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  #1  
Old Posted: May 22, 2008, 4:21 AM
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waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
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Intensification Forum - Join the experts (Clewes & more), hear them debate the issues

http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/publi.../index_en.html


Session One: An Evening with Dimitri Roussopoulos, founder and CEO of Urban Ecology
How do we reconcile community aspirations for intensification with the principles of the Official Plan? Hosted by Councillor Clive Doucet.
May 27, 2008
7 to 9 p.m.
Council Chambers – City Hall
110 Laurier Avenue West

Session Two: Panel Discussion - The Economics of Intensification
The panel will discuss the “big picture” costs of sprawl and who pays for it.

Topics will also include tools to quantify the relative costs of different development patterns, a developer’s point of view of the real costs and the challenges of financing projects, and identifying the actual demand for intensification – from affordability to who’s driving the demand today and into the future.
May 29, 2007
7 to 9 p.m.
Ben Franklin Place – Former Council Chambers
101 Centrepointe Drive
Moderator
Kathleen Petty, Host, CBC Morning
Speakers:
Pamela Blais, Metropole Consultants, Toronto
Doug Pollard, Senior Researcher, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Rick Morris, Domicile Developments, Inc.
Ray Simpson, Hemson Consultants


Session 3: Panel Discussion - Intensification That Fits
Supporting Intensification Through Good Design and Collaboration

The panel will put forward their ideas on tall buildings, considering the local context for the design of national chain stores, how to find that perfect “fit” for intensification projects and cultivating productive relationships between all stakeholders when an intensification project is proposed.
Moderator:
Elisabeth Arnold, Former City Councillor and Former Director, Centre for Sustainable Community Development, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
Speakers:
Peter Clewes, Architects Alliance, Toronto
Dennis Eberhard & Tom Smith, Smart Centres
Michael Geller, Simon Fraser University
Basil Cavis, Canada Lands Company, Montreal
June 3, 2007
7 to 9 p.m.
Ben Franklin Pace – Former Council Chambers
101 Centrepointe Drive






Register for the Forum today!


Everyone will definitely want to visit Session 3.... given some of the recent discussions on the forum, I'm sure that Session 2 will also be quite interesting. I wish I was in Ottawa for this and not at school!
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  #2  
Old Posted: May 22, 2008, 11:37 AM
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I'll be at number three!
(Cool! It rymes!)

I'm No.8: Anyone else coming?

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  #3  
Old Posted: May 22, 2008, 7:37 PM
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I`m in Jonquiere, Quebec right now. But I wish I was going. A la prochaine!
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  #4  
Old Posted: May 23, 2008, 1:25 PM
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I planned on attending all three sessions. I guess I'll register for the third session too. Number "12"...
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  #5  
Old Posted: May 23, 2008, 10:02 PM
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I've registered for the first one. Something about having to travel to the 'burbs for a session about urban intensification strikes me as too ironic...
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  #6  
Old Posted: May 30, 2008, 12:19 PM
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I made the trip to the ol' debt-free land of Nepean to see the second one, "The Economics of Intensification". What an excellent session. Each of the speakers had many valuable and relevant things to say and for the city to ponder. It all boils down to political cojones but, when you get down to it, it's really not black magic to get the urban form we would want to see. Pamela Blais' outline on how development "pricing" is tilted toward low-density forms, and Ray Simpson's very lucid presentation on how people's habits must change and cities must embark on a conscious effort to pursue this type of change, were right on the money.
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  #7  
Old Posted: May 30, 2008, 8:40 PM
clynnog clynnog is offline
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Originally Posted by m0nkyman View Post
I've registered for the first one. Something about having to travel to the 'burbs for a session about urban intensification strikes me as too ironic...
I'm sure few people at the City of Ottawa twigged to the irony of the location of the session. That would require thinking out of the box and that kind of thing is verbotten at 110 Laurier.
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  #8  
Old Posted: Jun 1, 2008, 9:39 PM
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Increase number of DC zones to discourage sprawl, planning expert tells forum
By Peter Kovessy, Ottawa Business Journal Staff
Fri, May 30, 2008 12:00 PM EST

Ottawa can encourage intensification by expanding the number of geographic development charges zones to more accurately reflect the municipal costs of servicing sprawl, suggests a leading planning consultant.
Pamela Blais, the principal of Toronto-based Metropole Consultants, praised Ottawa's current zone-based development charges policy that levies different levels of fees on development inside the Greenbelt, outside the Greenbelt, and in the rural area.

However, she suggested the city could go further in introducing policies to discourage sprawl during a town hall meeting Thursday evening on the economics of intensification.

"Efficient development subsidizes inefficient development under average costing," she said.

"The prices we charge for different development don't reflect the price of different types of development."

Ms. Blais was joined on the panel discussion by three other planning experts, including Rick Morris, vice-president of Ottawa-based Domicile Developments, who explained the costs of a successful infill project to an audience of roughly 100 people at Ben Franklin Place in Nepean.

Holding a $400 copper elbow joint in his hand to illustrate his point, Mr. Morris said rising demand for raw materials from India and China is contributing to construction costs increasing faster than the general inflation rate.

He later said his company has found it usually requires a zoning amendment to permit an additional one or two storeys in order to make a project economical.

"The height limits (contained in the zoning bylaws) do not work in today's environment," he said.

Mr. Morris also shared his observations on intensification efforts in Westboro, where he said demand for residential units was driven by the increase in retail stores along Richmond Road, where the Mountain Equipment Co-op store spurred additional commercial development.

In separate presentations, Ray Simpson of Toronto-based Hemson Consultants argued there needs to be greater investment in public spaces such as streetscapes and parks to develop a market for intensified communities while Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. (CMHC) senior researcher Doug Pollard demonstrated a new software tool that estimates the costs of community developments and compares alternative development scenarios.

The software is expected to be available from the CMHC in the coming weeks, said Mr. Pollard.

The city's final forum on intensification is scheduled for June 3 at Ben Franklin Place and is titled, 'Intensification that fits: supporting intensification through good design and collaboration.'

Ongoing challenges are pushing Ottawa's infill developers outside the city core. See the
OBJ's story from May 20.
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  #9  
Old Posted: Jun 2, 2008, 4:44 AM
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a more negative take on the discussion at the forum....



Economics often drives city planning, expert warns

Citizens must police development to get the city they want, activist warns
Maria CookOttawa Citizen
Sunday, June 01, 2008

OTTAWA - Residents who want to protect neighbourhoods from over-scaled and ugly development must roll up their sleeves and get involved in the political and planning process, says a longtime Montreal urban activist.

"Do not think that it is the city-employed planners who are going to negotiate with the developers a development project in the public interest," says Dimitri Roussopoulos, founder and CEO of Urban Ecology, a think-tank on sustainable urban development.

"A lot of what happens in neighbourhoods and cities is driven by very influential and powerful economic interests," he told a public meeting on intensification at City Hall last week.

"If the citizenry of the City of Ottawa is not organized to survey and to watchdog the urban planning process ... you are screwed."

The city held two public forums last week to discuss its intensification policy, which aims to put more buildings and people within the urban boundary to limit costly suburban sprawl.

The policy is part of the city's official plan, which is currently under review and revision.

Intensification is supposed to be a good thing. Yet 200 people turned out last Tuesday, and another 130 people on Thursday at Ben Franklin Place in Nepean, mostly to protest the effects the policy has had in just a few years.

"They see their schools closing, their green space declining and the quality of life shrinking," says Capital Councillor Clive Doucet. "That's why you're seeing so much resistance from all the wards experiencing densification."

In theory, intensification is supposed to make a city more sustainable and cost-effective by making better use of limited resources such as land and municipal services. It saves money by not extending roads and services to suburbs. Higher density should create a more vital street life with more choices and activities.

In reality, communities are seeing excessive height and increased traffic, noise and shade. They are losing trees and amenities such as toboggan hills. Families with children are leaving. Meanwhile, developers continue to push for suburban development.

The negative effects are aggravated by the fact that central area taxes subsidize unsustainable sprawl, which further erodes Ottawa's character as a city of parks, trees, vistas and closeness to nature.

So far, under the aegis of intensification, Centretown, Vanier, Sandy Hill and Lowertown have seen highrises approved over the objections of residents.

The big money for developers is in high-end condos in established areas.
Rideau-Rockcliffe Councillor Jacques Legendre told the Tuesday meeting that he refuses to sit on the city's planning committee any longer because he is disenchanted with the disregard for zoning, the official plan and community design plans, all of which took years to develop.

"There's not much wrong with our current official plan," he said. "It has all the right words. The problem is that nobody, absolutely nobody, starting with the councillors around the table and city staff, pays the least attention to the principles in there. There's chapters about what is compatible intensification. That's what's ignored time and time again."

There is a disconnect between the fine words in the official plan and what people want and the reality of what actually gets built, says Mr. Doucet.

He says six storeys is usually the maximum building height with which
people are comfortable.

The problem is the policy planners who write about good intensification that fits well into neighbourhoods are not the same planners who negotiate with developers, he explains.

Those are site planners. They interpret intensification in a simplistic way, equating it with highrises, and regularly recommend zoning changes to accommodate developer demands for increased height on sites.

"After years of work on official plan and design guidelines, site planners then come forward to council and say they have talked to the developers and they want to change a six-storey height limit to 11 storeys," says Mr. Doucet.

Council often approves these requests because it is dominated by suburban and rural voices. "From a rural or suburban point of view, a tax grab is a good thing," says Mr. Doucet. "It pays for sprawl."

He has seen suburban councillors vote against two-storey buildings in their wards and in favour of 24-storey buildings in Centretown.

Rideau-Vanier Councillor Georges Bédard said the City of Ottawa has 20 years worth of land for houses and a century's worth for apartments without changes in zoning or expanding the urban boundary.

He suggests development should focus on brownfields and areas beyond the core where the city wants to boost transit ridership. Intensification applies equally, if not more, to newer areas and is fundamental to the success of public transit.

Mr. Roussopoulos said he wasn't surprised by the turnout at last week's public forums.

"People are taking their neighbourhoods and their cities with a seriousness that is without precedence in this country."

Public forum
The last session takes place Tuesday, from 7 to 9 p.m. at Ben Franklin Place (former Nepean council chambers.) The theme is "Intensification that fits: Supporting intensification through Design, Compatibility and Collaboration."

© Ottawa Citizen 2008
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  #10  
Old Posted: Jun 2, 2008, 12:23 PM
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Yeah, I'm surprised Maria Cook would write a piece like this one, she's usually more upbeat with respect to urbanization. Although the session with the councillors, from what I heard, was anything but a bridge-builder - it was more of a chance for a few councillors to grandstand and pump fists in front of their devotees. Nothing to do with city-building.
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  #11  
Old Posted: Jun 2, 2008, 12:29 PM
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And this is why people get upset and there are so many clashes between developers and communities. People have no faith in the official plan because exceptions are made on a regular basis. Of course, this also drives up the price of land because developers believe they can get away with going considerably beyond the height limit, and they also use this to generate windfall profits. The system is broken. There is something to be said about human scaled intensification, instead of putting monster towers up in lowrise communities.
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  #12  
Old Posted: Jun 2, 2008, 1:04 PM
d_jeffrey d_jeffrey is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
And this is why people get upset and there are so many clashes between developers and communities. People have no faith in the official plan because exceptions are made on a regular basis. Of course, this also drives up the price of land because developers believe they can get away with going considerably beyond the height limit, and they also use this to generate windfall profits. The system is broken. There is something to be said about human scaled intensification, instead of putting monster towers up in lowrise communities.
Community plans are just another form of NIMBYism. There's a time where neighborhood's need to grow up. Clive Doucet seems to favor an european flair with his 6 storey high buildings, but it's too low to allow for a concrete shell and be cost effective. So you end up with cheaply made wooden frames. As I remember someone who mentioned in an article that neighborhood's should be frozen for 50 years. I find it ridiculous.

The problem is not with high rises, as many seem to point out. It's the lack of ammenities that come with these high rises. Where are the schools, child parks, football fields for the new residents. If done right, a highrise can minimise the effect sun blocking and wind, but in Ottawa they are done as to occupy the full land they are on. The blocky design doesn't help for the wind either.

As for being human scaled, if people are scared of a 12 storey-high building, they need help from a psychiatrist.
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Old Posted: Jun 2, 2008, 1:40 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by d_jeffrey View Post
Community plans are just another form of NIMBYism. There's a time where neighborhood's need to grow up. Clive Doucet seems to favor an european flair with his 6 storey high buildings, but it's too low to allow for a concrete shell and be cost effective. So you end up with cheaply made wooden frames. As I remember someone who mentioned in an article that neighborhood's should be frozen for 50 years. I find it ridiculous.

The problem is not with high rises, as many seem to point out. It's the lack of ammenities that come with these high rises. Where are the schools, child parks, football fields for the new residents. If done right, a highrise can minimise the effect sun blocking and wind, but in Ottawa they are done as to occupy the full land they are on. The blocky design doesn't help for the wind either.

As for being human scaled, if people are scared of a 12 storey-high building, they need help from a psychiatrist.
If a 12 storey building is out of place, it is out of place. Just like the library replacement in Ottawa South. This is a perfect example of a money making scheme that both disregards the official plan and the wishes of the community and will spur widespread objections.

I am sure there are many places where high rise buildings are suitable (eg. the old industrial site along the Vanier Parkway), but there are many more places where those 3, 4, 5 and 6 storey buildings would be better. And they don't have to be badly designed. Just look at what was built on Echo Drive facing the Canal, near the end of Main Street. Also what was built opposite to the entrance to Carleton University.

And when it comes to intensification and amenities, you are basically stuck with the schools and parks that are already there. There is no room to suddenly add new parks and schools in existing neighbourhoods for the most part.

Generally speaking, if we are talking about high rises, we are mostly talking about condos these days, and generally the market for condos is not for families with children. In downtown Vancouver, high rises are generally too expensive for the average family.

As far as cost effectiveness, again, this is because we have allowed land prices to be driven up too high, and that has been contributed by the fact that too often developers are allowed to exceed height limits. Perhaps, the official plan needs to be updated to allow high rises in certain sectors, but for the most part, the official plan should stand, and then developers will understand the true value of each piece of property.
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  #14  
Old Posted: Jun 2, 2008, 2:20 PM
clynnog clynnog is offline
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Where are the schools, child parks, football fields for the new residents.
I trust you are referring to soccer fields as I don't see too many kids in Ottawa playing football (CFL or NFL) in their spare time. "Footie" is where it is at these days in Ottawa. Bring on Euro 2008...albeit w/o my favourite team.
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Old Posted: Jun 2, 2008, 2:54 PM
d_jeffrey d_jeffrey is offline
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I trust you are referring to soccer fields as I don't see too many kids in Ottawa playing football (CFL or NFL) in their spare time. "Footie" is where it is at these days in Ottawa. Bring on Euro 2008...albeit w/o my favourite team.
I was refering to soccer, as it's the only true football IMO.

As for building new schools, there is nothing that prevents putting schools in mid-rises or high rises, like many hospitals and universities are now doing. Sure it's not common, but it's starting to get there.

And I disagree when people say a 12 storey building is out of place just because of height, you can effectively incorporate any building height, as long as the design and implementation is there.
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Old Posted: Jun 2, 2008, 3:05 PM
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England not making it was very disappointing. I'll be cheering for the Dutch instead since I have some Dutch ancestry.... as long as my least favourite teams (Portugal and Italy) get knocked out I'll be happy

also, from the OP

3.6.3 (mainstreets)
  1. Redevelopment and infill are encouraged on Traditional and Arterial Mainstreets in order to optimize the use of land through increased building height and density. Any proposal for infill or redevelopment will be evaluated in light of the objectives of this Plan. This Plan supports building heights in the range of four to six storeys on Traditional Mainstreets and up to eight storeys on Arterial Mainstreets. Greater building heights will be considered in any of the following circumstances:
    1. Specific building heights are established in the zoning by-law based on a Community Design Plan or other Council-approved study;
    2. The proposed building height conforms with prevailing building heights or provides a transition between existing buildings;
    3. The development fosters the creation of a community focus where the proposal is on a corner lot, or at a gateway location or at a location where there are opportunities to support transit at a transit stop or station;
    4. The development incorporates facilities, services or matters as set out in Section 5.2.1 with respect to the authorization of increases in height and density that, in the opinion of the City, significantly advance the vision for Mainstreets;
    5. Where the application of the provisions of Section 2.5.1 and Section 4.11 determine that additional height is appropriate.
(part of 4.11)

Pattern of the Surrounding Community: Where the height, building mass, proportion, street setback and distance between buildings for the proposed development varies from the pattern for the area, the proposed design may compensate for this variation through its treatment of other characteristics common to the surrounding community;
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Old Posted: Jun 2, 2008, 3:32 PM
clynnog clynnog is offline
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England not making it was very disappointing. I'll be cheering for the Dutch instead since I have some Dutch ancestry.... as long as my least favourite teams (Portugal and Italy) get knocked out I'll be happy
Yes, I guess England are the big team casaulty in all of this...but frankly they were awful in the qualifiers when they needed to win. The Premier League is awash with money with players coming from all over the world, and english players sitting on the bench on many teams.

My 2nd choice will be either NL or ES....if either of them win, the celebrations in Ottawa will be muted at best...if IT win then look out corsa Italia.

This is veering OT, but still interesting.
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Old Posted: Jun 2, 2008, 5:30 PM
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I'll be cheering for NL.
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Old Posted: Jun 11, 2008, 6:50 PM
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Intensification

12 storeys? Try three.

Quote:

Dispute highlights challenge of infilling
Rothwell Heights residents battle 10-house proposal

Patrick Dare, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Wednesday, June 11, 2008

Everyone from the Ontario government to academics and environmentalists is telling city planners and councils that municipalities must build more housing and businesses on less land. The City of Ottawa has made intensification central in its planning guides.

But yesterday, a modest proposal to build 10 high-end semidetached houses at 741 Blair Rd. drew opposition from neighbours in Rothwell Heights, who said such a dense development would mar the neighbourhood of large single-family homes on very big lots. The fact that the developer, Routeburn Urban Developments, has a track record of doing tasteful, interesting infill developments in Ottawa didn't sway them.

The group said they didn't want 10 more houses in their neighbourhood and didn't want new neighbours in three-storey homes looking into their backyards. One neighbour said such a dense development would be like "a bomb" going off in the community.

Some members of the planning committee said if Ottawa can't handle such a modest attempt at intensification, the city is in deep trouble. Somerset Councillor Diane Holmes said the increase doesn't come close to the highrise development being approved for her downtown ward. She said if such a "minor piece of intensification" can't make it through City Hall, "we're going to blow ourselves off this planet."

Barrhaven Councillor Jan Harder said suburban communities such as Barrhaven and Kanata must accept buildings of some height to generate the population to support public services such as transit.

The city's planning staff urged the planning committee to approve the zoning change to allow the 10-unit development, but Beacon Hill-Cyrville Councillor Michel Bellemare led the charge to stop it.

He initially proposed rejecting the development in favour of approving a few single-family homes. When that motion was defeated, he introduced another motion, at the behest of the Rothwell Heights Property Owners Association, proposing that six houses be allowed. That motion was also defeated.

In the end, a motion from Kanata South Councillor Peggy Feltmate carried, allowing eight houses to be built.

The issue is to go to full council on June 25.

Lloyd Phillips, the development consultant working on the project for the builder, said the company's owner will consider what to do next, particularly the economics of building such a small development.

Mr. Phillips said the case shows the challenge for such infill projects and how old attitudes are hard to shake.

"Things have changed. It's not the 1970s anymore," said Mr. Phillips.

Alta Vista Councillor Peter Hume, who chairs the planning committee, said people are fighting hard for the status quo in their neighbourhoods. He said the city needs to require that developers offer such things as greenspace and pools to benefit a neighbourhood when more intensive land development is allowed.

"There is a tremendous amount of opposition to any kind of change," Mr. Hume said.


© The Ottawa Citizen 2008
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  #20  
Old Posted: Jun 12, 2008, 2:48 AM
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Six homes vs ten vs eight!? Seems like a horizontal version of the debates that plague highrise proposals downtown. Had Ms. Holmes been laying down, she would immediately have grasped how excessive the developer's original proposal was!
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