Possible New Downtown Stores

[LikeHamilton]

The Spec, 17 November 2007

City courting big retailers for core

BY LISA GRACE MARR
Ron Marini is actively recruiting bigbox retailers to the downtown with a letter campaign. It’s the vision of the city’s director of downtown renewal to restore the core to its glory days when department stores and their mega window displays brought glamour to the streetscape. “It’s a way to be more proactive with getting business downtown,” he said.
Mayor Fred Eisenberger is signing many to ratchet up the tone of the letters. “Business leaders have reacted positively to our approach … and (they say it) shows Hamilton is serious about building our local economy,” said Eisenberger.
One of those responses includes a letter from Peter Robinson, CEO of Mountain equipment Co-op, who ultimately decided to locate in Burlington, but didn’t rule out considering Hamilton in the future.
It was that miss and the four planned new hotels in or near the downtown which encouraged Marini to start formally inviting retailers to visit. Marini wouldn’t say who is targeted in the letter campaign, but he did say he’d love to land a big grocery store such as Sobeys and other national retailers such as Winners, Staples, or Smart Centres (developers for Wal-Mart and other big-box retailers).
“It’s just a chance to open their eyes to what’s happening here … people are living in the downtown now and with the growth projections here we’re asking, ‘Do you want to be a part of that?’” Marini said the city has a number of locations in and around the downtown in mind. “There are a number of retailers with urban storefront models. I was in (downtown) Winnipeg and there was a Staples that was in a two-storey building. You have to adapt to each environment.”
Sid Leon, owner of Irving’s Famous Clothes on James Street North, said business has improved dramatically since condos went up behind his store.
Competition from big-box stores? No problem. “We need to have destination stores. We need the mix.” Kathy Drewitt, executive director of the Downtown BIA, agreed, pointing out that only 15 per cent of members are retailers. “There’s a need for more stores in the core.”

[flar]

If this will bring people downtown, just don't invite Wal-mart and and don't let them build new big boxes. Make them adapt to existing buildings.

[raisethehammer]

while I like the idea of courting retailers who would otherwise be fixated on farmland, I have NO USE in seeing Walmart downtown.
It would suck the life out of surrounding retail similar to what Jackson Sq did when it was built.
I don't mind some specific stores - grocery, office supplies, home decor etc....
but it has been proven time and time again in small towns and big cities that Walmart does not add anything to surrounding neighbourhoods. It only takes.
And at this point, downtown can't handle a huge vacuum coming in and sucking the life out of the place.

Other than that, I like Mr Marini's pro-active approach. They really got MEC attention, and will certainly gain the attention of other retailers with that approach.
It's about time we started banging down the doors of these businesses to locate here....of course, another whole issue is the design.
I have no use for any of them locating here if they are going to build their usual, stand-alone crap. Add in some office or residential space and build to the sidewalk and it would be a great addition to the downtown.

[the dude]

i'd like to see a small'ish grocery store locate downtown, not something massive like sobey's or S.O.B.'s as i like to call it. when i lived in ottawa my neighbourhood grocery store was a great example of a mixed-use building. a former bank with grocery on the main level and affordable housing above. i don't have a photo but found this sketch.

there are similar examples in other cities but not here...naturally.

[raisethehammer]

yea, Portland has a pile of grocery stores like that...if you look at their development thread you see them all over the place.
Hamilton still refuses to mandate proper development like that.

[miketoronto]

Not so great an idea. Any stores that open downtown need to be unique and offer something you can't get at Limridge.

The reason downtown Hamilton fell in the first place, is because all the stores you could find downtown opened branches in the malls.

Downtown Hamilton also has a large number of chain stores as it is, in the City Centre and Jackson Square.

I think Hamilton should look at other cities like Pittsburgh and Cincinnati to see that courting chain stores does not always work, as people are not going to come down unless the store offers something different from its suburban counterpart.

[raisethehammer]

good points Mike.
You're right - people from other parts of the city won't come downtown to shop at a Winners or HomeSense since they are surrounded by them in their suburban areas.
However, a big problem right now is that many downtown residents go out to those suburban areas to shop since the choices downtown are pretty slim.
Downtown Hamilton actually has a good number of neat, niche stores. It's one of the things I love about living downtown.
But I think we'll need to get some more of those 'basics' and department store types in order to keep local residents downtown to do their shopping instead of leaving for the burbs.
The great dining, nightlife, culture, arts and neat indy stores are what will draw suburban folks downtown....but they'll also browse their 'chains' while downtown too I would think, just like people do in other cities. Although at this point the focus is on the local residents and new residents moving downtown. There's a huge market of local residents who would love to do all their shopping downtown. Whether suburbanites come down is really irrelevant (in fact, I prefer if many of them don't).

[HAMRetrofit]

^these are some good points. Design will be key to weather or not this development will be a success. The stores should try to develop flagships in their downtown locations that offer unique experiences over the suburbs.

[SteelTown]

I don't mind if we get some big box to the downtown. Though I would perfer it be all along a street with streetfront instead of what Toronto did with putting them all in one new mall, Toronto Life Square (mini Time Square version).

And yes a grocery store is aboustely mandatory definitely needed!

[raisethehammer]

I agree with above references to flagship stores as opposed to TO's big mall.
Boston, Montreal, New York all have flagships at street level on their downtown streets.
That would be great.

[flar]

I don't think downtown stores need to be unique or independent. We have as much of that as the city can support already in Westdale, Dundas, Concession, Locke, Ottawa, James North and Barton. Get the big draws downtown. Look at all the highrises in Durand and Corktown. People live downtown and go out to the Meadowlands, Limeridge or Burlington for big box shopping, why not have it downtown. Again though, no big box format buildings, use existing structures.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by flar

I don't think downtown stores need to be unique or independent. We have as much of that as the city can support already in Westdale, Dundas, Concession, Locke, Ottawa, James North and Barton. Get the big draws downtown. Look at all the highrises in Durand and Corktown. People live downtown and go out to the Meadowlands, Limeridge or Burlington for big box shopping, why not have it downtown. Again though, no big box format buildings, use existing structures.

bang on.

[theman23]

More coffee times and tim hortons please!

[DC83]

Exactly! As a downtown resident myself, I often find myself shopping at malls or suburbs for things I KNOW I need (ie Homesense, etc).
However, if I want to browse, I tend to walk along KingW, Locke, etc. And I usually end up buying, too.

Miketoronto stated that Pittsburgh's core isn't working b/c it has chain stores?? This is totally false. Downtown Pittsburgh is BUSTLING (much to my surprise, actually)!!! And they have Macy's, Saks 5th Ave and a bunch of other chain stores. They're concentrated along one street (I 4get the name) making IT a shopping destination.

As for WalMart, I'm sure everyone in this forum would agree that it would be the worst mistake Marini could make re: downtown retail.

I would LOVE to see:
Winners
HomeSense
HMV
The Bay (in my dreams), or I'd even settle for a Zellers!

EDIT: downtown Hamilton needs more bakeries! Another thing I love about Montréal is that they have this chain "Le Pain D'Oré" everywhere in the city. And they make awesome fresh breads and pastries etc. So I have to add Le Pain D'Oré to my retailers wish-list.

[matt602]

I think that downtown we already have a fair offering of independant, unique stores. A mix of chain stores downtown would compliment this well as it would get a new audience downtown who would see the unique stores they never notice and maybe open up their wallets. They'll come for the stuff they know, but discover something new. When they go up to Limeridge, there is nothing to discover. They always come back with the same bags in their hands.

Downtown defnitely NEEDS a grocery store. The Farmers Market is fine for speciality things such as meat, vegetables/fruit, breads but it's not a quick one stop shop. It's more of an "experience" shopping. If you live right in the core and want a normal grocery store, you've got quite the walk or even drive ahead of you, either to Fortinos at Dundurn in the West or No Frills at Tisdale in the East. Both too far to walk if you'll be carrying heavy bags as well.

Where I live in the Barton/Woodward area I've got a selection of 2 grocery stores within fairly easy walking distance (Price Chopper at Barton/Strathearne and Sobey's at Nash Queenston). One of them is even 24hrs. Both of these stores are crowded on any day of the week, too.

[DC83]

^^ I think they're courting Sobeys (for a downtown store) b/c it's open 24HRS.

And ya, grocery shopping downtown sucks. I usually go to the market to buy my meats/cheeses/some veggies. But you're right, when it comes time for a good grocery shopping trip, I have to walk to Dundurn for Fortinos/Zarkey's. It's a good 45min'ish walk from my place. Plus the market's hours aren't reflective of most poeple's schedules anymore.

If they were to open a Sobey's downtown, I'd more than likely still shop at Fortino's however at least I would have an option. I mean, if I ever wake up and want fresh bread I would have to walk to Fortino's/No Frills. But if they were to open a Sobey's at say John/Wilson, it would knock a good 25mins off my walk time.

[matt602]

I think Sobey's could be a very nice thing for downtown. There are some Sobey's stores in downtown Toronto that are very tasteful. Not the standard big box, stucco cubes that you usually see but actual market style stores with mixed use on other levels.

Much like this building on Front St. which Sobey's bought and is turning into a store. Those huge garage doors will probably be incorporated into some kind of indoor/outdoor fruit market.



And this one in downtown Edmonton:

[DC83]

Where is that on Front?
They already have one at Front/Church which is in the main level of a condo/apt bldg of some sort.

There's also a GREAT one at Gould/Mutual in the old Sears Warehouse bldg... gorgeous gorgeous Loft Conversion.

[the dude]

this city doesn't understand mixed use, so i'll believe it when i see it. those parking lots are perfect for a big box store.

[raisethehammer]

sadly, I think dude is right. those pics above would be great in the Hammer.
I bet we'll end up with little 'box nodes' around downtown - Ferguson/Barton, Main/Hess, Barton/Queen etc....
this city is clueless with this kind of thing.