[North Vancouver] Foot of Lonsdale/Site 8 | 132 Metres | 36 Floors | CANCELED

[worldwide]

Originally Posted by quobobo

You heard it here first - LEED certified towers with geothermal heating located close to transit are not environmentally friendly.

yeah i caught that one too. some people are so dumb.

its way more environmentally friendly to push our growth into the valley

[Rusty Gull]

City tower idea looks dead in the water

Trevor Lautens
Special To North Shore News

Friday, February 29, 2008

MORE than five months after West Vancouver's bureaucrats issued almost 500 dog bylaw infraction tickets during a widely controversial, mocked, and finally suspended summer campaign, the first contested case went to adjudication last week -- and town hall lost.

Adjudicator Arny Wise dismissed the charge against Jon Bishop of having a dog in a no-dog area at John Lawson Park, on a point that undermines the validity of many such tickets: Inadequate signage.

More later. But for readers turned off by the West Van dog wrangle, this more timely note concerning an important City of North Vancouver issue: Millennium's edifice by the water looks dead in the water.

Mayor Darrell Musatto recently declined to give his personal opinion to the North Shore News about Millennium's towering project, a modest edifice 36 storeys and 410 feet high -- a tad taller than the official community plan limit of 75 feet -- on currently city-owned prime waterfront.

But, over a fine lunch last week at a favourite Japanese restaurant, Musatto freely voiced his opinion of the public's opinion: Opposed. Opposed big time. Ergo, the mayor being a democratic sort of chap, alert to citizens' and his own councillors' views, I decoded his words as: This baby would never fly.

Millennium, the North Shore's 800-pound development gorilla, asked the city last October to "amend" its OCP to allow a mixed-use building on prime public waterfront at the foot and east of Lonsdale, known as Site 8. Feeling the antagonism, Millennium withdrew its plan and is scheduled to submit another to council next month.

Ivan Leonard will have none of it. Leonard, co-chairman of the Lonsdale Citizens Association, was quoted by reporter Heidi Castle: "We totally reject any proposals. . . . This project by Millennium Developments, no matter what height or density proposed, is unacceptable on this location."

I'd second that.

If a West Vancouverite leaning over the city fence is allowed an opinion, Millennium had a lot of gall to make such a bulbous bid.

I thought Millennium was a classier act than that. Its skyline-strutting, view-hoarding plan smacked of the kind of arrogant pitch that a big butter-and-egg man in a loud check suit makes to a poor dusty town grateful for any investment.

My choice for that waterfront would be to bring back North Vancouver's shipyards of old, rejecting any more high-end emporiums and towers, of which there are plenty. Eccentrically, I like places where money is made, not spent, and skilled jobs pay enough to raise families, not two of them barely paying one rent.

But in these days of ruthless exporting of jobs to China, India etc., that's a hopeless dream.

Musatto seems a good fit with North Van City, a working-class bloke who keeps up his paramedic credentials and teacher's certificate for when he returns to honest work, lives doors away from the houses of his parents and a brother, and doesn't admit to any political ambitions beyond next November's municipal elections.

He also seems shrewd enough not to waste political capital burying the Millennium project. That can be safely left to his electorate.

[mr.x]

who the hell do these people think they are?

[Rusty Gull]

City kills 400' waterfront tower plan
Council cites significant opposition

Heidi Castle
North Shore News

Wednesday, March 05, 2008

The Millennium Group proposal for the foot of Lonsdale Avenue included a new waterfront home for Presentation House Gallery and a floating swimming pool in return for a 36-storey residential tower.

The controversial 410-foot tower development for Site 8 at the foot of Lonsdale Avenue will not go forward.

In a 7-0 vote, City of North Vancouver council voted unanimously Monday to terminate Millennium Group's application.

"What we've heard is very loud and clear," said Coun. Craig Keating. "There is significant neighbourhood opposition to the current proposal."

"I was opposed to this proposal from the start," said Coun. Barbara Perrault. The height is excessive and not compatible with its surroundings, and combined with overwhelming opposition this proposal should not go ahead, she said.

"If we are ever to look at another proposal for this site, I will need to see a building with less visual impact, a substantial reduction in density transfer and a concentration of good design that is compatible with other buildings in the area," said Perrault.

While she regrets no new home for Presentation House Gallery will result from the withdrawal of this application, the Site 8 proposal was too high a price to pay for public amenities, she said.

In addition, parking and transportation issues in the area need to be addressed before another proposal comes forward, Perrault said.

Millennium Group estimated that the proposed 410-foot tower would generate some $36.7 million in additional revenue to the city. In a decreasing scale: at 250 feet that revenue would amount to $15.5 million; at 200 feet, $10 million; at 150 feet, $4.3 million; and at 75 feet, $2.4 million.

"It's very clear the majority of our citizens expect our OCP to provide some degree of certainty as to what kind of development will take place, where the density will be placed and the scale of that density," said Coun. Pam Bookham.

"This proposal was so far beyond any perimeters the public had envisioned," she said.

The city needs to establish limits on density transfers and density bonusing, said Bookham. "I think we created fear and loathing. I think there's a lot of animosity toward this council for the way we allowed this process to proceed.

"There's an expectation on the part of the community that we should know when a proposal simply doesn't in any way merit consideration," she said.

"That council somehow broke some kind of faith would be overwrought in the extreme," said Keating. Every council member on Oct. 15, except Sam Schechter who was absent, voted to bring this development forward, said Keating. All members were aware of the proposed height and amenity benefits, he said.

Council needs to use the redevelopment process to advance the type of amenities that are important to the city, he said.

Millennium is a good company that does good things in the community, said Coun. Bob Heywood. This is a difficult site to develop, and it should be developed in the context of a greater vision for the entire area, he said.

"We haven't got a clear vision on how best to maximize that whole Lower Lonsdale area," said Heywood.

With the Maritime Center, this will be the major tourist hub in the Lower Mainland and the city needs to maximize its opportunities here, he said. This is an important site and we don't need to jump at the first proposal that comes forward, he said.

It's difficult to gauge public reaction, said Mayor Darrell Mussatto. "We didn't know what the reaction to this building by the community would be. We thought, go talk to the people."

To have stopped this process before it started would have been incorrect, he said. The public has been involved in the process the entire way, said Mussatto.

"There's been nothing done behind closed doors. It's all been a public process, it's all been there in front of us," he said.

City staff will add Site 8 to its 2009 work plan to develop and refine options for the future development of the site.

© North Shore News 2008

[mr.x]

ugh.....

[Rusty Gull]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

ugh.....

That's about all I can muster up for this mess. This is a textbook case of Nimbies at their ugliest -- and most shrill.

[officedweller]

With any hope, an office tower will take its place (not holding out hope though).

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

"With the Maritime Center, this will be the major tourist hub in the Lower Mainland and the city needs to maximize its opportunities here," he said.

Am I the only one baffled by why my stupid city thinks a Maritime Centre is going to be such a huge draw? I see it being at best a new, bigger version of that the other maritime centre in Kits that no one goes to. At worst, another Storeyum.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Am I the only one baffled by why my stupid city thinks a Maritime Centre is going to be such a huge draw? I see it being at best a new, bigger version of that the other maritime centre in Kits that no one goes to. At worst, another Storeyum.

I think the new site and museum has a lot more potential....lets face it, the new museum will be at a much more central site than middle-of-nowhere-Vanier-Park, not to mention that the existing museum is basically the size of a slightly larger church (and it looks like a church).

[CameronT120]

Originally Posted by officedweller

With any hope, an office tower will take its place (not holding out hope though).

How about a new sewage treatment facility? Let the NIMBY's look at that view. Hopefully the people who understand the benefits of increased density will make their feelings known this November and get rid of Bookham and Fearnley.

[Rusty Gull]

^Actually, the new sewage treatment facility will be located in the Norgate area -- where North Shore Nimbies there shot down a new bus facility that would have allowed the North Shore to benefit from TransLink's new bus fleet.

Note to Nimbies: Be careful what you wish for. You might just get it.

[CameronT120]

Yes, I'm aware of that. I was alluding to the notion that a sewage treatment plant could be the automatic reward for every major project quashed by the NIMBY's.

[jlousa]

Somewhat related to site 8, North Van has placed an RFP out for preloading on site 9 and 10. The preloading will be in place for 2 years. No other details.

[Rusty Gull]

^ Thanks for the update, JLousa. Here's some information (a PDF) on what the City of North Vancouver might have in store for those two sites (Note: Nothing nearly as exciting as the 400-footer that the Raging Nimbies shot out of the sky last month).

http://www.cnv.org/c//DATA/2/91/EAST...20MATERIAL.PDF

[CameronT120]

The NIMBY's seem to have their own blog. I've pent a few evenings reading and am so disappointed in the points of view being expressed. What do they think is going to happen with housing prices if no further development takes place? Do they seriously think the average person will be able to afford to buy in this city if we don't pursue reasonable levels of densification?

http://northvancouverpolitics.blogspot.com/

[quobobo]

That blog wasn't nearly as bad as I expected.

Here's a few choice comments though:

Thank God for the defeat of this tower. I hope this will happen in Lynn Valley. We Lynn Valleyites DO NOT want towers in our community.

More traffic and more pollution is all we get.

If the waterfront tower goes ahead only two things will happen - it will be an empty shell which will cost the City millions because no revenue will be coming in. The other side is that it will be dividing the City like it has never been divided before.

A huge building filled with people probably close to the millionaire status, most of whom will be Internationlal. They indeed will not want any of us "riff raff" around them. What about all the local shops who will they cater to - those of us who are the now low income earners (formerly middle class) or the super rich.

[AKA-007]

I'm suprised why there are any towers in Lynn Valley. They have a mall and a community center, but that's about it.
Site 8 would have revolutionized North Van. If a new trend of larger buildings were started, we might just get the infrastructure to support the population and benifit everyone else on the north shore.
We need to create something to distract the nimbys. Propose a 60 story tower at one site and have a 30 story proposed next door.