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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2008, 5:48 PM
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A squeeze at Wrigley

Quote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,6296342.story

ANALYSIS

A squeeze at Wrigley
The ballpark's key features are safe, but law allows some room for change
By Blair Kamin | TRIBUNE CRITIC
March 13, 2008

As the Cubs and a state-backed sports agency negotiate a possible deal that could lead to a major overhaul of 94-year-old Wrigley Field, at least two big hurdles stand in their path: The city law that confers Chicago landmark status on Wrigley, and Mayor Richard Daley, who balked last week at the prospect of relaxing the law..............
..
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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 5:20 AM
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LaSalle.St.Station LaSalle.St.Station is offline
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A Ball Park so Iconic they named a neighborhood after it.....

Zell...... Weird that the guy wants to sell the team to reduce debt on his Trib play, and yet is getting all intertwined with all these long term deals....
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  #23  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 9:02 PM
OhioGuy OhioGuy is offline
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People can argue for Zell all they want with regards to the financial issues, but I'll feel no sadness if during his final days it's a very long & painfully drawn out end. He has so much money and seems only interested in getting more at whatever cost. It's a big "f*ck you" to Chicago, the Wrigleyville neighborhood, and Cubs fans/baseball fans.

(bracing for a backlash from certain posters)
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 1:12 PM
LucasS6 LucasS6 is offline
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Yeah...you just wished a guy a painful death for talking about changing Wrigley Field. Time for you to step back and take a deep breath. Put that in perspective a bit and come back later.

Anyway, Wrigley Field won't be "lost" if they change the name. And they're not going to tear it down or renovate it TOO much because it IS the Cubs. If the Cubs played in Hoffman Estates or something people would slowly stop caring. The Yankees are about a tradition- of winning, Yankee Stadium has always been in the background, especially after the changes in the 70s. The Red Sox are about a tradition of being very competitive and almost (until recently) winning and a historic ballpark.

The Cubs are about the nightlife of the area, the ivy, the afternoon games in a gorgeous place. They're about watching games at Bernie's when you can't get tickets and partying with the crowd afterwards. They're about walking through the neighborhood around it drunk in a beautiful urban Chicago enviroment on a warm summer day.

The Cubs aren't about the team winning. That's beside the point. That's not why you go to a Cubs game. It's nice if they win. If they don't, that's cool too. Just like it's nice if Journey plays a great set, but the concert is still gonna be great for the atmosphere.

The Cubs know this. They know they rake in gate sales because it's more about the 81 concerts a year than it is about baseball. They're not going to move the Cubs or change Wrigley too much. So it's hardly "lost".
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  #25  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 8:55 PM
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Quote:
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/...doubts-wr.html

Daley doubts Wrigley sale to state will happenPosted by Gary Washburn at 2:58 p.m.

Mayor Richard Daley on Monday voiced doubt once again that the General Assembly will agree to a state purchase of Wrigley Field.

"You talk to anybody dealing with schools, you talk to anyone dealing with the problem of gun violence in society," Daley said. "These are priorities. And I don’t think (a Wrigley sale) is one of the priorities in Springfield."................
.....
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 9:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbotnyse View Post
what does this mean? The Cubs are a baseball team. It shouldnt matter where they play. They should be more concerned about winning a title, then what field they play on. I guess this mentality explains why every game at Wrigley is half filled with tourists and trixies who could care less whats actually happening on the field.
I disagree. The Cubs are popular because of the whole Cubs experience, which is heavily dependent both on the ballpark and on the neighborhood (Wrigleyville). Any sports fan knows that this isn't a Cubs town because of the stellar product they put on the field year in year out. The Cubs sell an experience, not just a sports game, which is why teams playing in soulless stadiums surrounded by acres of parking (Blackhawks, ahem) get miserable attendance when they suck. Why bother going if the experience sucks and the game sucks? I still go to Cubs games occasionally (CWS fan, personally) but it ain't for the baseball.
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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 9:10 PM
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^

....amen to Lucas
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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 9:51 PM
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Someone should start a grass roots funding campaign to raise enough money to rename the stadium with something objectionable - just to see if there's a limit to the greed.

I suggest "Massengill Disposable Douche Field".
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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
I disagree. The Cubs are popular because of the whole Cubs experience, which is heavily dependent both on the ballpark and on the neighborhood (Wrigleyville). Any sports fan knows that this isn't a Cubs town because of the stellar product they put on the field year in year out. The Cubs sell an experience, not just a sports game, which is why teams playing in soulless stadiums surrounded by acres of parking (Blackhawks, ahem) get miserable attendance when they suck. Why bother going if the experience sucks and the game sucks? I still go to Cubs games occasionally (CWS fan, personally) but it ain't for the baseball.
It was something I was happy to do last summer in my trip to Chicago. Having the whole Cubs experience was amazing. We sat way the hell out in outfield and it still felt like we were apart of the game. Even if the Cubs lost bad. You cant have Wrigleyville without Wrigley Ballpark.
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by LucasS6 View Post
The Cubs aren't about the team winning. That's beside the point. That's not why you go to a Cubs game. It's nice if they win. If they don't, that's cool too. Just like it's nice if Journey plays a great set, but the concert is still gonna be great for the atmosphere.
Sorry but this sounds delusional or an excuse for not winning a title for 100 years. Baseball is a business of winning, not who plays in the coolest park. If you ask true Cub, or should I say baseball fan, they'd gladly take a few World Series titles even if it meant playing somewhere else.. And if they win, revenues will not suffer from playing somewhere else, or under a different name.


I hope Wrigley stays. I think its a great historical landmark to the game of baseball. But lets not lose sight of what the Cubs goals are, which is winning, first and foremost.
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  #31  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LucasS6 View Post
The Yankees are about a tradition- of winning, Yankee Stadium has always been in the background, especially after the changes in the 70s.
Exactly. winning. Yankee Stadium is being replaced. Will they lose their fan base? Not if they keep dominating, or at least competing, every year.

So you're saying Cub fans would rather have a cool stadium then actually win anything? Am I misunderstanding you?
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  #32  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 11:28 PM
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Wow - I can't believe a off-hand mention about a stadium name change, a misguided debate over a ballpark sale to the state, and discussion of structural rehabilitation for the ballpark can inspire this much argument.

Nobody's remotely mentioned tearing down the ballpark, and certainly not moving the Cubs to anyplace else.

Just take a chill pill. No corporation is fool enough to totally change the name of Wrigley Field, a sale to the state is a horrible use of bond-issuing (and therefore unlikely for the foreseeable future), and structural rehabilitation will help Wrigley to stay around for ANOTHER century - so why are you all acting like the place is about to be demolished?

I personally welcome some sort of cosmetic upgrades to Wrigley. The place has looked like shit ever since the team mounted those concrete panels on the facade - stop acting like Wrigley has remained in stasis since it was built. It's the home of a baseball team, and the demands of the team and of fans evolve over time. Trying to keep Wrigley forever unchanged is a losing battle - either the stadium must adapt to changing usage through renovation, or it becomes obsolete and must be totally replaced. I believe that renovations and additions can be made in a tasteful and respectful manner, and the recent bleacher expansion has only demonstrated this.
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  #33  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbotnyse View Post
Sorry but this sounds delusional or an excuse for not winning a title for 100 years.
It doesn't really matter what it sounds like to you; it's the truth.

Quote:
Baseball is a business of winning, not who plays in the coolest park.
Baseball is a business of filling seats. Usually that's done through winning. It's not done that way for the Cubs. The team has went to the playoffs what 5 times in the last 30 years? That 5 times remains consistent if you go back seventy years.

Quote:
If you ask true Cub, or should I say baseball fan, they'd gladly take a few World Series titles even if it meant playing somewhere else.. And if they win, revenues will not suffer from playing somewhere else, or under a different name.
A 'true' Cub fan might tell you exactly what you said. But those aren't what fills up a 40 thousand seat building 81 times a summer.

It's like you're arguing what they should be (all about the winning) and not accepting what they ARE (an experience).


Quote:
I hope Wrigley stays. I think its a great historical landmark to the game of baseball. But lets not lose sight of what the Cubs goals are, which is winning, first and foremost.
That's not the goal for them. It's a perk.
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  #34  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 11:33 PM
LucasS6 LucasS6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbotnyse View Post
Exactly. winning. Yankee Stadium is being replaced. Will they lose their fan base? Not if they keep dominating, or at least competing, every year.
The Yankees aren't the Cubs. Or vice versa.

Quote:
So you're saying Cub fans would rather have a cool stadium then actually win anything? Am I misunderstanding you?
I think the majority of the people who go to Cubs games- who only loosely can be refered to as fans- would rather go to Wrigley and watch an 80 win team than they would go to Schaumburg and watch a 90 win team. "Cubs fans" do not necessarily equal "all the people that go to Cubs games". Half of them still think Grace is on first. Doesn't make the atmosphere any less fun at all.
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  #35  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 11:34 PM
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^ I'm sorry that is so ridiculous. You are simply wrong. These are professional baseball players, and they want to win. If you ask every individual in the Cubs organization, from top to bottom, they will tell you winning a title is the ultimate goal.
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  #36  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 11:35 PM
LucasS6 LucasS6 is offline
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^ I'm sorry that is so ridiculous. You are simply wrong. These are professional baseball players, and they want to win. If you ask every individual in the Cubs organization, from top to bottom, they will tell you winning a title is the ultimate goal.

And if you think that the Cubs would still be at 35,000+ in another stadium somewhere else, you're wrong.

Now which bottom line do you think owners are looking at?
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  #37  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by LucasS6 View Post
And if you think that the Cubs would still be at 35,000+ in another stadium somewhere else, you're wrong.

Now which bottom line do you think owners are looking at?
If they win, absolutely they will be. Winning teams in any sport have proved that, probably throughout history. I think you are insulting a lot of Cub fans. The true fans care about winning. Go over to a Cubs forum and ask that question. See whats more important, a title or wheere (or under what name) they play.
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  #38  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2008, 12:17 AM
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Wrigley Field will not be torn down. Wrigley Field's name won't change, and I don't care what any article says or what rumors start. Renovation is estimated around 250 mil. New yankee stadium will cost 1 bil. If other teams can afford to pay for new stadiums more than double or triple the cost of Wrigley's renovation, then the renovation will most certainly happen. A company putting its name on Wrigley is a PR disaster- companies weren't interested in paying anywhere near the amount it would've been worth it to the Red Sox to take that PR risk. Everyone does need to chill, and wait to see what happens. Chances are there will be some very creative branding involving parts of Wrigley Field and perhaps parts of Wrigleyville itself. I am a die hard fan, and in no way would I support a World Series winning Cubs organization if they sacrificed all that is left of historical sports tradition in this town. I take the red line to games and drink at the bars- there is nothing I'd rather do in life than enjoy a day at the ballpark and neighborhood, and even people like Zell know how important this is to a lot of others who share my views. I'm totally on the same page as you, VivaLFuego, about the experience being worth more than people sometimes perceive. I expect a lot of little things to eventually change about Wrigley perhaps, but not the name or the basic design of the ballpark once renovated. They will try to keep the gritty feel as much as possible.
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  #39  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2008, 1:00 AM
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I always thought sports stadiums were all about experience...otherwise everyone would just watch it on tv, right?
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  #40  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2008, 1:00 AM
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Originally Posted by GregBear24 View Post
I am a die hard fan, and in no way would I support a World Series winning Cubs organization if they sacrificed all that is left of historical sports tradition in this town.
how about a tradition of winning? not as important?
Quote:
I take the red line to games and drink at the bars- there is nothing I'd rather do in life than enjoy a day at the ballpark and neighborhood, and even people like Zell know how important this is to a lot of others who share my views.
You go ahead and enjoy that, while I take the red line south and enjoy a day at the ballpark, and a World Series winning team.
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