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  #21  
Old Posted: May 5, 2008, 5:02 PM
Bucolic Urbanity Bucolic Urbanity is offline
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Perhaps Ms. Holmes will help you out - she'll probably think that 8 stories on that corner is too tall!
I believe that Diane Holmes got a bit too involved early on and then the matter of conflict of interest came up and the City went hands off.

I have the original PDF of the RFP but I don't know how to post links like that.
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  #22  
Old Posted: May 5, 2008, 6:43 PM
d_jeffrey d_jeffrey is offline
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Originally Posted by ajldub View Post
Maybe one of the professional planners on this site can clarify things for me, but hasn't it been shown time and again that building projects that are 100% public housing is a really bad idea?
What I would suggest is a subsidy directly for housing, based on income and family dependants. This way none of this complicated mess, the city has no value in buidling housing anyways, and being public, it just costs lots more in the end.
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If only "common sense" people had any.
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  #23  
Old Posted: May 5, 2008, 6:58 PM
adam-machiavelli adam-machiavelli is offline
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I too support mixed housing in theory. However, there are many many examples of mixed housing where lower income/subsidized residents felt or were subjected to behaviour by more wealthier residents (with more legal resources at the ready) with the intention of kicking them out of the building just because they think the value of their condo will go up by $5-10k for doing so.

Last edited by adam-machiavelli; May 5, 2008 at 7:35 PM.
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  #24  
Old Posted: May 5, 2008, 7:31 PM
c_speed3108 c_speed3108 is offline
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The tricky thing about mixed developments is while everyone seems to support the idea in principle, when it comes to laying hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table...people run.

or as another poster said, if they don't run it creates a class structure in buildings/complexes which does not do anyone any good either.


I am personally a more of a fan of a) trying to protect against the rising costs of housing and b) helping those in lower incomes improve there economic position through the opportunities available around them so that they can then afford reasonably priced properties.
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  #25  
Old Posted: May 5, 2008, 8:28 PM
the capital urbanite the capital urbanite is offline
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...I'd like to see better integration with the YMCA.

Aren't they supposed to renovating the YMCA tower?...why not extend the Courtyard concept into the YMCA lot?
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  #26  
Old Posted: May 5, 2008, 9:18 PM
c_speed3108 c_speed3108 is offline
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Originally Posted by the capital urbanite View Post
...I'd like to see better integration with the YMCA.

Aren't they supposed to renovating the YMCA tower?...why not extend the Courtyard concept into the YMCA lot?
Nice idea!
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  #27  
Old Posted: May 6, 2008, 4:00 PM
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Mille Sabords Mille Sabords is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c_speed3108 View Post
The tricky thing about mixed developments is while everyone seems to support the idea in principle, when it comes to laying hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table...people run.

or as another poster said, if they don't run it creates a class structure in buildings/complexes which does not do anyone any good either.

I am personally a more of a fan of a) trying to protect against the rising costs of housing and b) helping those in lower incomes improve there economic position through the opportunities available around them so that they can then afford reasonably priced properties.
I spent some time thinking about this and they are very good points. It is not a simple matter to pin down with a single solution, though, because economic conditions change and may require different tools and types of responses.

For example: instituting a housing subsidy to poorer households is a good approach in theory and works best in a context of economic stability or prosperity. But in times of economic instability or recession, there are potentially more households to subsidize at a time when tax revenues may also drop from a slowdown in growth, lower amounts of user fees collected, fewer building permits issued, fewer development charges collected, etc. How does a municipality navigate such a system of support through time and economic ups and downs?

On the other hand, for all the trouble that comes with it, housing stock constitutes an immobile asset which a municipality can leverage, or lease out for revenue to a management company, or package as a safe type of REIT with a rate of return that approximates government bonds, since there is virtually no vacancy in assisted housing units and rent increases (and therefore rates of return), along with operating costs, are predictable.

And, on your other point regarding buyers unwilling to purchase next to subsidized housing: Yes, that is the experience. Which is why so many eyes are on Regent Park as it unfolds. The bet they are making is that, through urban design, the streetscape will be integrated in such a way as to mask the difference between a subsidized building and a market building. Much as in older urban fabrics (and in older European cities), where a streetscape is a succession of contiguous buildings and a passerby won't know who lives in them because they all have storefronts along the sidewalk, Regent Park has gone boldly toward a genuine type of urbanity that will allow buildings to meld into a streetscape and therefore create a "place", or a neighbourhood, where the tenure matters less than the overall desirability of living there (because it is lively, close to everything, convenient, walkable, etc.).

We have been treating subsidized housing as "sites" and isolating them, either geographically or through urban design blunders like setbacks, side yards, etc., that make them identifiable and prone to standing out, when in fact we should be integrating those buildings as completely as possible with their neighbours to stitch an urban fabric that won't let you tell the difference.
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  #28  
Old Posted: Jul 11, 2008, 4:41 PM
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  #29  
Old Posted: Jul 11, 2008, 7:37 PM
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Ottawa.ca downtown development page
424 Metcalfe
Proposed redevelopment - former Beaver Barracks property
Type: Private non-profit rental apartments and townhouses
Developer: Centretown Citizens Ottawa Non-profit Housing Corporation (CCOC)
Architect: Barry Hobin
Units: 185
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  #30  
Old Posted: Jul 16, 2008, 5:01 PM
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application page on the city's website is up
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  #31  
Old Posted: Jul 17, 2008, 3:53 PM
c_speed3108 c_speed3108 is offline
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For a non-profit, I must say, this looks pretty darn good
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  #32  
Old Posted: Aug 21, 2008, 1:17 PM
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WTF..

http://www.ottawasun.com/News/Ottawa...21256-sun.html

Quote:

New station coming down

City's building on site for housing 'poor planning'

By LAURA CZEKAJ, SUN MEDIA


A paramedic post that cost the city about $600,000 to build four years ago with funds from the Ontario government will be torn down as part of a new affordable housing development.

In what is being called a case of "poor planning" on the part of the municipality, the station on the northwest corner of Catherine and Metcalfe streets will be demolished and incorporated into the Beaver Barracks affordable housing development to maximum use of the space.

DEMOLITION COSTLY

When the first stage of the project is complete, including the construction of three buildings, one of which will house the new paramedic post, the second stage will begin with construction on the former station site.

The cost of demolishing the existing post and including it in the new design will cost the Centretown Citizens Ottawa Corporation about $100,000. Altogether, the first phase of the project will cost about $26 million.

The non-profit housing provider has received $8.5 million from the three levels of government through the Affordable Housing Initiative. The remaining $18 million will be financed.

What makes the demolition of the post even more curious is why the site was selected in the first place.

The city inherited the property from the region, which had purchased it from the federal government to build affordable housing.

Somerset Coun. Diane Holmes said whoever selected the property as the site for the paramedic station either wasn't aware of its intended use or was swayed by the fact it was city-owned and didn't require the purchase of another property.

"I think it was an expedient move," she says. "There was a need for a new site and here was a piece of land the city owned, but in fact it was a very poor use of the site."

The cost of building the station was drawn from capital funding provided by the province as part of the transfer of paramedic services to the city.

The station serves as a rest stop for paramedics who have space to park their ambulance between calls.

"It seems evident that it's poor planning," says Kevin Gaudet, Ontario director for the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.

To have a new building that has to be torn down to accommodate a newer building, at the initial expense of the taxpayer, is an absurd waste of money, Gaudet says.

CHOSEN FOR LOCATION

The city-owned plot of land was chosen largely for its accessibility to the Queensway and downtown.

"The intent was to get housing on that site from day one and it wasn't really fair or appropriate to hold up the paramedics' post while we were waiting to sort out the housing problem," said city housing director Russell Mawby.

It wasn't until after the station was built that the province provided funding allowing affordable housing on that site to move forward.

Paramedic deputy chief Pierre Poirier doesn't anticipate any impact on service or response times since the new post will be completed before the existing one is demolished.

CCOC intends to break ground on the first batch of buildings this fall.
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  #33  
Old Posted: Aug 21, 2008, 1:59 PM
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I've always wondered about that paramedic station. Even before the Beaver Barracks project took shape there is the nice old apartment building next door, the Windsor Arms. The logic of putting a potentially noisy paramedic station next to an apartment building always escaped me.
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  #34  
Old Posted: Oct 17, 2008, 2:47 AM
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Contamination delays sale of Beaver Barracks site
Wednesday, 08 October 2008
By Megan Haynes
Centretown News

A disagreement has delayed the sale of the property owned by the city at 424 Metcalfe St. to a nonprofit housing corporation.

The land, better known as Beaver Barracks, is contaminated with old pipes and other leftover waste, and the interpretation of who is responsible to clean up the site has delayed the sale of the property until Nov. 26.

The city will determine where it can provide funding support after it receives a revised budget from the Centretown Citizens Ottawa Corporation, an organization that deals with low-income and

sustainable housing. The CCOC plans to buy the vacant property from the city for one dollar andturn it into 140 units of low-income residences.

Russell Mawby, the city’s housing director, says Ottawa has a legal obligation to ensure the site is clean enough to build on.

Because the CCOC wants to dig out a hole in the ground and fill it with concrete, Mawby says there is an issue over who is responsible to pay to remove the soil and dump it.

“It’s never been a secret [the ground is contaminated],” says Catherine Boucher of the CCOC.

“What we understood was that the city’s real estate and property department had set aside money toremediate the site.”

The site has been cleaned up to current environmental standards, says Mawby. He explains the ground isn’t contaminated with chemicals or dangerous materials, but is full of garbage and debris left over from its previous dwellers. Mawby stresses the soil isn’t dangerous; rather just pricey to remove.

“I think it’s a little disingenuous for the city to say we’ll do the work to decontaminate the soil, so long as you don’t dig,” says Boucher.

The cost to clear out the dirt is estimated at $600,000 which the CCOC doesn’t have, says Boucher.

“We’re a non-profit corporation. We’re not Minto. The money has to come out of the project itself. So either our building is less sustainable or less affordable,” she adds.

Because the units will be low income housing, the city can’t let the CCOC raise the rent prices, says Mawby.

The city and the CCOC are working on the revised budget, which will be presented to the council within the next few weeks, says Mawby.

However, Kanata North Coun. Marianne Wilkinson says the city simply doesn’t have the money to cover these costs.

“Right now, we have to find $57 million in cuts,” she says. But she adds she is willing to wait for the revised budget before saying that the city cannot provide funding.

Somerset Coun. Diane Holmes, who proposed the motion to defer the sale, says the city has an obligationto clean up the site.

“We’re squabbling over $600,000, and we’ll be getting that paid back with 50 years of property taxes,” says Holmes.

Boucher says the cost of construction will go up once the ground freezes and as the price of steel continues to climb.

These factors will be included in the resubmitted budget, which Boucher wants to have at councilbefore the end of the month.
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  #35  
Old Posted: Oct 17, 2008, 1:58 PM
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“We’re squabbling over $600,000, and we’ll be getting that paid back with 50 years of property taxes,” says Holmes.

Amazing how she does not recognize this when it comes to development charge relief in her ward.
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  #36  
Old Posted: Oct 17, 2008, 2:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ottawatraffic View Post
“We’re squabbling over $600,000, and we’ll be getting that paid back with 50 years of property taxes,” says Holmes.

Amazing how she does not recognize this when it comes to development charge relief in her ward.
How unfortunately true that is.
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  #37  
Old Posted: Nov 8, 2008, 6:50 PM
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  #38  
Old Posted: Feb 26, 2009, 5:31 PM
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  #39  
Old Posted: Feb 27, 2009, 11:38 PM
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is there a reason why its so short?
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  #40  
Old Posted: Feb 28, 2009, 2:21 AM
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Probably due the extremely close proximity to the Queensway (nothing like owning a penthouse that looks out on to highway traffic!) and the close proximity to the nature museum. It would be a bit of shame to brood over such a nice looking castle
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