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Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West > SSP: Local Portland > Arts, Culture, Dining, Recreation & Entertainment

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  #61  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 8:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Sioux612 View Post
According to former Portland Tribune writer, Dwight Jaynes, they are trying to bring in the owner of the Oakland A's to look at the post office site.

My favorite location of all the proposals.
I always question the A's willingness to move...they seem to like to threaten, but never seem to follow through...but who knows, I was surprised when the Sonics finally moved out of Seattle.

Oh and it is looking like we will be saying Beaverton Beavers in the coming years cause it looks like Beaverton is more willing to find a site for the new stadium than Portland is.
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  #62  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Sioux612 View Post
According to former Portland Tribune writer, Dwight Jaynes, they are trying to bring in the owner of the Oakland A's to look at the post office site.

My favorite location of all the proposals.
I just don't see how that location would work. Are you going to have 50,000 people trying to drive through the Pearl, up Naito, or over the Broadway bridge after a game? The gridlock would last for hours.
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  #63  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 5:23 PM
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Originally Posted by CUclimber View Post
I just don't see how that location would work. Are you going to have 50,000 people trying to drive through the Pearl, up Naito, or over the Broadway bridge after a game? The gridlock would last for hours.
I agree. The post office location went off the board 10 years ago. That site needs to be saved for something special with constant vibrancy and not a use that is both seasonal and only at certain times of day.

I wonder why Gateway hasn't more serious consideration. It would be a boon to that area and it's really well served by both transit and freeways.

The school district site is the best in my opinion. The school district offices can easily be moved to another location but their are few large centrally located sites that have only one owner (which also happens to be public) as well as freeway and transit access.
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  #64  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CUclimber View Post
I just don't see how that location would work. Are you going to have 50,000 people trying to drive through the Pearl, up Naito, or over the Broadway bridge after a game? The gridlock would last for hours.
50,000!?? The only team in MLB that pulls those crowds is the Yankees...and they're pushing it at around ~53,000 per game. Just for reference, the Mariners draw in 28,000 per game on average & we'd be lucky to match Seattle's attendance.

-When did Naito & Broadway become the only way out of the Pearl?
-How many people would stay after the game to grab a bite or just simply hang out?
-How many would take transit?
-How many live within walking distance (not to mention downtown hotel guests)?
-You would be looking at maybe 10,000 cars absolute max needing to vacate the area & that is a liberal guess IMHO.

I imagine after a game it would take 45 minutes for the bulk of traffic to exit.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2009, 10:37 PM
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When did Naito & Broadway become the only way out of the Pearl?
-How many people would stay after the game to grab a bite or just simply hang out?
-How many would take transit?
-How many live within walking distance (not to mention downtown hotel guests)?
-You would be looking at maybe 10,000 cars absolute max needing to vacate the area & that is a liberal guess IMHO.
Also, you can assume that people would use the parking garages at the Rose Quarter (easy freeway access) and then just walk or take street car across the Broadway Bridge. The 10,000ish cars will be spread out over such a large area downtown/pearl/rose quarter that multiple accesses from the site would be used.

You have egress problems when you place a signifigant volumes of cars with only one roadway outlet (i.e. 7,000 cars in one big parking lot with one access road and one freeway ramp) like at Clark County Ampitheatre during a big concert.
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  #66  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2009, 3:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Okstate View Post
50,000!?? The only team in MLB that pulls those crowds is the Yankees...and they're pushing it at around ~53,000 per game. Just for reference, the Mariners draw in 28,000 per game on average & we'd be lucky to match Seattle's attendance.

-When did Naito & Broadway become the only way out of the Pearl?
-How many people would stay after the game to grab a bite or just simply hang out?
-How many would take transit?
-How many live within walking distance (not to mention downtown hotel guests)?
-You would be looking at maybe 10,000 cars absolute max needing to vacate the area & that is a liberal guess IMHO.

I imagine after a game it would take 45 minutes for the bulk of traffic to exit.

Here are the attendance figures for MLB ballparks of all the teams, if you'd like to compare the big league franchises. I would imagine that the first couple years of any expansion team (Portland?? ), attendance could be way up there.....but then would drop off like most others to average crowds.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance
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  #67  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2009, 6:51 AM
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I have always figured Portland would get a stadium that is alot like what was built in Pittsburgh...which that is a very intimate setting to see MLB played in, plus it holds about 38,000 people and averages over 19,000 people, which would be perfect for Portland.
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  #68  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2009, 9:07 PM
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So I have been thinking about the possibility of a stadium being built at the round and I havent had the chance to do any overlays or anything, but is it even possible to fit a minor league ballpark at the old Westgate site? I know there are large parking lots in that area that could easily fit a ballpark, but the Westgate property is such a wedge of land, that I dont think a park could fit there.
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  #69  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2009, 10:07 PM
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but is it even possible to fit a minor league ballpark at the old Westgate site?
I measured out the site and compared it to many other minor league and major leage ballpark site. The answer is, the vacant area that you see in google maps or google earth (former Westgate Theatre) is too small to accomodate a field and stands/concourses, etc. (approx 4 acres)

In order to fit a ballpark in the Westgate site, the City of Beaverton would have to aquire the adjacent property to the north (up to Westgate Drive). I believe this land is privately owned and occupied by a medium sized office building and restaurant. The total site after the aquisition would be about 9 acres. 9 acres can work IMO, but only would include the field and stands and a limited amount of open plazas, restraunts that you typically see included in some ballparks.

I'm no expert in land development, but I have done a fair bit of research on the development and design of baseball stadiums around the U.S.
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  #70  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2009, 10:20 PM
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I read my post again and should at least mentioned that all that information is based on my assesment of the site using the highly accurate Google Earth. It's not very scientific at all!
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  #71  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2009, 1:40 AM
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This is roughly what it would like if the built a park at the Round, I am using the footprint of the AA Minor League park in Staten Island, which is for 7,200 people. Clearly, the larger building to the north would have to be torn down or partially torn down...the smaller building to the west of it could actually stay with a slight modification to the field.

The lines for the Staten Island Park is 390 CF, 318 LF, and 230 RF.

It would be interesting if something like this is what actually sparked some real growth at the Round and gave Beaverton a more developed downtown.

A ballpark would fit perfectly in the square block south of the tracks, which would require the removal of Beaverdam Rd and the taking over of several land owners....though I am curious what other lots they are looking at...granted, at the Round is the only one I am interested in seeing....this ballpark should stay in a downtown if it isnt in Portland's downtown.

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  #72  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2009, 4:19 PM
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urbanlife,

I like what you did with you're map. One thing to consider is that the PCL (and professional baseball in general) will not allow a field layout with a west or south facing orientation. This is because they do not not want the batter in a position facing a setting sun. (they would rather have the outfielders deal with the sun)

There may be exceptions to this rule that I'm not aware of, but I remember a previous thread on this post stating this rule.

This is in part why the Westgate site is more challenging. Home plate would likely need to be placed in the west half of the lot with a first base line alignment west to east.

Could you rotate the orientation of the ballpark in your map to see what the impact would be?
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  #73  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2009, 4:55 PM
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as a native of this area i have to say that this proposal is no less of a problem than Lents was. my thoughts:
  1. traffic: anyone who regularly drives in Beaverton can tell you that getting to this location from 217 or 26 on or around 5pm on a weekday is a nightmare. not so much fun at other times, either. and believe me, people ARE going to drive to the games.
  2. big league baseball: fantasize about MLB? kiss that notion goodbye. can you imagine 30k or so humans trying to get in or out of this location? utter mayhem.
  3. adaptability: conversely, this site looks extremely constrained for AAA anyway, so it really doesn't matter.
  4. political will: you think after Beaverton and Paulson put big $$$ into a ballpark that they're going to sit back and watch MLB crush their revenue stream? you think taxpayers in Portland will vote for funding a new expensive stadium when one was built 5/10/20 years ago in the burbs?

wherever the new AAA stadium is built it will need, at a minimum, easy access to rail, freeway(s), parking and, probably most importantly, the ability to be modified for the big show. anything else is throwing money down the crapper.

urbanlife: if you feel like it, i would love to see this cut and paste stadium placed on the open area adjacent to I5 at PIR. the site i've talked about before straddles N Broadacre Rd. right near the PIR max stop. it's a grassy area that's used for overflow parking for the better attended races, to the best of my knowledge. great freeway and transit access. lots of space for parking that can be shared with PIR.
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  #74  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2009, 5:21 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxhome View Post
urbanlife,

I like what you did with you're map. One thing to consider is that the PCL (and professional baseball in general) will not allow a field layout with a west or south facing orientation. This is because they do not not want the batter in a position facing a setting sun. (they would rather have the outfielders deal with the sun)

There may be exceptions to this rule that I'm not aware of, but I remember a previous thread on this post stating this rule.

This is in part why the Westgate site is more challenging. Home plate would likely need to be placed in the west half of the lot with a first base line alignment west to east.

Could you rotate the orientation of the ballpark in your map to see what the impact would be?
Actually, the park is currently facing more north than it is west, so this positioning should be fine with the PCL rules. Also, the buildings to the north will be effected no matter what if the park goes at this site, so it is very easy to rotate the ballpark even more north if needed.
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Last edited by urbanlife; Aug 3, 2009 at 5:37 PM.
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  #75  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2009, 5:35 PM
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as a native of this area i have to say that this proposal is no less of a problem than Lents was. my thoughts:
  1. traffic: anyone who regularly drives in Beaverton can tell you that getting to this location from 217 or 26 on or around 5pm on a weekday is a nightmare. not so much fun at other times, either. and believe me, people ARE going to drive to the games.
  2. big league baseball: fantasize about MLB? kiss that notion goodbye. can you imagine 30k or so humans trying to get in or out of this location? utter mayhem.
  3. adaptability: conversely, this site looks extremely constrained for AAA anyway, so it really doesn't matter.
  4. political will: you think after Beaverton and Paulson put big $$$ into a ballpark that they're going to sit back and watch MLB crush their revenue stream? you think taxpayers in Portland will vote for funding a new expensive stadium when one was built 5/10/20 years ago in the burbs?
Traffic will be an issue, but then again, no matter what Beaverton does in its future, traffic will always be an issue...that shouldnt stop them from doing anything, but it is an issue they need to really start addressing...though, unlike Lents, this proposal isnt in the middle of a neighborhood and the number of parking isnt coming from street parking in front of people's homes. Plus at this site, a plaza can extend from the light rail stop to the stadium.

This is where I think Beaverton should think hard about taking this risk, if Portland goes for the Majors, I see them building the stadium at the PPS site with the help of state funding...this Beavers park does not have state funding, which is why the PPS site isnt an option right now for Portland. I think in the long run Beaverton will be screwed over when the Majors come to town...also, what makes you think Paulson wouldnt want to have his hands in a new MLB team in Portland if we ever got one....seriously, the only player who is gonna get the short end of this stick in the long run will be Beaverton.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eric cantona View Post
wherever the new AAA stadium is built it will need, at a minimum, easy access to rail, freeway(s), parking and, probably most importantly, the ability to be modified for the big show. anything else is throwing money down the crapper.

urbanlife: if you feel like it, i would love to see this cut and paste stadium placed on the open area adjacent to I5 at PIR. the site i've talked about before straddles N Broadacre Rd. right near the PIR max stop. it's a grassy area that's used for overflow parking for the better attended races, to the best of my knowledge. great freeway and transit access. lots of space for parking that can be shared with PIR.
I do agree, this new ballpark should be built with the Majors in mind, which is what pissed me off about the whole ordeal with Leonard, this seemed to not be a factor for him. The MC was too small of a site for a MLB park, Lents was too stupid of a location for one, and from what I can tell, Leonard really wasnt all that serious about keeping the Beavers in Portland, he just needed to be a drama queen about "something."


Also, in regard to the PIR site...you can put this ballpark there and all its parking with room to spare....looking at the map at the same elevation as the Beaverton map was at, which is 200ft, it is easy to see that....though for Leonard, it is hard to see good ideas when your head is wedge that deep in your own ass. Which I do agree with you, if Portland was serious about keeping the Beavers and couldnt afford to pay the PPS to move, the PIR site should of been the second choice.
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  #76  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2009, 6:03 PM
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traffic: anyone who regularly drives in Beaverton can tell you that getting to this location from 217 or 26 on or around 5pm on a weekday is a nightmare. not so much fun at other times, either. and believe me, people ARE going to drive to the games.
Like urbanlife said, traffic will always be an issue in Beaverton and yes people will definatly drive to a baseball game, but there is one very large advantage that the Westgate site has to at lease minimize the headaches of sitting in traffic. The Round MAX stop is very close to the biggest employers in Beaverton/Washington County. It's 2-stops away from St. Vincents Hospital/Sunset Transit Center, 2-stops away from Nike and 5/6-stops from Intel. Also, many of the MAX stops in this area offer park-n-ride, w/in 1 or 2 stops of the Round. It would be very reasonable to assume that people could drive to a park'n'ride and take a 5 minute MAX ride. This is similiar to what people do for events at the Rose Quarter by parking at Lloyd Center and either walking or taking MAX.

There are more parking/traffic options with a stadium in central Beaverton than in many other areas of the Metro area including downtown PDX, the Rose Garden and Lents.
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  #77  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2009, 3:22 PM
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If Portland ever gets MLB (which I still maintain will never happen), the only reasonable location for a stadium is the Blanchard PPS site.

Suburban MLB stadium in Portland? That would go over well. Without doing much research, I would guess that every MLB stadium built in the last twenty-five years is either very near a downtown or in the same location as the stadium it replaced (Arlington, Texas may be an exception).

But the Post Office site is even worse for different reasons. Anyone who thinks a MLB stadium will be put in a residential neighborhood is fooling themselves. This isn't 1900.
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  #78  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2009, 4:41 PM
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If a stadium should not be placed in a residential area (such as the Pearl) why has the city of Seattle rezoned the surface parking lots north of Qwest Field/south of King Street Station (Amtrak) be developed into condos, etc.?

Last edited by PacificNW; Aug 4, 2009 at 6:45 PM.
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  #79  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2009, 4:51 PM
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-Without doing much research....

-Anyone who thinks a MLB stadium will be put in a residential neighborhood is fooling themselves. This isn't 1900.
Enough said.
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  #80  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2009, 4:56 PM
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If a stadium should not be placed in a residential area (such as the Pearl) why has the city of Seattle agreed to allow the surface parking lots north of Qwest Field/south of King Street station (Amtrak) be developed into condo's, etc.?
When I was in Denver last August, their baseball stadium had condo's all around it. In fact, that particular area (Lodo) was very much like our Pearl District.

And it seemed to work out just fine.
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