Airport expansion across Canada - Page 15

taal · #**281** Posted: **Jan 14, 2012, 9:04 PM**

I think there's more too it though ... it is as if for some odd reason or another, Pearson didn't want to open up the door to retail ?

I'm curious if anyone knows the story ?

There is no chain retail whatsoever less a couple outlets; Otherwise it's that giant duty free shop.

Some seems odd about it.

isaidso · #**282** Posted: **Jan 14, 2012, 10:15 PM**

Canadian airports tend to have less 'attractions' in them then elsewhere, but there's something very strange about Pearson. It looks almost like they haven't finished building it yet, but it's been done for years.

Andrewjm3D · #**283** Posted: **Jan 14, 2012, 11:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsim249

^ I can't tell if you're being serious...

I am.

Anybody who was in Toronto and was able to visit the Chin Lee Crystal the first few weeks it opened may agree with me that Pearson feels like Libskinds addition did without any art in it. Interesting lines but it's lacking stuff to look at and do.

There is no denying though that it is a powerful and modern structure with great attention to detail.

Taken by - seanmcgrath on flickr.com

ACT7 · #**284** Posted: **Jan 15, 2012, 5:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by taal

I think there's more too it though ... it is as if for some odd reason or another, Pearson didn't want to open up the door to retail ?

I'm curious if anyone knows the story ?

There is no chain retail whatsoever less a couple outlets; Otherwise it's that giant duty free shop.

Some seems odd about it.

Couldn't agree more! For an airport the size of Pearson with the amount of international traffic, it has an appauling lack of retail. Airports a fraction of the size have way more in terms of food and shopping. Someone REALLY f*%#ed up when handling the retail contracts. Even YVR has a Hermes, Lacoste, and Brooks Brothers with have the traffic and half the international pax traffic - and stagnant growth. Brutal! Hopefully this rebranding that they're doing will lead to some major retail improvements but passing through T1 Hammerhead at Christmas showed no changes from the year before. I've tried asking them what's in the plans but they are very hush-hush about it. Do they not look at other airports around the world!?

ACT7 · #**285** Posted: **Jan 15, 2012, 5:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Cranes signal big growth at Calgary airport

http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...310/story.html

Too bad the growth isn't there...22 gates is overkill imo.

isaidso · #**286** Posted: **Jan 15, 2012, 6:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACT7

Couldn't agree more! For an airport the size of Pearson with the amount of international traffic, it has an appauling lack of retail. Airports a fraction of the size have way more in terms of food and shopping. Someone REALLY f*%#ed up when handling the retail contracts. Even YVR has a Hermes, Lacoste, and Brooks Brothers with have the traffic and half the international pax traffic - and stagnant growth. Brutal! Hopefully this rebranding that they're doing will lead to some major retail improvements but passing through T1 Hammerhead at Christmas showed no changes from the year before. I've tried asking them what's in the plans but they are very hush-hush about it. Do they not look at other airports around the world!?

A lot has to do with the extreme pragmatic culture that exists in Toronto. More than one Torontonian has asked me why an airport needs retail and things to do. For them it's a place to get from A to B and nothing else. Beauty, entertainment, attractions, art, etc are unnecessary frills.

Many things in Toronto are bare bones to the point where they don't even look finished. Toronto Life Square is another example. They didn't even bother to put ceilings in there. Why would a building need a ceiling?

taal · #**287** Posted: **Jan 15, 2012, 6:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

A lot has to do with the extreme pragmatic culture that exists in Toronto. More than one Torontonian has asked me why an airport needs retail and things to do. For them it's a place to get from A to B and nothing else. Beauty, entertainment, attractions, art, etc are unnecessary frills.

Many things in Toronto are bare bones to the point where they don't even look finished. Toronto Life Square is another example. They didn't even bother to put ceilings in there. Why would a building need a ceiling?

Sorry isaidso, but that's just about one of the silliest thing I've ever heard ...

I live in Toronto, and everyone I know shares a similar sentiment with me regarding YYZ.

Its so silly, that I feel silly spouting a counter example but here goes: The is a ton of new retail planed for the Union expansion (a small mall) ...

ACT7 · #**288** Posted: **Jan 15, 2012, 6:36 PM**

Airport retail drives so much revenue it makes absolutely no sense to me the way Pearson is run sometimes. Pearson should have a friggin' mall in it like other airports its size and status.

Andrewjm3D · #**289** Posted: **Jan 15, 2012, 6:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

A lot has to do with the extreme pragmatic culture that exists in Toronto. More than one Torontonian has asked me why an airport needs retail and things to do. For them it's a place to get from A to B and nothing else. Beauty, entertainment, attractions, art, etc are unnecessary frills.

Many things in Toronto are bare bones to the point where they don't even look finished. Toronto Life Square is another example. They didn't even bother to put ceilings in there. Why would a building need a ceiling?

Well most of that has to do with the fact that we as Torontonians know we have to scream and beg for any reinvestment from the feds to get anything done around here. We either pay for it ourselves like the TTC or take what we can get from the federal level. The rest of Canada hates to see any tax money being spent in Toronto even though the GTA represents over 1/5th of all the tax generated in this country.

If we started demanding more money and better quality the rest of the country would scream bloody murder. It's been that way for the past 30 years and will continue that way until mentalities in this country change. The fact is the rest of the country loves to hate us but loves our money, and any federal government that is seen as Toronto friendly might as well not run in the next election.

With that said, I think we've seen the construction of a very impressive structure with seamless additions making it the most modern airport in the country. It really wouldn't take much to turn it into a more friendly airport to spend a few hours waiting in.

chrisallard5454 · #**290** Posted: **Jan 15, 2012, 7:02 PM**

ACT7 · #**291** Posted: **Jan 15, 2012, 9:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrewjm3D

Well most of that has to do with the fact that we as Torontonians know we have to scream and beg for any reinvestment from the feds to get anything done around here. We either pay for it ourselves like the TTC or take what we can get from the federal level. The rest of Canada hates to see any tax money being spent in Toronto even though the GTA represents over 1/5th of all the tax generated in this country.

If we started demanding more money and better quality the rest of the country would scream bloody murder. It's been that way for the past 30 years and will continue that way until mentalities in this country change. The fact is the rest of the country loves to hate us but loves our money, and any federal government that is seen as Toronto friendly might as well not run in the next election.

With that said, I think we've seen the construction of a very impressive structure with seamless additions making it the most modern airport in the country. It really wouldn't take much to turn it into a more friendly airport to spend a few hours waiting in.

Totally agree...whereas Americans embrace NYC, the rest of Canada seems to have an unhealthy hatred towards Toronto. So the federal government does play a huge role in how uncompetitive our airports are run, but that being said, the GTAA also needs to take responsibility for how lackluster the retail offering is. It is completely not reflective of what the city itself offers in terms of food or shopping. That Toronto Marketplace HAS to go! Artizan HAS to go! Most of the crappy food, like Red Rocket, HAS to go! Don't even get me started on the transborder pier. I read in a Moodie report that Pearson has the largest designated retail space of any airport in NA. It's most definitely not being used to anywhere near it's full potential.

This article is from 2007. Moodie seems to be seeing something in the retail offering that I am missing...

http://www.moodiereport.com/pdf/tmr_apr07_13.pdf

taal · #**292** Posted: **Jan 16, 2012, 12:43 AM**

Quote:

I read in a Moodie report that Pearson has the largest designated retail space of any airport in NA.

Huh ? That makes no sense whatsoever ! I just came back from Newark, O'hare, washtinon ... each one of them must have had at least 10X are much retail, and I'm not exaggerating.

Now I'm only referring to terminal 1 here.

As funny as it is I find terminal 3, while dismal, has more retail !

Andrewjm3D · #**293** Posted: **Jan 16, 2012, 2:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by taal

Huh ? That makes no sense whatsoever ! I just came back from Newark, O'hare, washtinon ... each one of them must have had at least 10X are much retail, and I'm not exaggerating.

Now I'm only referring to terminal 1 here.

As funny as it is I find terminal 3, while dismal, has more retail !

He said space, as in designated sqaure footage for retail. It's just not being used for that yet.

jmt18325 · #**294** Posted: **Jan 16, 2012, 2:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACT7

Totally agree...whereas Americans embrace NYC, the rest of Canada seems to have an unhealthy hatred towards Toronto.

I don't think that you have enough exposure to American conservative media if you think that almost all Americans embrace NY.

SpongeG · #**295** Posted: **Jan 16, 2012, 2:32 AM**

plans/info for YVR upgrades and expansion etc.

http://www.bccr.net/images/nov2011/P...ion-Nov_24.pdf

ACT7 · #**296** Posted: **Jan 16, 2012, 3:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by taal

Huh ? That makes no sense whatsoever ! I just came back from Newark, O'hare, washtinon ... each one of them must have had at least 10X are much retail, and I'm not exaggerating.

Now I'm only referring to terminal 1 here.

As funny as it is I find terminal 3, while dismal, has more retail !

I know, it seems ridiculous. Yes, it was that the space is designated as retail, but it's definitely not being used that way. Either way, it's terrible. And yes, sad as it is, T3 is better than T1 for retail...landside anyway, with their crappy mini-mall.

Here is the link to that report...

http://www.taxfreetravel.com/Toronto%20Pearson

Sorry, it wasn't a Moodie report.

ACT7 · #**297** Posted: **Jan 16, 2012, 3:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325

I don't think that you have enough exposure to American conservative media if you think that almost all Americans embrace NY.

In general, I would say that is true, just anecdotally and pure obsevation having travelled around the U.S. But, true, American conservative media may not think that way...nor should they be the measuring stick of how Americans think.

ACT7 · #**298** Posted: **Jan 17, 2012, 9:59 PM**

Posted in the YYC airport discussion too...

November results are in for YYC, and although overall pax numbers for the month are down, international is way up compared to last November. Still down for the year but it makes me wonder what went on this Nov. to have such a jump. It's not like there was a significant increase in flights or capacity. Almost makes me wonder if it's a typo that will be adjusted.

http://www.yyc.com/data//1/rec_docs/33_BR_PaxTotal.pdf

CanadianCentaur · #**299** Posted: **Jan 17, 2012, 11:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACT7

Too bad the growth isn't there...22 gates is overkill imo.

If major growth in air traffic returns like it did before 2008, you'll be glad they built that many gates in YYC beforehand! Major world economic crises don't last forever, you know.

ACT7 · #**300** Posted: **Jan 18, 2012, 2:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadianCentaur

If major growth in air traffic returns like it did before 2008, you'll be glad they built that many gates in YYC beforehand! Major world economic crises don't last forever, you know.

Well considering Pier F at T1 at Pearson has 23 gates and YYZ handles almost 10 times the international traffic that YYC does, imo it's overkill...even though, yes, world crises don't last forever. I'm not saying that an expansion is necessarily a bad idea but this was obviously in the works when growth was double digit. That may happen again in a decade but only for a couple of years again.