Commuter rail not in B.C. transit plan

[SpongeG]

Commuter rail not in B.C. transit plan

Catching the TrainBus is catching on, says the president of West Coast Express.

Weekend service into Vancouver along the West Coast Express line just started this January and already about 30 people are using one of the buses.

"It was really quite surprising," said Doug Kelsey. "I was pleasantly surprised there was that kind of demand so quickly."

But don't look for any increase in the number of trains running into Vancouver, for a while yet.

TransLink has just started to digest the $14 billion Provincial Transit Plan announced last week and the West Coast Express wasn't part of it.

That doesn't mean the rail service will be ignored, a spokesman says.

"There's a lot of things that weren't referenced in the provincial plan that still have a home in the TransLink plan," said TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie.

For instance, building, or starting to build the Albion West Coast Express station in 2009 is still part of the plan.

The TrainBus is a 47-seat Greyhound style coach that stops at each of the train stations and follows the five trains into and out of Vancouver on weekdays.

The weekend expansion includes three trips on Saturdays in each direction and two trips on Sundays.

Adding the weekend service can be a prelude to regular train service, but that all depends on where TransLink puts the West Coast Express in its 10-year plan.

"Service expansion for the West Coast Express will be part of the 10-year plan," Hardie said Tuesday.

Kelsey said West Coast Express is the best-rated service in all of TransLink. The main complaint he hears is there just aren't enough trains.

The service hits the mid-80-per-cent range in terms of recovering costs, he said. It carries 10,000 people a day and some times the cars are reaching capacity.

Maple Ridge Mayor Gordy Robson said Kelsey was meeting with council when the Provincial Transit Plan was announced Jan. 14, which included $10 billion for SkyTrain expansion.

"He's the president of SkyTrain and knew nothing about it. His face went ashen white," Robson said.

Kelsey told council that expanding rail service will be easier now that Bill C-11 has been approved by the Senate. The act will make it easier for public transit to access track time from CP Rail, something that should happen when West Coast Express's contract comes up for renewal in 2015.

Pitt Meadows Mayor Don MacLean would have loved to have seen commuter rail mentioned in last week's big announcement.

One easy step would be to run a midday train from Vancouver out to Mission and then back again, so people could take ride in the morning and not have to hang around all day for a return trip.

"It's not even an issue of money," he said noting the trains just sit there all day.

TransLink's currently trying to digest the Provincial Transit Plan as well as make the transition from board appointed by Metro Vancouver to the new structure handed down by the provincial government.

TransLink hasn't yet started on its 10-year plan and may just do another interim plan for a year before setting the long-term goals.

Hardie noted there also is demand for rail service on the south side of the Fraser River.

Maple Ridge council has written to TransLink asking the commuter rail line get more attention.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/14061972.html

[Jared]

I'd love to see the WCE expanded, with lines to Abbotsford and White Rock. Hopefully both would make a stop at a Surrey SkyTrain station, so people working in, say New West, could use it. As ridership builds, you can gruadually increase service and run it on weekends, and over the long term, turn it into a full fledged regional rail system.

I guess the problems are finding tracks, whether there's space at Waterfront, and the train bridge near the Patullo, which will hopefully be replaced eventually.

[twoNeurons]

i wonder if they'll ever build a station in Burnaby North

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Jared

I'd love to see the WCE expanded, with lines to Abbotsford and White Rock. Hopefully both would make a stop at a Surrey SkyTrain station, so people working in, say New West, could use it. As ridership builds, you can gruadually increase service and run it on weekends, and over the long term, turn it into a full fledged regional rail system.

I guess the problems are finding tracks, whether there's space at Waterfront, and the train bridge near the Patullo, which will hopefully be replaced eventually.

That would be nice, wouldn't it. The only real candidate for a connection to a Skytrain would be Scott Road station. The other Surrey stations are at the top of a big hill. Heavy Diesel locomotives don't do hills... at least not that steep. From Scott Road Skytrain it would continue South
intersecting at 120th and 92nd avenue in North Surrey, where a station would be (for the Nordel area)...

continuining on to another station serving Newton @ King George and 72nd,

onwards to the South side of Cloverdale, @176th and 56th...

then a stop down the road at Willowbrook,

one up at Trinity Western University close to 232nd & #1 TCH , which gets all the commuters from the #1,

and then finally a long hall to the east side of Abbotsford at Essendene and Gladys (Close to South Fraser Way).

And there you have it... a new Fraser Valley Express.

Of course, if you just want Abbotsford, you could just run an extension from Mission... but hey, why not do both? They'd leave from the same station in Abbotsford... but one would hit all the major destinations north of the Fraser, the other one would terminate at Scott Road (for the time being until the bridge is replaced) but hit the major metropolitan areas.

I think you'd get quite a few who commute from Langley and Newton if it didn't terminate at Scott Road. You may get some from the TCH, and a bunch from Abbotsford.

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by Jared

I'd love to see the WCE expanded, with lines to Abbotsford and White Rock. Hopefully both would make a stop at a Surrey SkyTrain station, so people working in, say New West, could use it. As ridership builds, you can gruadually increase service and run it on weekends, and over the long term, turn it into a full fledged regional rail system.

I guess the problems are finding tracks, whether there's space at Waterfront, and the train bridge near the Patullo, which will hopefully be replaced eventually.

So much more reason I was hoping they'd extend the Skytrain to Newton, to provide a connection point with the Southern Railway tracks.

If they get the train bridge replaced, the commuter trains should run all the way to Vancouver during peak hours to complement the Skytrain and carry some of its load, but terminate at a Skytrain station during off-peak hours to feed into it without cannibalizing its ridership.

Wouldn't commuter trains from south of Fraser be better off terminating at Pacific Central instead of Waterfront (with a stop at Broadway/Commercial Drive Skytrain station for easy transfer to the Expo and Millenium Lines)?

How about running the White Rock line all the way to Bellingham? Will it get enough riders to make it worthwhile?

[deasine]

Well according the WCE, you probably won't see any expansions until its contract expires in 2015 with CP Rail.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

Wouldn't commuter trains from south of Fraser be better off terminating at Pacific Central instead of Waterfront (with a stop at Broadway/Commercial Drive Skytrain station for easy transfer to the Expo and Millenium Lines)?

The stop at Broadway & Commercial would provide a good connection to the two Skytrain lines (and make a terminus at Pacific Central Station redundant since it provides an equivalent Skytrain transfer) - so I think a terminus at the CP Station would provide better overall connectivity. I think there is a plan in the works to build an overpass at the level railway crossing on Venables (in one of the plans for freight railway improvements).

[crazyjoeda]

They could build a commuter from White Rock to Vancouver, but I think a rapid bus system to the Canada Line in Richmond would be more efficient. Translink could have service between Bridge Port and White Rock every 10min during peak hours.

I know the current 351 bus service is over capacity, my friends tell me that they often miss their bus because it is full, and when they do get on they have to stand for 45min. I use to take that bus every day, and I noticed it got busier every year. I am actually a bit surprised because it costs $10 return, and for me it is now cheaper to drive.

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by crazyjoeda

They could build a commuter from White Rock to Vancouver, but I think a rapid bus system to the Canada Line in Richmond would be more efficient. Translink could have service between Bridge Port and White Rock every 10min during peak hours.

I know the current 351 bus service is over capacity, my friends tell me that they often miss their bus because it is full, and when they do get on they have to stand for 45min. I use to take that bus every day, and I noticed it got busier every year. I am actually a bit surprised because it costs $10 return, and for me it is now cheaper to drive.

But a DayPass for $9 instead. You get the same rides AND you don't have to worry about your transfer expiring.

[officedweller]

I thought a day pass was only valid AFTER the morning rush hours.
Edit - just checked - it says valid all day.

[twoNeurons]

And a Month Pass is even cheaper... and seriously... the gas expense may be cheaper... but but remember, you have to account for maintenance too. Works out to about $0.05 / km. Also need to change insurance to to/from work.

Add in that by using transit some are able to go from 2 cars to 1... and the fact that on the bus, you are driven, which can reduce stress levels... and it's not difficult to see the benefits.

[Dave2]

The Day Pass used to be valid only after 9:30; but I think that changed about the same time that Zone Fares started to apply all day.

[mr.x]

Transport minister responds

Letter
Published: Wednesday, January 23, 2008

The Fraser Valley is growing, and we know people want more transportation choice, including transit. Our $14-billion transit plan will add 600 frequent buses outside Metro Vancouver -- a 60- per-cent increase. B.C. Transit will be working with communities on detailed planning.

It is our duty to taxpayers to ensure the plans we make are fiscally responsible by allowing for a service that is appropriate for the population and density.

Chilliwack and Abbotsford have a combined population of 200,000. As these communities grow, density must increase to justify higher levels of service.

Ultimately, we expect to have new RapidBus B.C. service out to Chilliwack. These buses may run in separate lanes, have signal priority. And underpasses and overpasses will be built so these buses can zip by the normal traffic. It's a very exciting, innovative, economically viable and appropriate option for the valley.

By 2030, SkyTrain will extend out to Langley, integrating rapid buses with rapid transit in Metro Vancouver.

Also, the West Coast Express runs from Mission in the valley directly into Downtown Vancouver. The province and local governments will study together the potential use of the Southern Rail Corridor (the Interurban) for transit.

Kevin Falcon,

Minister of Transport

[crazyjoeda]

Originally Posted by tintinium

And a Month Pass is even cheaper... and seriously... the gas expense may be cheaper... but but remember, you have to account for maintenance too. Works out to about $0.05 / km. Also need to change insurance to to/from work.

Add in that by using transit some are able to go from 2 cars to 1... and the fact that on the bus, you are driven, which can reduce stress levels... and it's not difficult to see the benefits.

I know the bus does have many advantages. I live in White Rock, but not walking distance to a bus stop, so I need to insure car anyways and drive to the park and ride. I travel to Vancouver often, but not for work; I went to school there, so I have many friends in Vancouver including my girlfriend. Since I'm not going right downtown I don't need to pay for parking, so it works out cheaper to drive. My point is that I feel the bus fares are far to expensive; look at other cities around the world, Translink is among the most expensive.

[twoNeurons]

I think the key is that transit is expensive... for your situation. Not within walking distance of a bus stop, connections for free parking, 100% availability of a car. That's fine, that's what the roads are for. However, in general, I'm not sure you can call translink "expensive" based only on your situation.

EG. off-peak from White Rock to Vancouver is $2.75. That's pretty cheap... but not everyone travels off-peak.

I don't know a LOT of systems... but London's system is definitely more expensive. They use the Zone system.

I haven't crunched the numbers, but it would be interesting to see a $/km for Translink, peak and off-peak.
Surrey is about $0.19/km from Downtown.
New West about $0.18.
Langley is even cheaper.

Expensive trips would be East Van to Metrotown, at almost $1 per km. However, that is cut in half after peak... and the trip time is so short, short trips can be had on the same ticket.

All calculations are done at full-fare price... though rarely do I see people pay full-fare, but rather, they use fare-savers.

According to http://www.cooperativeauto.net/quest...rs/faq/#link10This site

Remember that the monthly fee and the prices for usage include almost everything: insurance, gas, cleaning, maintenance, and BCAA membership! Your savings really hinges on your usage. The typical cost of a vehicle driven in the Lower Mainland is 56.4¢ per kilometre (based on 2000 statistics from CAA) or about $8000 per year. Or one can consider that a car will cost about $200 per month to finance and/or purchase, $100+ per month to insure, $100 for gas, plus an average of $100 to maintain. That's $500 per month without including depreciation, parking, and those little (or HUGE) $$$ surprises!

Of course, that's inflated, but I think most people can count about half of that.

[bugsy]

Needs more trains!