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  #61  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 1:30 AM
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I think the idea of a White House Office on Urban Policy is fascinating.
In an Obama regime, it would have less to do with what you imagine and more to do with pork, redistribution of wealth to the political base, and class warfare.
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  #62  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 4:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Dragonheart8588 View Post
Well, if all the engineers are so smart and ingenious, shouldn't the problem be fixed by now instead the bitching and moaning.

Also, who created and designed theses highways in the first place? Engineers, right?

I love science and I'm all for more engineers. However, we lawyers are ready with our pens and paper to sue the crap out of you guys when y'all screw up. J/k.

I hope y'all can read the jokes in my response.
It's funny how much truth underwrites your "joke" above. Many people actually blame engineers for the fact that we still have terrible traffic in Atlanta, decades after recognizing it was a problem. The funny thing is, engineers and planners largely agree on a lot of possible solutions; the transit vision for the metro area is incredible. Yet it lacks the political will to ever be implemented, because of a combination of leadership that doesn't care and citizens who refuse to change how their counties approach transportation.

I swear every day I hear someone say "Why can't they come up with something better?" Well, they have come up with something better. But as my first planning teacher always told us: planners do not make policy, they merely suggest to lawmakers what policy should be implemented; it's up to the politicians to make it happen.

If engineers ruled the world, this stuff would have been taken care of years ago. And a sound national energy policy? We would have had one before most of the world even knew what global warming was. But instead we live in a country where politics and being re-elected is more important than effective, creative problem solving.

Not that I'm biased at all....I've got a degree in Civil Engineering from Tech and I'm proud of it
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  #63  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 2:28 PM
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Before we can agree on an energy policy, we have to agree on what causes global warming....

Let's not forget that Congress legislated drilling in Anwar in 1996, and Clinton vetoed it. Twelve years later we could now be enjoying that increase in supply.

Those of you who say we don't need cars, stop using them already!
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  #64  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 2:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
Before we can agree on an energy policy, we have to agree on what causes global warming....

Let's not forget that Congress legislated drilling in Anwar in 1996, and Clinton vetoed it. Twelve years later we could now be enjoying that increase in supply.

Those of you who say we don't need cars, stop using them already!
Have you ever been to arctic wildlife refuge?
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  #65  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 2:57 PM
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  #66  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 3:20 PM
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Last edited by Andrea; Jun 9, 2008 at 1:47 AM.
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  #67  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 3:29 PM
GNofAtlanta GNofAtlanta is offline
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YEAH!!! Welcome back!....and good points.

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Originally Posted by Andrea View Post
There's some truth in that. Our two engineer presidents both had great ideas and tried to bring sensible solutions to many issues, but they were confounded by the implacability of the corporate special interests who really run the country.

Jimmy Carter was telling us we needed to address the energy crisis 30 years ago, but he made the mistake of believing that intelligence and integrity could get the job done. Instead, we've simply added lanes to the freeways, encouraged low density sprawl, ignored transit and refused to impose meaningful fuel economy standards.

Poor Herbert Hoover was a Republican but would be considered a wild-eyed liberal by today's right-wing dominated media. Hoover raised taxes, cancelled oil drilling on public lands, created a vast array of government regulatory agencies and appointed brilliant "activist" judges to the Supreme Court like Benjamin Cardozo. Unfortunately Hoover also thought that sensible engineering solutions would work, but like Carter he was unable to control the corporate special interests.
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  #68  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 4:02 PM
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Before we can agree on an energy policy, we have to agree on what causes global warming....
Any sensible person already does....including 99% of the scientific community. The problem is that many "scientists" are willing to publish conflicting reports to the highest bidder so that people remain confused about the subject. To someone who isn't paying attention to where these articles come from or who doesn't care to look at the science itself (which most people don't), this makes it seem like global warming is still a contentious issue.

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Those of you who say we don't need cars, stop using them already!
No one ever said we don't need cars....only that we should also invest in other transportation alternatives, shift to smarter development models, and pursue alternative sources of energy for the cars that people do need. It's ridiculous that we still rely so heavily on coal, oil, and other fossil fuels. As for getting rid of the car.....I plan to in August, but only after I move to a city where it's much easier to do so.
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  #69  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 4:05 PM
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Last edited by Andrea; Jun 9, 2008 at 1:48 AM.
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  #70  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 4:07 PM
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Global "warming" is 99% a result of variances in solar radiation. Cyclic variances are being detected on Mars are in sync with those on Earth.
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  #71  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 4:10 PM
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I also see where there would be value in electing an African American president. It would go a long way in symbolizing some healing of the deep racial divides which have plagued our country for so long.
I fear that an Obama presidency would exacerbate class and racial divides.
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  #72  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 4:13 PM
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Last edited by Andrea; Jun 9, 2008 at 1:48 AM.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 4:21 PM
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Global "warming" is 99% a result of variances in solar radiation. Cyclic variances are being detected on Mars are in sync with those on Earth.
I agree Fiorenza and I am a ragging liberal. I don't by into the crap that humans are causing global warming. However, what is the harm in developing clean technologies? What I believe is that we are poisoning ourselves. Look at the rate of cancer deaths today compared to 3 decades ago. Also, look how many species of animals that are going extinct.

So Fiorenza, do you care about your fellow man and animals or is it more important to you to drive an SUV and shop at Wal-Mart and buy all their China goods? And we all know China is a champion for the environment.

If you say YES to the question above I am going to open a can whip ass on you.
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  #74  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 4:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
I fear that an Obama presidency would exacerbate class and racial divides.
I don't. I think it will equalize it.
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  #75  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 4:27 PM
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BD,

I will go with your idea that clean is better for the environment. That's why we have EPA. Thus, we don't need a new bureaucracy. And yes, I'm trying to be enviro conscious. Marta is smarta.

Re Obama, I'm concerned about some of the things said by himself, his wife, and those around him. However, that's not the main reason I oppose him.
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  #76  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
BD,

I will go with your idea that clean is better for the environment. That's why we have EPA. Thus, we don't need a new bureaucracy. And yes, I'm trying to be enviro conscious. Marta is smarta.

Re Obama, I'm concerned about some of the things said by he, his wife, and those around him. However, that's not the main reason I oppose him.
Have you not heard some of the things grandpa has said (McCain)? What I find completely nuts is that this is the best the repugs can do. For christsakes the average man in the US dies at 75 and you guys want to bring this 71 year old into the most powerful position in the world. Come on folks that is just nuts.

As for Obama, he had the opportunity to play the race card with his pastor, but he took the high road. Unfortunately, I have listened to his pastor and I agree with him on 99.9% of the things he said. I didn't appreciate Obama selling out his pastor.
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  #77  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 4:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrea View Post
I'm not sure I understand that, Dante. I know a whole slew of people working for Obama and they haven't been secretive about it at all.

I'm not quite as star struck about Obama as you are and don't see him as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Nonetheless I do think the country needs a president who can bring the warring factions together. I really miss the old days when Democrats and Republicans were able to work together and actually get things done. Give me an Eisenhower and a Truman and an LBJ. These days we’re constantly mired in these ridiculous partisan logjams about idiotic issues like who can get married and whether the planet was created 8,000 years ago and whether you can carry your gun on the bus.

I also see where there would be value in electing an African American president. It would go a long way in symbolizing some healing of the deep racial divides which have plagued our country for so long. It might also signal to the rest of the world that the U.S. is not the arrogant old fuddy-duddy that so many seem to think we are but that we’re actually pretty hip. Tell those smarty-pants Brits and Canadians and Aussies to try that on for size!
Two points. I wasn't suggesting Obama's staff was secret, just they weren't controversial or news making. Also, I don't support Obama because he is black. I could care less. It was a process of elimination for me. I cannot support the current Republican agenda and I cannot support the Clinton agenda. I had no other choices. Given that I do think he is a capable leader with less ties to corruption and I think that is refreshing. I also understand the liberal agenda and unlike some, I understand that it does work.
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  #78  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 4:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BabydaddyATL View Post
Have you not heard some of the things grandpa has said (McCain)? What I find completely nuts is that this is the best the repugs can do. For christsakes the average man in the US dies at 75 and you guys want to bring this 71 year old into the most powerful position in the world. Come on folks that is just nuts.

As for Obama, he had the opportunity to play the race card with his pastor, but he took the high road. Unfortunately, I have listened to his pastor and I agree with him on 99.9% of the things he said. I didn't appreciate Obama selling out his pastor.
He didn't sell him out. He actually defended him until the pastor launched more outrageous attacks against Obama.
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  #79  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 5:02 PM
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Last edited by Andrea; Jun 9, 2008 at 1:48 AM.
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  #80  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2008, 5:05 PM
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Last edited by Andrea; Jun 9, 2008 at 1:48 AM.
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