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  #961  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2009, 9:21 PM
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I rather see trolley service along Barton.
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  #962  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2009, 1:16 AM
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Originally Posted by crhayes View Post
LOL... I don't see one North American car in the whole picture.
I guess that's because the North American cars broke down before they could take the picture!
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  #963  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2009, 2:27 AM
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Originally Posted by emge View Post
Regarding the King/Main split, the RTH article was a good read and I see how it's worked there -- but as far as costs go, I don't see our city wanting to pitch in for the more expensive option at all.
Which is considered the more expensive option?
A Main/King split or two-way LRT on Main throughout the downtown?
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  #964  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2009, 2:54 AM
markbarbera markbarbera is offline
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A preliminary study done last year showed the King/Main split option woud be considerably more expensive than 2-way LRT on Main alone.
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  #965  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2009, 2:57 AM
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The two sets of tracks (I'm guessing) is what makes it more expensive? Seems logical enough. I just assumed that was the case.

Last edited by emge; Apr 9, 2009 at 3:08 AM.
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  #966  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2009, 3:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emge View Post
The two sets of tracks (I'm guessing) is what makes it more expensive? Seems logical enough. I just assumed that was the case.
Me too, I would consider putting the two tracks together to be a cost saving option and a maintenance saving option.

However, logical and how a City's bureaucracy views something...
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  #967  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2009, 3:17 AM
markbarbera markbarbera is offline
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here is a link to last year's feasibility study

The study estimates the cost of constructing one-way LRT rail on a road at $15m/km, and the cost of placing both lanes on one road at $25m/km. The distance from University Plaza to Eastgate via Main Street is about 16km. The return trip via King is 17km. If LRT is run along Main alone, the cost of the rail construction would be about 16x$25m, or $400 million, while the cost of running the split lane concept would be 16x$15m + 17@$15m, or $495 million. So, running both lanes of LRT along Main is $95 million more cost effective.
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  #968  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2009, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbarbera View Post
here is a link to last year's feasibility study

The study estimates the cost of constructing one-way LRT rail on a road at $15m/km, and the cost of placing both lanes on one road at $25m/km. The distance from University Plaza to Eastgate via Main Street is about 16km. The return trip via King is 17km. If LRT is run along Main alone, the cost of the rail construction would be about 16x$25m, or $400 million, while the cost of running the split lane concept would be 16x$15m + 17@$15m, or $495 million. So, running both lanes of LRT along Main is $95 million more cost effective.
That might mean nothing if they feel that it's more effort to convert roads to two way or have a two-way LRT on Main as the thin end of the wedge.
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  #969  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2009, 4:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbarbera View Post
here is a link to last year's feasibility study

The study estimates the cost of constructing one-way LRT rail on a road at $15m/km, and the cost of placing both lanes on one road at $25m/km. The distance from University Plaza to Eastgate via Main Street is about 16km. The return trip via King is 17km. If LRT is run along Main alone, the cost of the rail construction would be about 16x$25m, or $400 million, while the cost of running the split lane concept would be 16x$15m + 17@$15m, or $495 million. So, running both lanes of LRT along Main is $95 million more cost effective.
Thanks for that info. Good to have numbers to put to the concepts.
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  #970  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2009, 11:59 PM
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Tons of really interesting information on possible LRT for Hamilton here.....

Rapid Transit Corporate Working Team Workshop, Technical Advisory Committee and Corridor Property Owner Meetings
http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyre...r20PW09034.pdf

Interesting part is that according to that report 1 way LRT might be cheaper than 2 way LRT.

Last edited by SteelTown; Apr 17, 2009 at 12:14 AM.
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  #971  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2009, 12:25 AM
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Hamilton's Rapid Transit Office will go ahead with standard track gauge (1.435 m). Other specifications:

Vehicle Weight (Empty, average) 41 000 kg
Vehicle Weight (Full, average) 63 000 kg
Single Vehicle Height (may vary according to pantograph height) 3.9 m
Single Vehicle Length (average) (constrained by intersection spacing) 28 m
Single Vehicle Width 2.65 m
Horizontal Vehicle Clearance (total) 1.0 m
Vertical Vehicle Clearance (minimum) 4 m
Ballast/Track Bed Depth (average) 0.74 m
Passengers (seated/standing, average) 60/130

It'll either be Bombardier Flexity Outlook or Siemens Combino Plus.
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  #972  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2009, 1:00 AM
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I think the Bombardier rolling stock looks a little nicer. Personal opinion only.


Photo from flickr

Not sure if these are the same Bombardier trams as those mentioned above, however these are the trams in Nottingham and funnily enough that's the restaurant I had my goodbye dinner in when I went up to Nottingham to say bye to my colleagues after being made redundant. I saw several of these trams go past during the course of the meal. This street is also used by cars and buses.

BTW, the Nottingham tram system started off as one line and now has the green light, five years after the completion of the first line, for an expansion which will create an additional line and an extension to the original line.

BBC News

Last edited by omro; Apr 17, 2009 at 1:15 AM.
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  #973  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2009, 12:53 PM
markbarbera markbarbera is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
Tons of really interesting information on possible LRT for Hamilton here.....

Rapid Transit Corporate Working Team Workshop, Technical Advisory Committee and Corridor Property Owner Meetings
http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyre...r20PW09034.pdf

Interesting part is that according to that report 1 way LRT might be cheaper than 2 way LRT.
This is a good read.

Steeltown, if you are referring to the costing detailed in table 1 of the report, please bear in mind this is referencing the cost to reconfigure subsurface infrastructure only (sewers, gas lines, water pipes) and not the overall cost for building the rail component. This is a small fraction of the overall cost for building the rail. The embedded track system is where 1-way LRT becomes significantly more expensive to lay than 2-way.

OMRO, I am with you . I prefer the Bombardier rolling stock as well. And I'd be happier if we would source a Canadian company for an infrastructure project like this.
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  #974  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2009, 1:00 PM
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When it comes to purchasing vechicles for public transit the city has a bylaw that it must be Canadian produced, hence New Flyer for the buses.

Do Siemens make their LRT in Canada? I know there's a few Siemens factories in Canada, even one in Hamilton.

Also from the report it looks like the Rapid Transit Office has ruled out any two way LRT on Main St. Narrowed down to two way LRT on King or one way LRT on King/Main.

From the report.....
Two options for the corridor segment between Paradise Road and the Delta

o Option A – convert both King Street and Main Street to two-way operation, with median LRT operation on King Street
o Option B – retain one-way operation with LRT in curb lane or in second lane
o Contra-flow schemes not recommended for safety reasons
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  #975  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2009, 1:22 PM
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The Combino is built in Krefeld-Uerdingen, Germany.
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  #976  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2009, 9:40 PM
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o Contra-flow schemes not recommended for safety reasons
What??

Two-way LRT is commonplace!
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  #977  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2009, 12:07 AM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
When it comes to purchasing vechicles for public transit the city has a bylaw that it must be Canadian produced, hence New Flyer for the buses.

Do Siemens make their LRT in Canada? I know there's a few Siemens factories in Canada, even one in Hamilton.

Also from the report it looks like the Rapid Transit Office has ruled out any two way LRT on Main St. Narrowed down to two way LRT on King or one way LRT on King/Main.

From the report.....
Two options for the corridor segment between Paradise Road and the Delta

o Option A – convert both King Street and Main Street to two-way operation, with median LRT operation on King Street
o Option B – retain one-way operation with LRT in curb lane or in second lane
o Contra-flow schemes not recommended for safety reasons
Siemens' plant for LRT cars is in San Diego. At least for the ones in Calgary and Edmonton.
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  #978  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2009, 4:59 PM
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It'll either be Bombardier Flexity Outlook or Siemens Combino Plus.
Bombardier wins $1.3B deal to build Toronto streetcars

TORONTO — The Toronto Transit Commission has chosen Bombardier Inc. (TSX:BBD.B) for a contract worth more than $1.2 billion to supply 204 new streetcars.

The procurement recommendation from the staff of the country's largest transit authority envisages spending $993 million for the streetcars, plus $293.1 million for spare parts, options and other items, a total of $1.29 billion including taxes.

After GST rebates, the total expected cost is $1.22 billion.

Two companies were in the running to replace Toronto's aging streetcar fleet: Bombardier Transportation Canada, which has been making streetcars for decades in Thunder Bay, Ont., and Germany's Siemens.

Siemens had put forward a substantially higher bid -- $1.525 billion for the streetcars, or about 50 per cent more than the Bombardier bid.

Both companies had promised that at least one-quarter of the production work would be done in Canada.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...24?hub=Toronto



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  #979  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2009, 5:34 PM
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I've been on those streetcars and they're awesome. They aren't built in Canada though. I guess some of the parts will be built in Thunder Bay.
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  #980  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2009, 10:24 PM
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That street car is very attractive... the concept for the inside is nice as well!
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