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Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > SSP: Local Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure

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  #281  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 3:28 AM
windscar windscar is offline
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Completely awesome deasine, although I think the evergreen line should run from Coast Meridian & Dominion to UBC and have the Millennium Line from waterfront to UBC, I think the combined service would be needed. But still fi that map did happen I still wouldn't wine about it. Anyway heres hope I finally finish my fantasy map soon.

P.S. again awesome work deasine
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  #282  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 5:25 AM
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Originally Posted by deasine View Post
I don't understand the concept of loops either, especially if they are interlined, which is a total nightmare for transportation operators. If one thing goes wrong, the entire thing will be down.
For a ring line, the passenger can take it to transfer between 2 lines that goes from downtown to the suburbs without having to transfer at downtown, thus saving time in traveling (although this cannot really apply to Vancouver's case). Another benefit is that, if one part of the ring breaks down, the line can quickly become an arc line, so the train can turn around to avoid the problem area completely and without affecting the frequency of service in the other parts. If the ring is interlined, then if one part break down, the train from the other line(s) will still have another path to go to their destination. This will ensure that other path will have enough capacity to carry the extra people, as well as still maintaining a somewhat even headway throughout the line (assuming the detour is not too long). It would be much easier if the system is automated too because they can just reverse direction in and out of a station if needed. Just imagine if Commerical is to connect with Broadway, if Metrotown breaks down, only some of the expo trains will be stop and go in the Broadway-Columbia area, while the other can quickly revert or change route and go to Surrey via Lougheed.
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  #283  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 10:20 AM
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Here's an interesting thought for you guys:
Being the son of a councilor of Langley Township, I know that a few of the people in council are pushing to have higher density along the 200th street corridor south of Walnut Grove. One proposal in the works is for a highrise in the vicinity of the 200th street/highway 1 overpass. I s**t thee not. I don't even know if I should be saying this, but yeah. Because of the ALR, most of Langley's future growth will be concentrated in that street corridor.

Might want to consider this in your drawings- with that being a focal point of Langley's population growth since they just recently completed a large sports facility along 200th street to complement the Cineplex Colossus across the highway. This may spur some growth.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&cli...11494&t=h&z=14

Last edited by PROSTSHOCKER; Aug 15, 2009 at 10:25 AM. Reason: grammar
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  #284  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2009, 7:21 PM
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[Hmmm...the image wouldn't show. Here's a link...]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33649407@N06/3840735962/

Here's my vision of how the Skytrain system should look once the Evergreen line is built and the Millennium line is completed.

Given the large number of commuters moving between town centres (outside of downtown Vancouver), having the Evergreen line go from Coquitlam to Surrey makes sense.

The Millennium line is the true East-West rapid transit connector, going all the way from Coquitlam to UBC, meeting up with the Expo line at Commercial/Brodway, and the Canada Line at Broadway/City Hall.

I'd really like to see a spur that goes through the West End--a lot of people live there!. It doesn't have to be the Canada Line (as I've drawn). Now that I think of it, the Expo Line may be better. So, every 2nd train leaving from King George (or further when the Surrey extension is built) branches off at Stadium, heading SW to Davie/Burrard, Davie/Denman, Stanley Park, and Waterfront.


(P.S. Sorry for the sloppiness of the pic, but I don't have a lot of time so I just used a map I found on the Internet (from Wikipedia, I think) and touched it up with MS Paint.

Last edited by mrjauk; Aug 20, 2009 at 7:23 PM. Reason: Image wouldn't attach
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  #285  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2009, 9:04 PM
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Took some time making this map by getting a bunch of chunks from google maps and tediously stitching them together. Dunno the exact scale, but the little distance thing was measured in 1 mile increments. Total image size is 1600 by 3200. I'm not going to put it up because it's too damn big, but I will link you guys if you want to use it to make reasonably detailed route lay-outs.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123/Canadian_Mind/GVRDTransitBaseMaP.jpg
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  #286  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2009, 9:35 PM
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^ thanks....will work on it when I got time
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  #287  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2009, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Mind View Post
Took some time making this map by getting a bunch of chunks from google maps and tediously stitching them together. Dunno the exact scale, but the little distance thing was measured in 1 mile increments. Total image size is 1600 by 3200. I'm not going to put it up because it's too damn big, but I will link you guys if you want to use it to make reasonably detailed route lay-outs.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123/Canadian_Mind/GVRDTransitBaseMaP.jpg
Awesome! Thanks so much, this will make everyone's lives so much easier
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  #288  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2009, 3:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mrjauk View Post
Given the large number of commuters moving between town centres (outside of downtown Vancouver), having the Evergreen line go from Coquitlam to Surrey makes sense.
Interesting idea, though I'd have to disagree pretty strongly with your setup. I realize you're trying to improve connectivity (i.e. by providing a one-seat ride) between Coquitlam and Surrey, but it's at the cost of robbing the system of higher capacities at the busiest parts. Specifically, the interlining in Surrey means Expo's pinch point (Broadway-Main St in the AM peak hour) and the interlining in Coquitlam means what will likely be the busiest part of the Millennium Line (Commercial-VCC in the AM peak) will both have much lower frequencies than they otherwise could. I think a better set-up would be to take advantage of the new Port Mann and run some rail from Coquitlam Centre to Surrey Centre that way instead. Not only could it provide a one seat ride, but it also serves an area that doesn't yet have higher order transit (i.e. Guildford).

From a technical standpoint though, I think it's possible, though the track geometry was never set up for this sort of thing.

You could probably do something at Lougheed, as both the existing Millennium Line and future Evergreen have a North-South route along North Road before both turning West to Lougheed Station. Building a bit of guideway to connect the two, with the appropriate track switches (or flyovers like at Bridgeport, if necessary). At Columbia, I suppose you could probably do something where the trains pull onto the Expo mainline, and then switch directions, and head over the SkyBridge. Although, this will significantly interfere with Expo Line frequency. The only other option would be to tunnel a giant U-turn under New West so the train can come turn around.

I'm also not entirely sold on the West End thing. As a downtown circulator, a tunneled system is pretty much useless. Station access time (getting from street level to platform level) would more than cancel out any time benefits of faster operating speeds (i.e., would anyone here bother taking SkyTrain from Burrard to Granville - even if it was free - when you can walk there faster?). For that sort of thing, a think the planned Streetcar would work a lot better.

Of course, a reroute of Canada Line or Expo Line to the West End would make it easier for people to travel between the West End and areas outside of downtown, but, again, it would come at the cost of diminished service quality for the region's #1 transit trip generator, the central buisness district. I'm not entirely sure the benefits outweight the (service quality) costs.
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Last edited by Jared; Aug 21, 2009 at 3:12 AM.
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  #289  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2009, 3:12 AM
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Why not have a surrey-coquitlam the line simply pull a sharp right turn after crossing skybridge? In addition to this, why not either avoid lougheed altogether aswell, or have a second station/platform for people heading west on Millenium line?

Eventually I'd like to see evergreen loop up through poko, back down through Coquitlam, and across the Port Mann into Surrey. I couldn't give you guys exact ROEs based on my knowledge fo the area (sucks horribly), but if you look at my previously posted fantasy in this thread and follow the Green Line you'll know what I mean.
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  #290  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2009, 4:02 AM
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Why not build space for future light rail in the new Patullo? That way you could have it split off at Scott Road or Gateway and go to Sapperton. That would free up capacity at Columbia. While this is in no way necessary right now, I could see it being so in 20 years as the Tri-cities and Surrey both grow. It would definitely be a practical consideration for a new bridge.
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  #291  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2009, 4:15 AM
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Design it to handle both lines going east and lines going west, so that we don't have to worry about replacing skybridge 40 years down road.
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  #292  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2009, 9:03 AM
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Exclamation Good Planning. Good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spork View Post
Why not build space for future light rail in the new Patullo? That way you could have it split off at Scott Road or Gateway and go to Sapperton. That would free up capacity at Columbia. While this is in no way necessary right now, I could see it being so in 20 years as the Tri-cities and Surrey both grow. It would definitely be a practical consideration for a new bridge.
Great idea. Shows foresight. They should do that with any major new automobile bridge: include capacities for rapid transit. What planners haven't yet realized is this; where the transit goes, DEVELOPMENT WILL FOLLOW. Example: If you had a rapid rail station at an empty junction somewhere in the valley, very soon there'd be an IKEA or a HOME DEPOT beside it, then a shopping mall, then apartment complexes, then houses, and finally a town centre. One can "plan" future development patterns by placing the transit there FIRST. This of course means several years of "no money" at the as-yet empty stations, but that would change - FAST !!

Being proactive is the name of the game in low-density population areas
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  #293  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2009, 9:10 AM
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Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post
Great idea. Shows foresight. They should do that with any major new automobile bridge: include capacities for rapid transit. What planners haven't yet realized is this; where the transit goes, DEVELOPMENT WILL FOLLOW. Example: If you had a rapid rail station at an empty junction somewhere in the valley, very soon there'd be an IKEA or a HOME DEPOT beside it, then a shopping mall, then apartment complexes, then houses, and finally a town centre. One can "plan" future development patterns by placing the transit there FIRST. This of course means several years of "no money" at the as-yet empty stations, but that would change - FAST !!

Being proactive is the name of the game in low-density population areas
From what I know, all bridges so far built since the Alex Fraser (except Golden Ears and there is no need for that) has had provisions for LRT.

Planners have realized this and has planned it now. Why do we see city centres along SkyTrain stns? Why is Brentwood so much larger than it was before? Why is Metrotown still growing? Why will Oakridge become Vancouver's next municpal centre? Why are there so many developments in Richmond Centre around Richmond-Brighouse Stn? Why is Capstan a future stn?

I really hope big box stores aren't around stns because that defeats the purpose of transit, unless they are built like the ones on Cambie.
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  #294  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2009, 9:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Mind View Post
Took some time making this map by getting a bunch of chunks from google maps and tediously stitching them together. Dunno the exact scale, but the little distance thing was measured in 1 mile increments. Total image size is 1600 by 3200. I'm not going to put it up because it's too damn big, but I will link you guys if you want to use it to make reasonably detailed route lay-outs.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123/Canadian_Mind/GVRDTransitBaseMaP.jpg

Thanks for the map!!

With it I created this:

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink
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  #295  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2009, 4:52 AM
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My super-quick SkyTrain system in twenty year's time.

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  #296  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2009, 5:34 AM
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Nice. :-) But does Burnaby merit a 3rd line before Surrey gets a 2nd line? Remember which city is going to be much larger by then.
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  #297  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2009, 12:11 PM
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I'll move my question here from "I Support Extending SkyTrain To UBC" by UBC SkyTrain Group. I'm just interested in specifically if there are any more Skytrain lines to built in Vancouver proper after Millennium Line to UBC, and how realistic the ideas are.
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  #298  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2009, 4:32 PM
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My super-quick SkyTrain system in twenty year's time.

This is very similar to one I had drawn up several months ago and is burried somewhere in this thread. The only thing i think your map is missing is an E/W line across vancouver, preferably on 41st or on Marine if 41st is not feasable.

I really like the line down willingdon, and included that in my map as well, as it links many high denisity neighbourhoods, BCIT and would take some of the strain off Commercial station.

In my map I also had skytrain or LRT running down E/W along 104th, intersecting with the expo line, then running N/S down Scott Rd.
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  #299  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2009, 8:26 PM
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Arrow bad example on my part . . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
From what I know, all bridges so far built since the Alex Fraser (except Golden Ears and there is no need for that) has had provisions for LRT.

Planners have realized this and has planned it now. Why do we see city centres along SkyTrain stns? Why is Brentwood so much larger than it was before? Why is Metrotown still growing? Why will Oakridge become Vancouver's next municpal centre? Why are there so many developments in Richmond Centre around Richmond-Brighouse Stn? Why is Capstan a future stn?

I really hope big box stores aren't around stns because that defeats the purpose of transit, unless they are built like the ones on Cambie.
When I said that a store like Home Depot or IKEA would first appear, I wasn't referring specifically to big ugly "box stores." I don't like them any more than you do.

What I SHOULD have said was that some kind of commercial development will appear, because it is easy for people to get to by transit, and from there, a town centre of some sort will germinate.

It could be a very attractive thing visually. It could be just about anything (and if there are aesthetic bylaws in place, this will discipline the look of what goes there first).

What I meant in a nutshell was: where the train stations go, development will follow. It's a kind of proactive planning, if you get my drift.
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  #300  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2009, 8:33 PM
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Thumbs up I second that

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Originally Posted by windscar View Post
Completely awesome deasine, although I think the evergreen line should run from Coast Meridian & Dominion to UBC and have the Millennium Line from waterfront to UBC, I think the combined service would be needed. But still fi that map did happen I still wouldn't wine about it. Anyway heres hope I finally finish my fantasy map soon.

P.S. again awesome work deasine

Sorry, never had a chance to say it before, but Deasine's plan is "nonpareil."
I think that we should adopt it as the official, long-term transit plan for the Metro Vancouver region.

(There must be a way, come to think of it. How could we do that; make it THE official reference map?)
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