Chebucto/Mumford road widening

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That intersection has always been a problem and this will help solve it. There are a couple of houses there that even now are ridiculously close to the curb, and in fact I seem to recall a car smashing into one not too many years ago, so anyone who argues that the intersection does not need improvement is in denial.

I'm not 100% sure I get what you're saying there; even the largest and most well designed intersection can still be an accident waiting to happen if somebody decides to be an idiot behind the wheel...

[Haliguy]

When it is all said and done people are going to wonder what all the fuss was about. Seroisly, this is so blown out of proportion.

[someone123]

Well, I'm about ready to give up arguing over this. It's happening. It's a compromise, the impact is very small, and it's a needed piece of infrastructure that benefits everybody (perhaps in a small way, but it's also an inexpensive project).

Those who think that we should have no new road projects ever are clinging to a narrow and unrealistic view just like some of the heritage people who make fools of themselves on a regular basis. Demanding that the city use only transit for its transportation needs is pretty similar to demanding that it remain entirely 19th century buildings and parking lots - neither view is reasonable and in the end trying to forcefully impose either on the city would do harm as a result.

[Takeo]

So Keith, the reversing lane will go all the way to the roundabout? I couldn't really tell from the PDF. It looks like it's the original road aside from a short section right at the intersection. So that tiny stretch (4-5 houses) is the only section being widened? And there's still be enough room from there to the roundabout (including under the rail bridge) for a reversing middle lane? If that's the case... I have to say... it's a shame a few folks are losing some of their yards and trees... but it hardly seems like that big a deal. Definitely blown way out of proportion.

I agree with Someone123 as well. The problem by and large seems to be one of dogma. People (the protestors in this case) opposing things based purely on principle without worrying too much about the facts. The Heritage Trust is the perfect example. The problem is, reality is not nearly as sexy as ideology. That PDF drawing wouldn't inspire me to march on Chebucto... but talk about the downfall or democracy and so on might. LOL.

That said... the 5:30 am "sneak attack" was pretty greasy. It's a free country. People have a right to peaceful demonstration. As far as I know, they weren't putting anyone at risk... there was no violence (and if there was, then arrests are, of course, justified). They were probably just beating on drums and holding signs and handing out pamphlets and the usual stuff. Hardly a threat to anyone. I don't know, I wasn't there. I do know one of the people who was arrested however. I've known this person for many years and there is absolutely no way this person would ever do anything violent or dangerous of any kind to anyone ever... not to themselves or anyone else. Not a chance. Our cops do have a reputation of getting a little over-zealous at times.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Takeo

I do know one of the people who was arrested however. I've known this person for many years and there is absolutely no way this person would ever do anything violent or dangerous of any kind to anyone ever... not to themselves or anyone else. Not a chance. Our cops do have a reputation of getting a little over-zealous at times.

You don't have to be violent or dangerous to get arrested. Those people sitting in the trees weren't being violent or dangerous, but they were disobeying an order from police and obstructing work.

Originally Posted by someone123

Well, I'm about ready to give up arguing over this. It's happening.

I believe this is the first thing I actually agree with you about in this thread. I'm pretty much finished with this as well.
But before that, I have one final comment:

Demanding that the city use only transit for its transportation needs...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe a single person on this message board has demanded what you're claiming we are.

[Takeo]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

You don't have to be violent or dangerous to get arrested. Those people sitting in the trees weren't being violent or dangerous, but they were disobeying an order from police and obstructing work.

I agree... but my friend was just handing out pamphlets.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Takeo

So Keith, the reversing lane will go all the way to the roundabout? I couldn't really tell from the PDF. It looks like it's the original road aside from a short section right at the intersection. So that tiny stretch (4-5 houses) is the only section being widened? And there's still be enough room from there to the roundabout (including under the rail bridge) for a reversing middle lane? If that's the case... I have to say... it's a shame a few folks are losing some of their yards and trees... but it hardly seems like that big a deal. Definitely blown way out of proportion.

I should have also posted this link which shows the stretch down to the roundabout:

http://halifax.ca/designcon/cons/doc...20080501_1.PDF

Yes, it goes all the way to the roundabout without actually widening the street. And yes, it has been blown ridiculously out of proportion.

[Dmajackson]

LOL...my comparision of Chebucto to Hammonds Plains Road was also thought of by the Chronicle Herald:

Widening street no problem in Bedford.

[spaustin]

Originally Posted by Takeo

I agree with Someone123 as well. The problem by and large seems to be one of dogma. People (the protestors in this case) opposing things based purely on principle without worrying too much about the facts. The Heritage Trust is the perfect example. The problem is, reality is not nearly as sexy as ideology. That PDF drawing wouldn't inspire me to march on Chebucto... but talk about the downfall or democracy and so on might. LOL.

I wasn't aware that there was just one way to look at the facts here and that if your assessment doesn't add up to support the project you must be a reactionary idealogue.

[Takeo]

Originally Posted by spaustin

I wasn't aware that there was just one way to look at the facts here and that if your assessment doesn't add up to support the project you must be a reactionary idealogue.

I was speaking more in general terms. It is true that ideas grab people more than facts.

Also, my own experience with this whole issue has been one of not really having too much of an opinion either way... but agreeing in principle with the idea that widening roads is generally a bad idea... promoting car use, sprawl, etc. We all know the arguments. So if I HAD to choose, I probably would have leaned towards the "against" camp. Then I saw the drawings and my thought was... what? That's it? So in my case at least... if I had chosen a side, I would have been a "reactionary idealogue".

Either way, you have to admit, the issue and the debate about it (especially on the Herald site) has been highly emotional and not very objective. It's been mostly name calling on both sides (again, mostly on the Herald site).

[Dmajackson]

It's official the third lane is to be introduced on Wednesday night:

Implementation of Reversing Lane on Chebucto Road between Roundabout and Mumford Road

(Friday, November 14, 2008) - The Chebucto Road Reversing Lane Project is near completion. The overhead lane designation signage scheduled to be activated on Monday, November 17th and to be fully operational at midnight Wednesday evening November 19th .

During the transition period from signage activation on Monday, November 17th until full operation midnight Wednesday, November 19th there will be two lanes designated outbound and one lane inbound. At midnight Wednesday November 19th the system will become fully operational, alternating the centre reversing lane at noon and midnight.

This new reversible lane operation on Chebucto Road will be similar to that on both the Herring Cove Road and Macdonald Bridge to which many drivers are already accustomed to using. The middle lane will operate in the east bound (inbound) direction to move traffic onto the peninsula between midnight and noon and in the west bound (outbound) direction to move traffic off of the peninsula between noon and midnight.

Motorists are advised to watch for and obey the painted lane markings and especially the new overhead lane control signals which will indicate the direction of travel permitted in the reversible lane depending upon the time of day.

HRM wishes to express its thanks and appreciation to motorist for their cooperation over the length of this project.

[Keith P.]

I am surprisingly impressed with the changes made to Chebucto. The huge fuss made over this seems ridiculous now that one can see the changes that were made -- they seem remarkably unobtrusive, but traffic moves much better.

[Dmajackson]

IMO if a road is going to be upgraded mainly to help out rush hour traffic then this should be the way to do it. Take an existing lane and make it flow with the traffic. We could do with a couple more of these around town. I've always thought that Dartmouth Rd in Bedford would be a great fit for a project like this. Its three lanes from end to end and is congested all the time.

[Haliguy]

It looks great! makes you wonder what all the fuss was about. Hopefully people we realize this so next time a road widening project comes up like this on the pennisula people won't be so against it.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

It looks great! makes you wonder what all the fuss was about. Hopefully people we realize this so next time a road widening project comes up like this on the pennisula people won't be so against it.

The fuss was largely orchestrated as media buzz by the Ecology Action Center and a few of their loony followers who lived in the area -- and a bunch who didn't. Of course, the willing media were glad to beat the drum for their cause. The problem here is that the activists didn't know when to stop and let the hype get totally out of control, which in turn fanned the media hype even more. It was all very ridiculous.

[phrenic]

You really have no idea what the EAC is about and should stop slandering them and their suppoters. They are very far from being radical or loony when it comes to most issues an do a lot of good or this city and this province that you don't even realize. A lot of people seem to think they are little more than a bunch of tree huggers who spend all their time in the streets waving placards. If you really think they are a bunch of radicals you should go to their open house on December 3th from 4-7p.m. and learn a bit. 2705 Fern Lane.

The Chebucto Road widening dispute always was and still is about much, much more than just the city replacing a few hundred feet of lawns and trees with pavement. For better or for worse, it ended up a being the focal point for a lot of people's frustrations with the city.

If the city continues in the future to pursue upgrades to transportation infrastructure that serve to only make it easier to get around in a car, and forsake sustainable transportation entirely, you will continue to see people speak up and cause a ruckus.

[Takeo]

Yes. No need for the name calling. I have a number of close friends who were either involved with the protests or work at the EAC and I don't appreciate having them maligned. They are anything but "looney". I agree that the project was really minor and things got blown WAY out of proportion... you look at it now and think "that's what all the fuss was about?"... but the protestors had good points in principle. But name calling is always easier than listening. The Herald threads in particular were nothing more than shouting matches.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by phrenic

You really have no idea what the EAC is about and should stop slandering them and their suppoters. They are very far from being radical or loony when it comes to most issues an do a lot of good or this city and this province that you don't even realize. A lot of people seem to think they are little more than a bunch of tree huggers who spend all their time in the streets waving placards. If you really think they are a bunch of radicals you should go to their open house on December 3th from 4-7p.m. and learn a bit. 2705 Fern Lane.

The Chebucto Road widening dispute always was and still is about much, much more than just the city replacing a few hundred feet of lawns and trees with pavement. For better or for worse, it ended up a being the focal point for a lot of people's frustrations with the city.

If the city continues in the future to pursue upgrades to transportation infrastructure that serve to only make it easier to get around in a car, and forsake sustainable transportation entirely, you will continue to see people speak up and cause a ruckus.

Give me a break! So the city can't do any transportation improvements at all without this reaction...with all do repsect that is just dumb. Yes we need to put more into transit, but the fact is we will still have a growing number of cars as the city grows and people aren't going to stop user the cars over night or improve the transit sytem over night.

What happened on Chebucto road was just rediclous and they were a bunch of radicals not all but a lot of them were. Hopefully people next time will know how pathetic they are.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Give me a break! So the city can't do any transportation improvements at all without this reaction...with all do repsect that is just dumb.

If the improvements somehow contain some sort of enhancement to public or sustainable transit, and help to encourage more people to leave their cars in their driveways, then it's all good. phrenic did NOT say that no transportation improvements should be made in the city, you took their words way out of context.

Was Chebucto minor? Depends. If you live on the street and were one of the folks whose front lawns were partially taken, then it probably wasn't a minor issue. If you were truly saddened by the cutting down of those trees, it probably wasn't a minor issue. If you were like me and are fed up with the city's apparent lack of interest in improving public transit and trying to get people out of their cars, it wasn't a minor issue.
If however you are a car driver who takes Chebucto Road every day, it probably is a minor issue. Minor because the time savings in getting from your driveway to downtown are going to be equally minor. This "improvement" hasn't actually improved anything, unless you think getting to work 5 minutes earlier is a huge improvement.

What happened on Chebucto road was just rediclous and they were a bunch of radicals not all but a lot of them were. Hopefully people next time will know how pathetic they are.

Thank you for at least conceding that not everybody who opposed this was a loony tree hugging radical. Some people opposed Chebucto for the wrong reasons, the ones who love to get their faces on camera while acting out against society. These are the same guys we see at every HCAP rally and protest throwing light bulbs at police and what not. But a lot of people were against it for the right reasons, and those of us who were do not like to be lumped in with those who weren't.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Give me a break! So the city can't do any transportation improvements at all without this reaction...with all do repsect that is just dumb. Yes we need to put more into transit, but the fact is we will still have a growing number of cars as the city grows and people aren't going to stop user the cars over night or improve the transit sytem over night.

What happened on Chebucto road was just rediclous and they were a bunch of radicals not all but a lot of them were. Hopefully people next time will know how pathetic they are.

Here here.

The city needs to spend more on public transit, mabye even rail. But to think people are going to stop using their cars is just plain stupid. If they don't spend anything on transportation improvements all we will do is decrease the amount of people coming to the core and COULD even increase urban sprawl.