires dangle overhead as workers finish key connections.

"It looks like, geez, look at all these wires," said Yraguen, the Oregon Iron Works president. "Most of this is so you can test it."

Yraguen said he has a "high level of confidence" that the streetcar will pass stationary testing and move to the company's new on-site test track by the end of July.

United Streetcar has used its Portland contract to parlay business across the country.

It has a $29.9 million deal for streetcars in Tucson, although a copy of the contract obtained by The Oregonian shows that all seven body shells were supposed to be finished in May. Yraguen said only one is complete, but declined to talk in detail about the contact.

In December, leaders in Washington, D.C., initially blessed an $8.7 million contract for two vehicles from United Streetcar. But officials later backtracked when streetcar manufacturer Inekon challenged the award.

The Czech Republic company noted that United Streetcar had a "lack of basic qualifications and experience" and should have been disqualified on technical merits. Even so, Washington D.C., leaders pushed through a separate deal in April by piggybacking on Portland's existing contract and avoiding another competitive process.

Officials there decided that United Streetcar had the appropriate qualifications -- technical and otherwise -- "as demonstrated by their satisfactory performance on other municipal government contracts," according to the contract summary.

If United Streetcar doesn't deliver its Portland vehicles on time, the city could charge damages of $300 per day. But Dan Anderson, a spokesman for the Portland Bureau of Transportation, said officials must wait until after the contract expires Oct. 30 and will have no comment until then.

Portland Commissioner Dan Saltzman, who previously questioned progress on the streetcars, said he hopes the investment pays off. But only time will tell.

"The verdict's still out," he said, "on whether this was a wise move or not."

-- Brad Schmidt ; On Twitter
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  #495  
Old Posted: Jun 13, 2012, 5:39 AM
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Huh. According to the minutes of the latest Streetcar CAC meeting, they're on track. How is this line going to open if they they don't have enough vehicles?
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  #496  
Old Posted: Jun 13, 2012, 7:23 AM
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Clarification from Chris Smith at Portland Transport.
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  #497  
Old Posted: Jul 20, 2012, 7:57 AM
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any pictures of the New line?
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  #498  
Old Posted: Jul 23, 2012, 11:20 PM
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I saw a streetcar south on MLK a few days ago south of the Hawthorne Bridge overpass, it was testing out the new line. It was the 'Made in USA' one.
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  #499  
Old Posted: Jul 26, 2012, 11:00 PM
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It's so cool seeing these new streetcars going across the Broadway Bridge.



One thing that I don't get yet is how the streetcar is supposed to make the turn from the Broadway Bridge onto Lovejoy. Obviously, the cars are going to have a green light, but the streetcar turns from the outside lane. Is there going to be some kind of special signal there where the cars and streetcar have a green light for the outside lane while the inside lane has a red light to allow the streetcar to make the turn?
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  #500  
Old Posted: Jul 27, 2012, 1:19 AM
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Do you mean at this location? To the right of the bike signal sign, there is a light rail only signal, which are pretty common across the city now. I think vertical white means "go".
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