Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion - Page 2

officedweller · #21 Posted: **Nov 1, 2007, 6:14 PM**

That would be politically more acceptable.
Remember that translink also operates roads and bridges too - so the use of cars and road transportation is within it's mandate.

mr.x · #22 Posted: **Nov 1, 2007, 8:11 PM**

New TransLink board seen as 'erosion of democracy'
Power to raise property taxes

Frank Luba, The Province
Published: Thursday, November 01, 2007

Democracy will be the loser when the province changes how TransLink is run, according to Simon Fraser University political science professor Patrick Smith.

Legislative debate on Bill 43, which turns the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority into the South Coast British Columbia Transportation Authority, resumes next week.

Smith objects to the "erosion of local democracy" represented by the proposed nine-member board of industry professionals that will run TransLink.

Like the current board of elected municipal politicians, the new appointed board will be able to raise property taxes, change taxation classifications, accumulate property and run its own police force.

A council of regional mayors will meet quarterly but will only vote on supplements to the base plan proposed by the new board, which is supposed to take office Jan 1.

"You're creating this significant regional agency which will have significant decision-

making powers and removing it from local accountability," Smith said yesterday.

"It fails the democracy test," he said. "It's designed to have [Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon's] agenda move forward with the fewest hiccups."

Municipal legal expert Jonathan Baker is also critical.

"I think it fails the administrative test," said Baker, a lawyer and former Vancouver city councillor. "It seems outrageous that you have an appointed body doing that sort of thing.

"It seems to me the public should have the right to vote out of power someone that levies a property tax if they don't like it. Didn't someone once say that taxation without representation is tyranny?"

But the government believes the new structure is better.

"I would argue better accountability because every single mayor is involved now," said Falcon. "Every single mayor will have the opportunity to participate in the construction of the alternate 10-year plan, the strategic plan.

"They will be the ones to vote on whether to accept the alternative plan or just continue operating on the base plan they have in place today.

"Under the new model, any new tax measures will have to be authorized and approved by the mayors' council and that's all of the mayors represented on that council."

In addition to the mayors' council, there will also be an independent transit commissioner to investigate TransLink's plans and fare increases.

fluba@png.canwest.com

officedweller · #23 Posted: **Nov 1, 2007, 8:50 PM**

It is a good point that the Mayor's Council is ALL of the mayors. Currently, the GVTA Board has a number of rotating board members from groups of municipalities (i.e. tri-cities) - so some muncipalities are currently excluded from votes.

nname · #24 Posted: **Nov 1, 2007, 10:56 PM**

Group of teenage girls swarm female transit bus driver

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - Vancouver Police are investigating a disturbing swarming attack on a transit bus driver last night in East Vancouver. Police say it happened after the woman driver stopped at Commerical Drive and Napier around 10:30 pm.

Police say when she offered Halloween candy to a group of teenage girls, they dragged her out of the bus and beat her up, with 2 teenage girls wearing Santa Suits doing most of the assaulting. The VPD says it was unprovoked, with no evidence the bus driver did anything to trigger the assault. The driver was traumatized but police report no serious injuries.

Drew Snider with TransLink says the incident brings up the ongoing issue of driver safety. "We have been taking measures with the union and other experts to improve that. One of the things we're doing is bringing in a new radio transmission system, which will allow drivers to communicate immediately if there's a threat to their safety."

That's not the end of the story. Later, TransLink got a call from the Vancouver Fire Department saying the bus was set on fire.

deasine · #25 Posted: **Nov 2, 2007, 1:05 AM**

oh my god.... see these people should get caught, and then punished to replace the entire bus AND stay in jail for at least 5 years

WarrenC12 · #26 Posted: **Nov 2, 2007, 1:17 AM**

They need a beating of their own.

That isn't what I'd call a quiet area, hopefully somebody saw something. Bus drivers should at least get the same safety precautions that taxi drivers get, starting with a camera on the bus.

mr.x · #27 Posted: **Nov 2, 2007, 1:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by deasine

oh my god.... see these people should get caught, and then punished to replace the entire bus AND stay in jail for at least 5 years

she was giving them candy! wtf is wrong with these people, she was being nice. i feel so sorry for the driver....worst, it only makes a stronger case for why drivers need their own "cage" in the bus.

nname · #28 Posted: **Nov 2, 2007, 3:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by deasine

oh my god.... see these people should get caught, and then punished to replace the entire bus AND stay in jail for at least 5 years

They really should.. the bus is almost brand new too (it was one of the new trolley)... what a waste of public money..

deasine · #29 Posted: **Nov 2, 2007, 6:10 AM**

TransLink is very pissed off... And I am pissed off too... I feel verry sorry for the bus driver...

the chinese proverb "Good hearts get thundered" shizit i dont know how to translate it: those who know chinglish can do so for me: "hao sum bay lui peck"

Update:
http://www.canada.com/globaltv/bc/index.html
Highly advise you to watch the report and see the damage of the bus. This is just pisisng me off. What is wrong with Vancouver lately? All the news has been so negative now... Right now, "no news is good news"

mr.x · #30 Posted: **Nov 2, 2007, 8:27 AM**

^ wow, the bus is really damaged....not just the driver's seat in the pictures, it's the entire interior that's burnt. it was so bad that they had difficulties on towing it. there is a possibility it might have to be scrapped.

The_Henry_Man · #31 Posted: **Nov 2, 2007, 3:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by deasine

TransLink is very pissed off... And I am pissed off too... I feel verry sorry for the bus driver...

the chinese proverb "Good hearts get thundered" shizit i dont know how to translate it: those who know chinglish can do so for me: "hao sum bay lui peck"

Update:
http://www.canada.com/globaltv/bc/index.html
Highly advise you to watch the report and see the damage of the bus. This is just pisisng me off. What is wrong with Vancouver lately? All the news has been so negative now... Right now, "no news is good news"

Yeah, your translation is pretty much dead on.

This country not only needs better surveillance, but from the top: Eliminate liberal-activist judges and laws and replace these with those that can really punish the bandits that attacked the bus on Halloween. We are so used to the so-called "human rights" notion that more and more of these common criminals gets more rights than us. These teenage bandits should receive the same treatment as they did to the bus driver: Be flogged.

Liberal-mindedness is the cause of all this mess in our society.

twoNeurons · #32 Posted: **Nov 2, 2007, 5:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by en2

Fare gates do add a perception of safety and if all stations were manned like in so many other proper Metro systems in the world, SkyTrain's reputation as a crime magnet would almost certainly decrease. Plus you could actually get accurate numbers on ridership.

Even in Japan, which is the safest country in the world, all systems have fare gates in them.

Japan is a very rule based society. Its train system is very unified too. The same system is used on the subways, National Rail etc. in all cities.

clooless · #33 Posted: **Nov 2, 2007, 7:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.x2

she was giving them candy! wtf is wrong with these people, she was being nice. i feel so sorry for the driver....worst, it only makes a stronger case for why drivers need their own "cage" in the bus.

I disagree, Just as building the Great Wall and the Berlin Wall didn't work, neither is placing the driver in a metal cage going to accomplish much. Not only does it destroy the relationship the driver has with his passengers, but it is a sad statement on society.

Rather, we need to deal with those that assault drivers with real justice, not healing circles and conferences, but jail and fines. Restitution for vandalism, theft and other crimes should be automatic and not something that can be bargained away during sentencing.

mr.x · #34 Posted: **Nov 2, 2007, 7:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by clooless

I disagree, Just as building the Great Wall and the Berlin Wall didn't work, neither is placing the driver in a metal cage going to accomplish much. Not only does it destroy the relationship the driver has with his passengers, but it is a sad statement on society.

Rather, we need to deal with those that assault drivers with real justice, not healing circles and conferences, but jail and fines. Restitution for vandalism, theft and other crimes should be automatic and not something that can be bargained away during sentencing.

i completely agree, i never agreed with the bus cage idea but this incident might just make it a lot more likely....note, there are 4 attacks on bus drivers every week.

those who are caugh vandalizing a bus or any transit property should be slapped on with a $2,000 fine and 3 months community service of removing graffitti around the city.

lightrail · #35 Posted: **Nov 2, 2007, 7:16 PM**

I must admit, for a city that doesn't get a real winter, it's good to see that Translink is prepared.

Some trolley buses are equiped with special overhead shoes to cut through ice that builds up overnight - these are the first to go out in the morning and clear the lines.

During snowy weather, certain skytrain cars are run throughout the night keeping the tracks clear and keeping buildup off the pressure plates in stations (that warn of intruders). Usually less trains operate in heavy snow conditions and each as a crew person on-board to deal with issue that the automatic equipment can't, but the trains are longer to try to maintain capacity.

And BTW - did everybody know that Skytrain is really a four-rail system (two stacked power rails, one at +300v DC and the other at -300V DC). Too cool.

lightrail · #36 Posted: **Nov 2, 2007, 7:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.x2

^ wow, the bus is really damaged....not just the driver's seat in the pictures, it's the entire interior that's burnt. it was so bad that they had difficulties on towing it. there is a possibility it might have to be scrapped.

The stupidity of some people - they'll be the first to complain when their bus doesn't show up because the run was cancelled due to shortage of equipment.

"Mom - my bus didn't show up"
"That's because you torched it last night dear"

SpongeG · #37 Posted: **Nov 2, 2007, 9:28 PM**

it was girls who beat her too wasn't it?

what is it with this generation of girls?

djh · #38 Posted: **Nov 2, 2007, 9:33 PM**

I dunno. Some people here are suggesting that we should basically *wait* (vulnerably) for people to commit crimes and *then* punish them - i.e., a reactive-based action. As opposed to being proactive and preventing a crime from being able to happen (e.g., building the cages on buses). I understand the *theory*, but as so much intellectual opinion crafted in lofty heights, it has little basis in reality. Crimes happen. One can't wait for one to happen and then hope you'll not only catch the criminal but get a favourable conviction, win an appeal, and get a fair punishment. That implies a whole long chain of events will come into alignment perfectly leading to a just resolution of the circumstance. In reality that just does not happen! Just open the newspaper any day! Yes, as somebody said, it is a sad statement on society, but mate, that's the society we live in, and it's not going to change just because we *think* hard enough about nice theories on how to interact with bus passengers!

The best solution in this imperfect world, as others have suggested, is to build a cage to protect the drivers.

OK, in more practical terms: Next time you get on an aeroplane, how would you feel if there was no barrier between the pilot and the passengers? Don't you feel more secure knowing the pilot is basically behind a "cage"? That's the society we live in, it's not changing because we say "oh we *should* have better interaction between the pilot and the passengers!" - Same goes for the bus. It's a "nice to have", but in the real world, because of a certain number of unruly punks, we can't have it.

jlousa · #39 Posted: **Nov 2, 2007, 10:03 PM**

^^^Wow^^^

Should we build a wall around the DTES cause we know alot of those people leave the area to commit crimes to pay for their addication. Using that logic it seems like we should.

I remember when as a child my parents were able to take me up to see the pilot fly the plane, I would love to be able to do the same. Do you really think those doors are going to stop a highjacking? They haven't. All that's happened is we've become more impersonal.

The issue here is with unsuitable punishments, hopefully we get a Conversative majority and shut up the bleeding heart liberals. *rant over*

djh · #40 Posted: **Nov 2, 2007, 10:14 PM**

My brother drives buses in London. He's seen all sorts. People throw acid at drivers. People stab drivers. People refuse to pay and if you talk back to them they will try to fight you.

They introduced cages there some time back. It's probably saved his life.

No amount of "we should" is going to change the fact that some people are just thugs. The bus driver should not have to play a lottery with their life because of them.