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  #1  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2013, 8:16 PM
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San Antonio │ Joske's Tower │ 31 FLOORS │ 410 FEET │ Proposed

GLASS!

It seems the hotel is 24-stories on top of the four story Joske's building. So true height is 28 stories.

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  #2  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2013, 8:42 PM
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That is ... a bulky building. I don't know how I feel about a huge hotel like that directly on Alamo Plaza. I kind of like the low slung heights right there because they don't overpower the Alamo; and this will make it look way smaller.

Although, admittedly, if it were an apartment building I would probably like it more.
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  #3  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2013, 8:55 PM
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H.
D.
R.
C.

Better not screw this up. Can't wait for it. Cut it by 20 stories. Make the glass brown.
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  #4  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2013, 9:04 PM
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If you can't tell, there's an open air area at the near top.
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  #5  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2013, 9:08 PM
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I actually hope they change the design. It's kind of ugly if you ask me. But! I do hope it is built in some form.
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  #6  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2013, 9:53 PM
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I think it looks good, time to build up, not out. I'm sure it can be tweaked but it better not turn brown and nothing shorter than 24 stories.
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2013, 10:56 PM
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I just wish the defenders of this development in the comments section of the EN article would get their facts straight. Being just to the southwest of the Alamo, it definitely will cast a shadow on the Alamo, especially during winter, when the sun is in the south.

As for Ashkenazy's seriousness, I have serious doubts. I worked in the Joske's building for 2 years and was privy to all sorts of pie-in-the-sky development plans that didn't pan out. This rendering looks like little more than a placeholder. It doesn't seem designed so much as it apes the Grand Hyatt but with a right-angle turn in the middle.

And the timeshares being referred to by another commenter are probably La Cascada, which is another Wyndham development. They're not off 37-- nonetheless it's obvious that's what they were thinking of.
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  #8  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2013, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boquillas View Post
I just wish the defenders of this development in the comments section of the EN article would get their facts straight. Being just to the southwest of the Alamo, it definitely will cast a shadow on the Alamo, especially during winter, when the sun is in the south.
Inside the agenda item was two graphics that show how the winter and summer solstice will affect shadowing. It never casts a shadow during the summer solstice and barely creates a shadow over alamo plaza for one hour of the late afternoon during winter solstice. The agenda seems to have been taken down, but I read it all.

Quote:
As for Ashkenazy's seriousness, I have serious doubts. I worked in the Joske's building for 2 years and was privy to all sorts of pie-in-the-sky development plans that didn't pan out. This rendering looks like little more than a placeholder. It doesn't seem designed so much as it apes the Grand Hyatt but with a right-angle turn in the middle.
It's at the stage of seeking approval from the hdrc, that's past being pie in the sky.

Quote:
And the timeshares being referred to by another commenter are probably La Cascada, which is another Wyndham development. They're not off 37-- nonetheless it's obvious that's what they were thinking of.
But La Cascada does well. No clue how 37 came into the picture unless, and more than likely, that person was referring to another development.
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2013, 11:18 PM
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^Changed the title. What thread were you talking about deleting?

As for the height, at 28 floors I would expect it to be around 300 feet or so.

I've been working on a building height list for San Antonio. I've been using Google Earth which has a GIS feature that let's you measure building heights.

Anyway, the heights I've found so far in that area are easily compatible with how tall this building would be.

Marriott Rivercenter Hotel - 452 feet to the spires - 379 feet to the mechanical penthouse - 354 feet to the main roof.
Grand Hyatt - 424 feet to the mechanical penthouse - 389 feet to the main roof.
Marriott Riverwalk Hotel - 271 feet to the mechanical penthouse - 252 feet to the main roof.
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2013, 11:36 PM
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Does anyone know when the aerial images were taken for Google maps? The street level images are from April of 2011, but I'm not sure about the aerial ones.

While there will be a shadow cast in the general direction of the Alamo, I don't think it'll be long enough to actually be over the Alamo grounds. At least the current Google aerial maps don[t seem to suggest it.
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2013, 11:43 PM
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Anyone willing to posit a guess on how many hotel rooms this may have? It looks it'd have to have a few hundred or so. What are hotel occupancy rates like for the downtown area? I thought I saw a number in the ~60% range a while back, although I could be wrong. Does downtown really need that kind of capacity hitting the market since there have been a few hotels file for bankruptcy somewhat recently?
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  #12  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2013, 11:47 PM
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This is a nice looking building. I hope it gets built.
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2013, 11:51 PM
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Here are the other two renderings that came with that article. Does anyone know who the architect is?


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  #14  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2013, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas View Post
Here are the other two renderings that came with that article. Does anyone know who the architect is?
The bottom of that sketch says SA Partnership Architects.

http://sapartnership.com/
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  #15  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2013, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Formus View Post
The bottom of that sketch says SA Partnership Architects.

http://sapartnership.com/
Thanks. I hadn't noticed, but they "moved" the tower. From east of St. Joseph Church to west of it. Having it be east of it would have meant any shadow would have further away from the Alamo.
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Old Posted Mar 30, 2013, 12:20 AM
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I'll take it, but why isn't it on the agenda anymore?
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  #17  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2013, 1:45 AM
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What are the odds this is a "see what we can get approved so as to raise the value of the land to a prospective development/buyer/tenant" move?

The renderings look...well...a bit hasty.

Hope sirkingwilliam is right and this is more legit than it looks here...
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  #18  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2013, 2:14 AM
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Anyone know if the agenda item mentioned anything about parking? I would imagine the mall doesn't have enough capacity to add a hotel this size.
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  #19  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2013, 4:27 AM
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I guess I'll start at the top... but I just knew the next 20+ would be a hotel. Its a pretty safe bet considering the DT "area" has 14k+ rooms.

It is pretty bulky. I don't know if it is the actual width of each side or just the angles of those "human eye" view renderings; the aerial shots make it look a little less bulky although I was always expecting something to sit on top of the parking garage and that would've made it even chunkier. However, how it feels at street level gives its true impact. If you want to know what it will look like from Alamo Plaza, compare it to looking at the Nix from Crockett St. or Houston St.

The first thing I thought of when I saw this was Drury Plaza. It's a similar "L" shape and if will sit around 300 feet, it will be right in between the Drury Plaza and Nix. I think I would like it a bit more if it had a twin sitting over the garage and if one of them was offices or residential, but thats just wishful thinking at this point.

The scale might be a tad bit off; if you scaled it back to 90% of its actual size, it might help it a bit, but it might actually be at that tipping point where it still feels okay. I know that the big boys are over a bit, but those things are monsters and that is NOT what this or any other building should strive to be. The fact that it is in a high rise desert of sorts is what makes this one a hard one; the Palacio is over a bit and has been kind of by itself for awhile. This might not have that big of an impact once its there and if you look at this angle, it doesn't seem too much out of place.

I'll guess that it may have 375 rooms. Considering that between the Marriott RiverCenter, Marriott Riverwalk, Grand Hyatt and Palacio, you have 3,000 rooms, adding a few hundred more would only seem to knock a few from the bottom out of commission. The proximity to the Convention Center helps alot, and the fact that it is getting expanded is another plus. Last summer had the highest occupancy rates in DT (75%) since '07, even though we've added at least 2,000 rooms since then to DT (Grand Hyatt, Embassy, Courtyard, Towneplace, Home2Suites, Indigo, Springhill, Fairfield, etc.).
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...#photo-3707142

I would rather have residential any day over this, but the fact that it is countered by "The River House" makes me feel a bit better on the residential front. Also, not sure if anybody else noticed the other new construction request at 302 Josephine; every little bit helps.

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Originally Posted by WorldTexas View Post
Anyone know if the agenda item mentioned anything about parking? I would imagine the mall doesn't have enough capacity to add a hotel this size.
I'm sure it would be valet. The back side garage usually has the top 2 levels sit empty. But this would also lead me to believe that they are going all in with the "mall for tourist only" plan and either raise prices in the garage, keeping locals from parking there and freeing up space, and hoping that the mall clientele would leave their cars in their respective hotel parking areas (any DT garage) and walk on over, which I think most "visitors" staying in DT do anyways.

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Originally Posted by Alice93 View Post
I'll take it, but why isn't it on the agenda anymore?
It was pulled. Remember when "Fish Market Hotel" was pulled? That was eventually approved although that was a placeholder.

Quote:
The commission was scheduled to consider the project next Wednesday. However, BC Realty requested the item be pulled to allow for more time to meet design changes recommended by the HDRC's design review committee.
Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...#ixzz2OzmB84z1
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Last edited by miaht82; Mar 30, 2013 at 4:49 AM.
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  #20  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2013, 5:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas View Post
Does anyone know when the aerial images were taken for Google maps? The street level images are from April of 2011, but I'm not sure about the aerial ones.
Hard to tell. It depends where you look. I would say 2010 or so. On the 45' aerial view, CIA at Pearl is not built and water is not flowing in River North, suggesting 2008 or so, but Cevallos Lofts has sitework done suggesting Fall 2010. IDK
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