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  #81  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2008, 5:11 PM
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waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
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hazeldean and huntmar updated site plan... 4 drivethroughs! (plus the petrocan site which looks like a car wash and sometimes they have qsr there too)


Last edited by waterloowarrior; Apr 22, 2009 at 2:59 AM.
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  #82  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2008, 6:16 PM
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quick and dirty version of that power centre if the buildings were facing the street.... (I didn't add any new buildings like residential, only rearranged the proposed ones, and just filled the empty space with parking, which I guess could be used as a park n ride for the nearby transit station if they made a deal with the city or something) edit: not that malls/power centres are usually willing to do that....

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  #83  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2008, 6:53 PM
DEVPLAN DEVPLAN is offline
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Hey everyone.

I've enjoyed reading your forum and thought I'd join in the conversation.

Warrior - I agree with your idea of creating a traditional mainstreet setting along Huntmar which would greatly complement and be utilized by the Mattamy community.

I think the gas station however needs to be located on Hazeldean since they rely on visibility and passing traffic for business. We both know gas stations can be designed more asthetically which could occure here.

The anchor and mid boxes could be pushed to the street front but retailers are just starting to warm up to the concept of having two entrances. There are increased costs for both the landlord and tenant in doing so. The loading for these boxes would also have to be redesigned to create a more attractive and safe pedestrian environment for the majority of the people who will drive to the site.

Although the site does not show pedestrian connections through the parking field, the City of Ottawa will definately require them. I'm curious to see how this site is eventually developed.
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  #84  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2008, 7:35 PM
clynnog clynnog is offline
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quick and dirty version of that power centre if the buildings were facing the street.... (I didn't add any new buildings like residential, only rearranged the proposed ones, and just filled the empty space with parking, which I guess could be used as a park n ride for the nearby transit station if they made a deal with the city or something) edit: not that malls/power centres are usually willing to do that....
Waterloo Warrior...where is the original source of the SP drawing...is it on the City web site....and how did you re-configure it yourself.

The next poster is correct...there is no way P-Can will go mid block....gas stations want to be on corners or nothing...I can't think of a mid block station built or revamped in years in Ottawa.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2008, 8:09 PM
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waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
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Welcome to the forum Devplan!

The two entrances is really hard to put in because of theft prevention from what I've heard. My rough plan would have them only at the front, but there would still ideally be some way to put some 'eyes' on the parking lot. On the other hand, with the sizes of the parking lots of many power centres today (and the lack of activity at night), I don't think this would actually be any less safe for drivers a than traditional power centre. Pedestrians (nondriving ones) would definitely feel safer walking along the street than having to walk through a huge parking lot to get to their destination, I think it would encourage many nearby to walk/bike rather than drive.

Ideally of course there'd be residential on top of these stores, but in my limited experience many commercial companies are unwilling to do this in suburban locations outside of Toronto (although I've seen a couple of sites where shoppers has offices on top of their stores). If there were more mixed uses it would encourage activities outside of the regular shopping hours and increase the safety as well.

I agree with what you both mentioned about the gas stations, I just needed to put it somewhere and didn't want to break up my streetwall concept, especially on the corner Ideally there wouldn't be a gas station on a major corner with all the streetfront retail and rapid transit, perhaps the next secondary road would be more appropriate, or switch it with the retail block at the NW corner of the site etc. on another note, there's a new gas station going up kitty corner to scotiabank place on the city's website.

I got the original from centrecorp's website and used photoshop to modify it (mostly cutting the stores, creating new layers, moving things around, filling in the rest with parking). If I used Adobe Illustrator it would have been a lot cleaner, but I didn't really have time to.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2008, 8:58 PM
c_speed3108 c_speed3108 is offline
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Welcome to the forum Devplan!

The two entrances is really hard to put in because of theft prevention from what I've heard. My rough plan would have them only at the front, but there would still ideally be some way to put some 'eyes' on the parking lot. On the other hand, with the sizes of the parking lots of many power centres today (and the lack of activity at night), I don't think this would actually be any less safe for drivers a than traditional power centre. Pedestrians (nondriving ones) would definitely feel safer walking along the street than having to walk through a huge parking lot to get to their destination, I think it would encourage many nearby to walk/bike rather than drive.

Ideally of course there'd be residential on top of these stores, but in my limited experience many commercial companies are unwilling to do this in suburban locations outside of Toronto (although I've seen a couple of sites where shoppers has offices on top of their stores). If there were more mixed uses it would encourage activities outside of the regular shopping hours and increase the safety as well.

I agree with what you both mentioned about the gas stations, I just needed to put it somewhere and didn't want to break up my streetwall concept, especially on the corner Ideally there wouldn't be a gas station on a major corner with all the streetfront retail and rapid transit, perhaps the next secondary road would be more appropriate, or switch it with the retail block at the NW corner of the site etc. on another note, there's a new gas station going up kitty corner to scotiabank place on the city's website.

I got the original from centrecorp's website and used photoshop to modify it (mostly cutting the stores, creating new layers, moving things around, filling in the rest with parking). If I used Adobe Illustrator it would have been a lot cleaner, but I didn't really have time to.
The biggest bug in what you have drawn is the loading docks. No one would want to have to negotiate with transport trucks to access a store.

Personally I prefer a design where the parking is beside the store. This way the store can have only one entrance, still be against the street (so you don't have to cross a parking lot to get from the bus to the store. Plus the trucks have easy access to the back of the building via a separate access road from the street on the other side of the building away from the pedestrians.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2008, 9:39 PM
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The biggest bug in what you have drawn is the loading docks. No one would want to have to negotiate with transport trucks to access a store.

Personally I prefer a design where the parking is beside the store. This way the store can have only one entrance, still be against the street (so you don't have to cross a parking lot to get from the bus to the store. Plus the trucks have easy access to the back of the building via a separate access road from the street on the other side of the building away from the pedestrians.
Yeah I didn't bother fixing those (quick and dirty version), I'm sure they could be reconfigured.

It's nice that they are closer to the street (better than the setback version like Innes Wal-Mart), but one problem with that is it creates big gaps on the street, with no activity except for parking lots and trees screening them and the occaisional PAD. The people walking along the street face blank walls from the side of the building rather than storefronts. It may not seem important, but it creates an unattractive streetscape and an unpleasant walk. It doesn't attract the type of development or stores a mainstreet environment does (still autocentric)
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  #88  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2008, 10:14 PM
clynnog clynnog is offline
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not sure about the chance of approval, but I bet they'll have to give some section 37 contributions to improve the area


hazeldean and huntmar updated site plan... 4 drivethroughs! (plus the petrocan site which looks like a car wash and sometimes they have qsr there too)

That parking to the north of the loading docks must be to satisfy the crazy parking standards somehow....if anybody were to use it they would be the employees.
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  #89  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2008, 2:58 AM
c_speed3108 c_speed3108 is offline
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Yeah I didn't bother fixing those (quick and dirty version), I'm sure they could be reconfigured.

It's nice that they are closer to the street (better than the setback version like Innes Wal-Mart), but one problem with that is it creates big gaps on the street, with no activity except for parking lots and trees screening them and the occaisional PAD. The people walking along the street face blank walls from the side of the building rather than storefronts. It may not seem important, but it creates an unattractive streetscape and an unpleasant walk. It doesn't attract the type of development or stores a mainstreet environment does (still autocentric)

Yes I know the parking was rough. The point was that the loading docks will still have to be back there and you end with the people interacting with trucks problem.

Having grown up out in the burbs (and beyond) and spent enough time on Innes road and the like, I can say realistically no one is walking to these places. Frankly Inness road is the last place I care to take a walk in Orleans. There is nice pathways which give a much shorter trip than streets do. This is one characteristic the suburbs have: If you walking avoid streets because they are much longer. None the less to go Walmart or Future shop there is a vehicle involved. Now we would prefer a bus to to car certainly but we will get both at these places. So I always really judged these things on what I get when I get off a bus. What I get with Walmart on Innes is a HUGE walk across a HUGE parking lot. If you right angled the store to the street you would not have to cross any roadways since it could T- right off the street. The experience for someone arriving in a car (lets say with kids in tow) remains roughly the same: no trucks, just regular parking lot traffic.

The benefit for the store is that if they put the signage on their building (front and back) towards the street end of the building they are also more visible than a mile in. They also can stick with there current store layouts and have parking visible from the street (which most retailers deem important for reason I do not understand..even the ones on Bank Street can not possibly lose that one parking space in front of their store).

These developments seem to have no issue with attracting stores..they are good for that. The innes area now has more square footage than Place D'Orleans which has never been full since they expanded it almost 20 years ago.

The amazing thing is since Walmart moved to Innes I have only set foot in it once and I was actually meeting a friend at Boston Pizza and arrived a bit early and need to kill time. I bought nothing. At the mall I was in the store at least once a week. The mall has a transit station....enough said.

A diagram of what I had in mind for say where Walmart is on Innes. The other small restaurants can go along the rest of the frontage as they are now.

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  #90  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2008, 3:34 AM
bradnixon bradnixon is offline
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A diagram of what I had in mind for say where Walmart is on Innes. The other small restaurants can go along the rest of the frontage as they are now.

That is exactly what was done at College Square (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...6609&t=h&z=17).

It's certainly better than having a huge parking lot between the road and the store, but it still leaves a blank wall along the road at the side of the store.
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  #91  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2008, 11:25 AM
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While not a power centre development, there was recently a development in Uptown Waterloo which I think is a good example of how lots of parking can be maintained while creating a positive street presence. It could be easily modified for a power centre, and brings a thought to mind: why not try to integrate office uses in a mixed-use development?

Courtesy of Cambridgite:


The buildings on the left feature a huge parking lot in the rear. Primary access is still from the streetfront, and it seems to work well. I'm sure it could work in a more suburban location.
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  #92  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2008, 6:27 PM
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new building (homesense) at Merivale/Meadowlands...

http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/...appId=__6BLDAP
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  #93  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2008, 10:08 PM
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trinity march rd (at maxwell bridge/old carp)... next to the brookside community
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  #94  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 12:35 PM
clynnog clynnog is offline
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trinity march rd (at maxwell bridge/old carp)... next to the brookside community
Thanks for that link....same architects as the Laurentian HS redevelopment.

They must really want or require that access to Klondike as it looks like a lot of access road w/o any retail on it leading to Klondike.

That is one large sea of parking near March Road....I'm sure the Urban Design folks at Ottawa City Hall will want the buildings brought closer to the road.
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  #95  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2008, 4:46 PM
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another hazeldean power centre (between carp rd and stitsville main)
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/...appId=__6BXKBZ
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  #96  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2008, 4:55 AM
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here's one in cornwall we haven't talked about yet... it's called "Circle Square" and it's on an old Domtar construction materials site (Brookdale and Ninth St area, across from the Brookdale Mall). It potentially features a Lowe's, multiple drivethroughs, sea of parking, etc.

http://www.nadg.com/html/properties/circlesquare.html

Site Plan

Aerial
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Development group reveals plans for former Domtar site in Cornwall
TERRY TINKESS
Correspondent

Cornwall residents who attended an information session August 6, 2008 got a first-hand look at how a large, private retail developer plans on remediating a large brownfield site near the city core.

North American Development Group plans to turn a former Domtar construction materials site into a prime retail location. The information session was held to inform the public about how the property will be remediated and what type of development it will eventually contain.

The site was previously used in the production of the company’s No-Co-Rode Pipe, which resulted in significant coal tar contamination of the property.

The Cornwall development, which is identified on the North American Development Group Web site as Circle Square encompasses just over 24 acres just east of Brookdale Avenue, one of the community’s main traffic arteries.

Conceptual drawings indicate a building area of 241,500 square feet spread over 13 buildable envelopes. There will be parking (tentatively) for more than 1,200 cars.

The project received conditional approval from the city’s planning advisory committee (PAC) in October 2007 and later from city council. The city has contributed financially to the project through its Brownfield Community Improvement Plan.

Approximately 92,000 cubic metres of impacted soil, debris and building demolition materials are expected to be removed from the site.

This might seem like a substantial amount of material, but according to Francois La Forge of Conestoga Rovers and Associates, the engineering firm contracted by North American Development Group to oversee remediation, the conditions on the site are relatively good.

“You’re talking about excavation of only two metres and I think 15 feet in one location,” says La Forge. “We’re lucky that the geology we’ve got right now is such that it’s an impermeable layer. We’ve got some sites where it’s 100 feet of sand.

“We’re using a relatively low-tech method to clean it up: backhoe and dumpsters to remove the material. It’s complete and it’s easy too — you excavate, you collect confirmatory soil samples at the base to make sure you have everything, you bring in clean material and you move on to the next sector. It’s easy, relatively economical, and there’s no guesswork with it.”

Anthony Crutcher, P. Eng, who is the project supervisor for Conestoga-Rovers says that this particular Brownfield site was selected for a couple reasons.

“The concept of developing this site came about because the City of Cornwall came up with a Brownfield funding program, which essentially helps fund the remediation of impacted sites,” says Crutcher. “A combination of that, and a local developer approaching Domtar and asking if they would be interested in remediating this site is what got it started.

“Within the City of Cornwall Brownfield sites, they targeted this one as a prime site for development and applying their Brownfields plan. They ultimately took it forward to a larger developer who I’m employed by, which is North American Development Group. They hired our firm and took it forward and asked us to go through the Brownfield funding, do the investigation on the site and see if can get it into a developable form. That’s where we are today.”

Crutcher says that the time frame for the project would see all remediation work completed by the spring-summer of 2009, with actual development to follow. Alternatively, sections of the site could be cleaned, receive certification and then be ready for development.

According to Crutcher, all the involved parties are anxious to get thing started.

“This is sort of a marquee-type project. It’s a large project, it’s going through full Brownfield funding,” says Crutcher. “It’s not just the city; the province is involved, the developer, the owner of the site, and they are all working like a partnership to make this happen.”
So the province and the city are subsidizing cleanup of the site so the developer can build a power centre!
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  #97  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2008, 12:49 PM
Kitchissippi Kitchissippi is online now
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Clean up? What's ironic is that there's probably less toxins in the tar-contaminated soil that they are removing than the asphalt for the parking lot that they are proposing.
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  #98  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2008, 12:53 PM
clynnog clynnog is offline
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
here's one in cornwall we haven't talked about yet... it's called "Circle Square" and it's on an old Domtar construction materials site (Brookdale and Ninth St area, across from the Brookdale Mall). It potentially features a Lowe's, multiple drivethroughs, sea of parking, etc.

So the province and the city are subsidizing cleanup of the site so the developer can build a power centre!
Having being involved in a couple of development projects in Corntown, this plan would go through like clockwork. The Planning Dep't may not be enamoured of it, but local Councillors and people in general would love the big box idea. Pitt Street has been a disaster at times (especially when it was pedestrian only.....many stores closed), and Brookfield is an ugly craptastic street where a lot of retail has gravitated to.

I think I've been past this property but it doesn't stick in my mind....you can reach it from the roundabout in town (the one that nobody knows how to signal on....but that is a rant for another day).

I believe that there is a Home Depot further to the north which Lowe's would compete with. Would this be the 1st Lowe's in eastern Ontario.
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  #99  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2008, 4:05 PM
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Findlay Creek Retail News...

Hi all,

I’m a usual passive observer on this site, always very interested in reading what is posted about this beautiful city of ours.

My wife and I live very close to the Findlay Creek area, and so I’ve taken this very rare occasion to post some new information that has come to our attention:

Members of your FCCA met with Taggart Realty this week to learn more about the commercial area. As explained by Taggart, the following tenants are 99% finalized:

- Sobeys – will open a 20,000 sq ft store and will expand it to 40,000 sq ft at a time that is deemed required.
- Shopper’s Drug Mart
- Medical clinic with 4 Doctors
- Scotiabank
- Tim Horton's
- Broadway
- Subway
- Canadian Tire and possibly a gas bas in Phase II – to be built/completed 1 to 2 years later.

Cheers Everyone ,and thanks to the well-informed for some good reads!!
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  #100  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2008, 4:57 PM
bradnixon bradnixon is offline
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Originally Posted by migo View Post
Hi all,

I’m a usual passive observer on this site, always very interested in reading what is posted about this beautiful city of ours.

My wife and I live very close to the Findlay Creek area, and so I’ve taken this very rare occasion to post some new information that has come to our attention:

Members of your FCCA met with Taggart Realty this week to learn more about the commercial area. As explained by Taggart, the following tenants are 99% finalized:

- Sobeys – will open a 20,000 sq ft store and will expand it to 40,000 sq ft at a time that is deemed required.
- Shopper’s Drug Mart
- Medical clinic with 4 Doctors
- Scotiabank
- Tim Horton's
- Broadway
- Subway
- Canadian Tire and possibly a gas bas in Phase II – to be built/completed 1 to 2 years later.

Cheers Everyone ,and thanks to the well-informed for some good reads!!
Hey Migo! Nice to see a fellow "Creeker" on here- I'm on Kelly Farm Dr.

It will be nice to get some community-level retail in the neighbourhood; I plan on walking to the store (and Broadway) often!

I haven't seen the site plan but I understand from the community association that there will be stores along Bank St. with parking hidden in behind. If I get my hand on it in electronic form I will post it!
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