Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion - Page 465

GeeCee · #**9281** Posted: **Mar 28, 2012, 1:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

Its hard to take Translink's cash grabs seriously, when the news tonight reports they have $28 million in unpaid fines over two year, and no means to collect them! The same Translink that fought faregates for years as "unnecessary".

Even if they had collected those fines, they wouldn't have kept them. Those fines go to the province's general revenue fund. Not a hell of a lot of incentive for Translink to chase em down.

st7860 · #**9282** Posted: **Mar 28, 2012, 1:51 PM**

the thing is people in Metro Vancouver like having 20 separate police forces, 20 municipalities etc etc. its a very unusual kettle of fish.

Gordon · #**9283** Posted: **Mar 28, 2012, 2:15 PM**

According to Mayor Corrigan the mayors have been asking for this to be changed for years but the government has shown now interest in doing this .
this si another example of Victoria's disinterest in the proper governance for Translink

Of the total amount of fines handed out last year what %age of the unpaid fares are people who really can't afford to pay as opposed to those who choose not to pay?

st7860 · #**9284** Posted: **Mar 28, 2012, 2:36 PM**

http://www.theprovince.com/governmen...515/story.html

The B.C. government is drawing a bead on transit cheats, especially those who get caught and ignore their $173 tickets.

“Fare-evasion is a major issue,” said Transportation Minister Blair Lekstrom. “People who avoid paying their fares are costing those who legitimately pay for their fares.”

During last year and the first two months of 2012, 64,000 SkyTrain and bus commuters were handed a ticket for not showing the proper fare.

Only 7,540, or about 11 per cent, of those tickets were paid, according to ICBC statistics. The percentage of unpaid tickets has remained stable over the past five or so years, during which time TransLink has faced funding shortfalls and the need to raise more revenue.

“We need a policy that is fair and equitable for all of our riders and the ability to raise revenues,” said Lekstrom, who said he only this week became aware that TransLink doesn’t have the power to enforce payment, because payment is handled by ICBC — nor does it keep the fines collected.

TransLink estimates its fare-evasion loss at $7 million a year.

Lekstrom’s promise comes almost five years after a PricewaterhouseCoopers report done for TransLink concluded that including consequences for not paying fines would have the “single greatest impact on fare evasion.”

The tickets aren’t turned over to a collection agency, nor are they linked to the violator’s ability to renew his insurance or licence.

TransLink CEO Doug Kelsey said he has asked for years for the necessary legislation to enforce payment. He said he favours offering an early payment discount and raising fines for repeat cheats. And he would like to see the proceeds used for TransLink’s operating budget.

In Toronto, offenders who fail to pay the $115 fare-evasion ticket can be compelled to appear in court and face a fine of up to $2,000 or six months in jail.

twoNeurons · #**9285** Posted: **Mar 28, 2012, 5:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by racc

Seriously, people would brick over their cars or garages? Next time, figure out a logical argument.

Come on racc, of course not. The point is that there are often unexpected consequences when you put this kind of taxation on architectural or structural elements.

It's much better to be simpler and more generic. There is less room for strange loopholes.

officedweller · #**9286** Posted: **Mar 28, 2012, 5:43 PM**

Remember:

TransLink does not get the money from fines - it goes to the Province (into "General Revenue").

Any money spent by TransLink to collect fines is money down the drain!

If anyone should be collecting the fines, it should be the Province -
and there has been no indcation from the Province that it will change the laws so that TransLink receives the money from fines.

jlousa · #**9287** Posted: **Mar 28, 2012, 6:18 PM**

Think people are missing an element, doesn't really matter if Translink gets the ticket revenue... If the province made good on collecting the outstanding fines period, it would still benefit Translink greatly as it would reduce fare evasion and bring fare revenue up.

WBC · #**9288** Posted: **Mar 28, 2012, 9:30 PM**

All this has accomplished is that now everybody was made aware that they truly do not have to pay for transit...

This Translink-Province BS has been going on for over a decade. The funding is an issues. Fine collection is an issues. Overall policy is an issue. Priorities are an issue. The fact is that unless Lower Mainland unites into a single political entity with a single voice the province will do whatever it wants whenever it wants to and it will use Lower Mainland transportation as a cheap political gimmick. The cities of course deserve criticism as well as when the mayors were making decisions they could not make a single one (see Canada line). The chances of amalgamation are of course nil, so the comedy will just keep on going. So here we are...

aberdeen5698 · #**9289** Posted: **Mar 28, 2012, 10:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by st7860

“Fare-evasion is a major issue,” said Transportation Minister Blair Lekstrom. “People who avoid paying their fares are costing those who legitimately pay for their fares.”

Oh no, a pro-transit quote by a member of the government. How long can it be before Christy Clark wades in and muddies the waters?

racc · #**9290** Posted: **Mar 28, 2012, 10:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlousa

Think people are missing an element, doesn't really matter if Translink gets the ticket revenue... If the province made good on collecting the outstanding fines period, it would still benefit Translink greatly as it would reduce fare evasion and bring fare revenue up.

The Province should have tried this before deciding to spend all that money on the fare gates. Oh well.

IanS · #**9291** Posted: **Mar 28, 2012, 10:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by racc

The Province should have tried this before deciding to spend all that money on the fare gates. Oh well.

If Translink DOES get the revenue from tickets, but DOES NOT get the revenue from ticket enforcement, isn't it more advantageous to Translink to have the fare gates in place?

I also agree with Jlousa's comments - all of this recent publicity concerning the lack of enforcement will likely embolden those who don't want to pay.

cornholio · #**9292** Posted: **Mar 29, 2012, 1:57 AM**

Quote:

The tickets aren’t turned over to a collection agency, nor are they linked to the violator’s ability to renew his insurance or licence.

Correct me if I am wrong but this is incorrect and they are linked to the violators ability to renew his insurance or license. I remember when I got a ticket I had to pay it when I needed to renew my insurance, it was years ago so I could be wrong. If this is the case then those who can pay will pay eventually, how many people can be productive without ever needing vehicle insured in their life. Must be a minority.

I will bet that over 95% of the tickets that aren't paid within a few years are held by only a few cheats who cant pay them. That homeless guy could get a 100 tickets in a year, we see a hundred tickets unpaid equaling $17,300, but that doesnt mean 100 people didnt pay their ticket. Its just one homeless guy who cant pay and having tickets pile up being the least of his worries.

whatnext · #**9293** Posted: **Mar 29, 2012, 5:24 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by st7860

http://www.theprovince.com/governmen...515/story.html

The B.C. government is drawing a bead on transit cheats, especially those who get caught and ignore their $173 tickets..

Hmm, Gregor Robertson anybody..? Adrian Dix...there's a pattern here somewhere.

whatnext · #**9294** Posted: **Mar 29, 2012, 6:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by racc

And the problem is again, the Provincial government not helping collect the fines. They didn't implement the fare gates because the cost to build and operate them is much greater than the cost of fare evasion.

Great rhetoric again though. Keep up the good work!

Oh really? You've been the source of some good chuckles over the years, but claiming the fare gates will cost close to the $230 million reported tonight that Translink has lost over the last decade to cheats really is amusing.

cornholio · #**9295** Posted: **Mar 29, 2012, 6:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

Oh really? You've been the source of some good chuckles over the years, but claiming the fare gates will cost close to the $230 million reported tonight that Translink has lost over the last decade to cheats really is amusing.

I believe every study came to the same conclusion that building fare gates is a net money loser for translink. This was nothing more then a political decision. Not to mention that fare gates dont stop fare evasion, and certainly will reduce security on the actual transit system as you wont have as many fare checks anymore and police/skytrain attendants on the actual platforms and trains.

Fare gates are a bad idea but their going in regardless so we are stuck with them and the money drain and negative effect they will have.

People dont realize how good we have it.

racc · #**9296** Posted: **Mar 29, 2012, 7:44 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

Oh really? You've been the source of some good chuckles over the years, but claiming the fare gates will cost close to the $230 million reported tonight that Translink has lost over the last decade to cheats really is amusing.

Do you really think that all this money can be collected and that it will not cost money to collect all that money. Pretty naive or is this just more great rhetoric. Anyway, more nice chuckles yourself.

Vestry · #**9297** Posted: **Mar 29, 2012, 8:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

Hmm, Gregor Robertson anybody..? Adrian Dix...there's a pattern here somewhere.

That people show their biases by being willing to excuse certain politicians of egregiously dangerous offenses, but overplay relatively smaller offenses of less favoured political affiliations....thereby demonstrating either an incredible amount of cognitive dissonance or self-delusion....or both.

John van Dongen multiple driving offenses after featuring in safe driving advertisements
http://www.abbotsfordtoday.ca/?p=32825

whatnext · #**9298** Posted: **Mar 29, 2012, 2:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vestry

That people show their biases by being willing to excuse certain politicians of egregiously dangerous offenses, but overplay relatively smaller offenses of less favoured political affiliations....thereby demonstrating either an incredible amount of cognitive dissonance or self-delusion....or both.

John van Dongen multiple driving offenses after featuring in safe driving advertisements
http://www.abbotsfordtoday.ca/?p=32825

Neither of which has anything to do with transit.

However, it is amusing when you have politicians on the Left, who continually bleat about getting people out of cars and getting more funding for transit, but then turn around and do their personal best to deprive the system of funding.

Do as I say, not as I do...

red-paladin · #**9299** Posted: **Mar 29, 2012, 2:40 PM**

Let's keep the fare gate conversation, and the Gordogate conversation somewhere else?

DKaz · #**9300** Posted: **Mar 29, 2012, 9:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by st7860

The tickets aren’t turned over to a collection agency, nor are they linked to the violator’s ability to renew his insurance or licence

Hm. I got a ticket back in 2002 for failure to produce a valid fare (November 1st I remember, I forgot to buy a new pass) that was eventually sent to the collection agency in 2005.