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Old Posted Feb 20, 2012, 4:07 AM
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Talking Long Island Railroad - Metro North - New Jersey Transit | News & Photos

I took these these proposals from NJT , MNRR , RPA and some are mine which I marked "My Idea". If there are no markings , then you can read about it on wiki.. The list below took me 3hrs to slowly put together and i'm sure I messed something up... I will post the station list later....

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=...56246,9.876709

Current Network

Hudson line
Harlem line
New Haven line
New Canaan Branch
Waterbury Branch

Northeast Corridor
North Jersey Coast line
Morristown line
Montclair - Boonton line
Gladstone Branch
Danbury Branch
Port Jervis line
Main line
Bergen County line
Raritan Valley line
Pascack Valley line
Atlantic City line
RiverLINE

Under Construction / Under Study

Lackawanna Rail line
Hell Gate line
West Side line
Gateway Project to Penn Station & GCT

Proposed Network

West Shore line
Red Bank - Forked River line
Monmouth JCT line
Matawan line
South Amboy Branch (my idea)

Kingsland Branch (RPA)
Cross Chester line (my idea)
Lehigh Valley Rail Extensions
Danbury Branch Extension to New Milford
Old Piermont Branch (RPA)
Northwest Rail link (RPA)
Old Boonton Branch (RPA)
Beacon / Maybrook line
West Trenton line
Pompton Branch (RPA)
Cape May line
West Trenton Branch
Pennsville line (My idea)
Glassboro line
Millville Extension



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Electric Lines Powered @ 25kV/60Hz

North Jersey Coast line (South Amboy to Long Branch
Morristown line
Montclair - Boonton line
Gladstone Branch
Red Bank - Forked River line
Monmouth JCT line
Matawan line
South Amboy Branch (my idea)

Gateway Project to Penn Station & GCT

Electric lines Powered @ 12.5kV/25Hz

Northeast Corridor
North Jersey Coast line (Rahway to South Amboy)

Electric lines Powered @ 12.5 kV/60 Hz

Danbury Branch Extension to New Milford
Danbury Branch
New Haven line
New Canaan Branch
Cross Chester line (my idea)

Electric lines Powered @ 11 kV/25Hz

Hell Gate line

Electric lines Powered @ 750 V DC

Hudson line (Grand Central to Croton Harmon)
Harlem line (Grand Central to Southeast)
New Haven line (Grand Central to Pelham)

Diesel lines

Hudson line (Croton Harmon to Poughkeepsie)
Harlem line (Southeast to Wassaic)
Waterbury Branch
Main line
Bergen County line
West Shore line
West Side line
Raritan Valley line
Lehigh Valley Rail Extensions
Old Piermont Branch (RPA)
Pascack Valley line

Kingsland Branch (RPA)
Northwest Rail link (RPA)
Old Boonton Branch (RPA)
Beacon / Maybrook line
West Trenton line
Montclair - Boonton line (MSU to Denville)
Pompton Branch (RPA)
Atlantic City line
Cape May line
RiverLINE
West Trenton Branch
Pennsville line (My idea)
Glassboro line
Millville Extension


New Jersey Transit/NJDOT/PATH/DPRA/Metro North/CDOT/NYSDOT Rail Numbers

Heavy Rail

Jersey City (PATH) - 263,000 > 470,000 (2030)
Lindenwold (Patco) - 36,600 > 72,000 (2030)

Light Rail

NJ Gold Coast Network (HBLR) - 55,600 > 120,500 (2030)
Newark Network (NLRT) - 21,200 > 260,000 (2030)
South Jersey Network - 11,000 > 75,400 (2030)

Regional Rail

Northeast Corridor - 117,360 > 210,000 (2030)
New Haven Line - 115,948 > 240,000 (2030)
Morris&Essex Network - 58,400 > 85,000 (2030)
Harlem Line - 55,260 > 75,300 (2030)
Hudson Line - 50,509 > 74,100 (2030)
Main/Bergen/Port Jervis lines - 35,700 > 51,000 (2030)
North Jersey Coast line - 26,650 > 54,800 (2030)
Raritan Valley line - 21,800 > 57,200 (2030)
*Meadowlands line - 15,920 (2012)
Montclair-Boonton line - 15,750 > 35,100 (2030)
Pascack Valley line - 9,200 > 19,500 (2030)
*Yankees-163rd Game Day Ridership - 7,238 (2012)
Danbury Branch - 5,890 > 24,400 (2030)
New Canaan Branch - 5,640 > 7,200 (2030)

Shore Line East - 3,250 > 7,180 (2030)
Atlantic City line - 2,995 > 7,400 (2030)
Waterbury Branch - 740 > 4,270 (2030)

*Average Ridership during events

Future Systems , Readjusted to factor in new Job Growth projects and population trends... Most LRT and Some Commuter Rail lines will replace overcrowded bus routes , I did take that ridership and throw it into the numbers along with factoring in Job growth , TOD and general Transit growth.

Gold Coast Light Metro - 350,000
Manhattan Access/Gateway Network - 270,000
I-287 Rail Corridor - 135,000
MOM Network - 120,000
Westchester LRT Network - 110,700
New Brunswick LRT/BRT Network - 85,000
Newark-Paterson LRT- 75,200
Newark-Elizabeth LRT - 70,500

Hartford BRT/LRT Network - 65,800
Knowledge Corridor - 68,500

Northern Branch LRT - 66,000
Hell Gate line - 65,000
New Haven Streetcar Network - 60,000
Newark-Jersey City LRT - 59,100
Route 4 & 17 Bus Rapid Transit - 58,300
US 46 & Route 3 Bus Rapid Transit - 55,900

PATH Airport/Elizabeth Extension - 54,900
US 1 Bus Rapid Transit - 50,300
Garden State Parkway Busway - 48,100

Newark-Harrison-Kearny Streetcar Network - 45,900
Stamford Streetcar Network - 42,600
West Shore line - 40,200
Bridgeport BRT Network - 39,300
Glassboro/Millville LRT - 37,900
Philpsburg Connections - 35,600
US 22 Bus Rapid Transit - 35,400
Various Infill Stations - 35,000
Bergen-Passaic LRT - 30,400
Lackawanna line - 27,100
West Trenton line - 22,500
West Side Line - 20,700

Northwest Link/Pompton Connector - 19,200
Manchester Branch - 15,500
Mount Holly Branch - 14,200

West Trenton LRT - 12,800
Hammonton LRT - 10,400

Bristol Branch - 9,800
Princeton Streetcar - 9,300
Pennsville LRT - 7,200

Beacon/Maybrook Line - 5,500
Middletown Branch - 5,000
Central Corridor - 4,800
Eastern Link - 4,400
Cape May line - 4,200
Bridgeton line - 3,200

Last edited by Nexis4Jersey; Feb 5, 2013 at 10:56 PM.
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  #2  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2012, 7:26 PM
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Having the Danbury line extend to New Milford would be nice . . . even though it's already a 2 hr ride from Danbury to Grand Central.
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Old Posted Feb 20, 2012, 8:24 PM
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Didn't you do this list before? I've seen this already.

Also, this is the US not China.. seems like a dream map. Maybe a few of those will get done.

You missed the PATH to newark airport -- that would be very useful. Newark airport would become more desirable and more prestigious if it had a one-seat-ride to manhattan.
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  #4  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2012, 8:55 PM
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Nexis4Jersey Nexis4Jersey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
Didn't you do this list before? I've seen this already.

Also, this is the US not China.. seems like a dream map. Maybe a few of those will get done.

You missed the PATH to newark airport -- that would be very useful. Newark airport would become more desirable and more prestigious if it had a one-seat-ride to manhattan.
I never done a list like this , ive done a few other things. I wouldn't call this a pipe dream considering that there getting serious with a few lines. A Few years ago the Lackawanna line was dead , and now its under Construction. The Glassboro line has starting waking up recently , and Penn Station Access. They tend to restore most lines in pairs of 2 or 3 , so I could see all of this getting done by 2050. Again that's 40 years away..... The PATH is not NJT , so I did not include. The Lehigh Extensions , MOM Rail Network , Penn Station Access will restore or extend 7 to 8 lines , those projects are cheap , as long as a project is cheap aka below 700 Million it will get built. Then theres CT which is getting very progressive with Rail and the Lower Hudson Valley. TOD and few other things will drive the Suburban Rail. Considering what they've built and upgraded over the past 20 years , its very possible...they've recently been upgrading the systems to handle the extensions. Some lines will get built or restored this decade , although no one knows which ones. The Lackawanna line threw everyone a curve ball , but I would be surprised if the West Trenton & Northwest lines got funded and built , and Pompton Branch.... As for Metro North there currently upgrading the Danbury Branch , and overhauling the New Haven line for Expansions in CT.... This is also the NY region , we tend to get funding more then say the Boston or Charlotte Regions , theres Bi-Partisan support for Rail here , which also makes all these lines possible. The Lackawanna line and Lehigh Valley lines are being pushed by Republicans and Conservatives...

Last edited by Nexis4Jersey; Feb 20, 2012 at 9:30 PM.
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  #5  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2012, 1:59 AM
KVNBKLYN KVNBKLYN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
I never done a list like this , ive done a few other things. I wouldn't call this a pipe dream considering that there getting serious with a few lines. A Few years ago the Lackawanna line was dead , and now its under Construction. The Glassboro line has starting waking up recently , and Penn Station Access. They tend to restore most lines in pairs of 2 or 3 , so I could see all of this getting done by 2050. Again that's 40 years away..... The PATH is not NJT , so I did not include. The Lehigh Extensions , MOM Rail Network , Penn Station Access will restore or extend 7 to 8 lines , those projects are cheap , as long as a project is cheap aka below 700 Million it will get built. Then theres CT which is getting very progressive with Rail and the Lower Hudson Valley. TOD and few other things will drive the Suburban Rail. Considering what they've built and upgraded over the past 20 years , its very possible...they've recently been upgrading the systems to handle the extensions. Some lines will get built or restored this decade , although no one knows which ones. The Lackawanna line threw everyone a curve ball , but I would be surprised if the West Trenton & Northwest lines got funded and built , and Pompton Branch.... As for Metro North there currently upgrading the Danbury Branch , and overhauling the New Haven line for Expansions in CT.... This is also the NY region , we tend to get funding more then say the Boston or Charlotte Regions , theres Bi-Partisan support for Rail here , which also makes all these lines possible. The Lackawanna line and Lehigh Valley lines are being pushed by Republicans and Conservatives...
You've done this thread before and it got closed down because most of the information is uncited, unsubstantiated and conjectural.

Here's the former thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=177978&page=3
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  #6  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2012, 2:06 AM
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Nexis4Jersey Nexis4Jersey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KVNBKLYN View Post
You've done this thread before and it got closed down because most of the information is uncited, unsubstantiated and conjectural.

Here's the former thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=177978&page=3
I had it closed down , don't muck up my new thread.... Grow up , thats all i can say....what your doing now is trolling and creating a mess....
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  #7  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2012, 3:42 AM
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Transit fantasy maps are an allowed topic here. Many forumers have made them over the course of many years. If it's not a topic you want to discuss, just don't open the thread.
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Old Posted Feb 21, 2012, 3:48 AM
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Old Posted Feb 21, 2012, 4:15 PM
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Man, a NJ Transit line to Cape May would be sweet. Traffic during the shore season is a nightmare (like 3 hours from Philly), I'd gladly pay the fare to avoid it. Ofcourse if and when it gets built, I'll probably be old and grey, but at least the next generation would be able to enjoy it.
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Old Posted Feb 21, 2012, 5:30 PM
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Yeah fantasy maps are fine.

A good map with all those proposals would be sweet. I've actually been working on a South Jersey network and I'm looking at what it would take to effect it. See here.

BTW if you're interested here's the map.
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  #11  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2012, 7:08 PM
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Now THAT's what i'm talking about! I really do think that NJTransit should pay attention to South Jersey. I agree that traffic in the summer for South Jersey is a nightmare. They don't have the road network that North Jersey has! NJ55 is a freeway that just disappears and becomes an elongated bottleneck all the way to Cape May. US 322, forget it!

I like that So-Jersey hub there.
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  #12  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2012, 7:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
Yeah fantasy maps are fine.

A good map with all those proposals would be sweet. I've actually been working on a South Jersey network and I'm looking at what it would take to effect it. See here.

BTW if you're interested here's the map.
Just curious but what type of ridership numbers would be needed to make this feasible? I like the military line as in ties in to Moorestown which is one of the major job centers in SJ. I realize that you are using the existing right of ways and that Camden is the center for that but I think it does not really address the commuter problem of where the job centers in the region are sans Camden and Philadelphia. Based off of what I have researched from DVPC.org the main job centers of South Jersey are Cherry Hill (42,890), Camden City (30,575), Mt Laurel (29,395), Pennsauken (21,178), Evesham (19,769), Moorestown (18,214), and Voorhees (17,352).

I guess this leads to my question that yes a lot of people commute to Philadelphia but 179,373 jobs are within the above red box and the majority of those workers do not live in the same town that they work. Do you think rail is able to serve work commuters for this area or are we stuck being attached to cars?
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Old Posted Feb 21, 2012, 8:36 PM
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Jelly Roll, the big problem of the Cherry Hill/Mt. Laurel jobs nexus is that it's in the middle of the largest gap between existing railroads. The best solution there is ultimately light rail.

I haven't really developed a workable ridership projection system, but my eyeballing is that with reasonable equipment and service the Ft. Dix and Millville lines should have the highest ridership, probably on a par with the West Trenton and Lansdale/Doylestown Lines across the Delaware, and the lowest ridership (at least in the commuter section) would come on the Salem Line. That line should still get okay overall ridership, on a par with the Norristown Line.

The legacy network feeds into Camden; once it's fully functional, it can be tied into the existing Regional Rail network for full regional coverage.
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Old Posted Feb 21, 2012, 9:36 PM
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Your Map except a few lines was based on the NJT 2020 plan , which is now pushed till the 2050s... Alot of there plans got sheveled , but are starting to heat up again... TOD will play a huge role and expanding things in South Jersey.

The Cape May line is owned by NJT and leased to the Seashore Museum....service was supposed to be up and running by now but for some reason it got sheveled. It wasn't that expensive to restore , costing between 30-50 Million $$$. It was only to have a few stations. Not that you have there....

The Glassboro line once it get fully built and TOD erupts along that corridor i'm sure will see pressure to extend to Millville then Bridgeton , then Pennsgrove. I can't see Salem though , its to isolated and not much of a population base.

The Mount Holly Branch is also owned by NJT , there was to be service at least to Mount Holly by now but that stalled.... I doubt you could get any support for service to Camden vs Philly. I know they looked at LRT , but decided on Regional Rail. Pemberton recently released a smart growth plan for its town , the Toms River Extension has been thought of. The NJDOT owns those tracks if i'm not mistaken.

The Amboy Branch i had it originally going to Bordentown , but for some reason the Map crapped out. Bordentown is as far as it would go , then you would have to upgrade the platforms and signals , that would be messy. The Amboy Branch has a real chance when the MOM network gets built , so does the Tuckerton line , there in the full build out plans or if opposition to the Matawan line becomes a huge issue....

As for the Atlantic City Dinky service NJT proposed a Bus Rapid Transit system for AC and surround cities and onto the Mainland.
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Old Posted Feb 21, 2012, 10:10 PM
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Actually that area around AC would be perfect for BRT. As it stands loads there would be light. The Mays Landing route would be busier, as it hits more destinations (a mall, a college).

I have a hunch my ideas and the NJT 2020 thingy you're citing look alike because they are both developed off of maximizing use of existing resources. As it stands all the lines I'm using are either active freight lines or (mostly) available ROW*.

--I was thinking of terminating Amboy at Bordentown but Burlington is a somewhat bigger employment center and therefore a better terminus. Getting it to Bordentown, however, is still adequate.
________
*There's a minor exception going down to Tuckerton where the easement was erased and a new would would hence need to be carved out through some back yards.
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Old Posted Feb 22, 2012, 12:54 AM
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Here's an update on the Lackawanna Railway...



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  #17  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2012, 1:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
Actually that area around AC would be perfect for BRT. As it stands loads there would be light. The Mays Landing route would be busier, as it hits more destinations (a mall, a college).

I have a hunch my ideas and the NJT 2020 thingy you're citing look alike because they are both developed off of maximizing use of existing resources. As it stands all the lines I'm using are either active freight lines or (mostly) available ROW*.

--I was thinking of terminating Amboy at Bordentown but Burlington is a somewhat bigger employment center and therefore a better terminus. Getting it to Bordentown, however, is still adequate.
________
*There's a minor exception going down to Tuckerton where the easement was erased and a new would would hence need to be carved out through some back yards.
Yea I did not create any fantasy ideas per say , I just took them from the long term plans NJT had hoped to do by 2020. They've done half of them , so the rest of the proposals are not so far fetched... I never pictured Burlington as a large job hub , who are the employers there? As for Tuckerton , Honestly I don't see a need for Rail to go there , it would cause an explosion of sprawl. The MOM Network calls for service along the Red Bank line back to Lakehurst , the County wants it to go to Forked River which is doable.
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Old Posted Feb 22, 2012, 1:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Yea I did not create any fantasy ideas per say , I just took them from the long term plans NJT had hoped to do by 2020. They've done half of them , so the rest of the proposals are not so far fetched... I never pictured Burlington as a large job hub , who are the employers there? As for Tuckerton , Honestly I don't see a need for Rail to go there , it would cause an explosion of sprawl. The MOM Network calls for service along the Red Bank line back to Lakehurst , the County wants it to go to Forked River which is doable.
Burlington City 4,809 jobs in the city while Burlington Township has 11,148. Job density may be a factor here as Burlington City is rather small in geographic area. I know one of the big employers in the area is Burlington Coat Factory.
If you are interested in employment numbers and how workers currently commute to work and from where this link is helpful for Southern NJ http://www.dvrpc.org/asp/mcddataNavigator/
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Old Posted Feb 22, 2012, 4:47 AM
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That map is so cool, as I can see the small village I used to spend my summers in(at my grandparents house), Tuckahoe.

I did not even think people outside of that village, knew it to put it on a map

Having spent my summers there, I agree the traffic from Philly to the shore is bad. And given the development of the shore towns, rail could work, as that is how people used to get to the shore.
But the question is, will people ride it now, or will they still want their cars.
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Old Posted Feb 22, 2012, 5:11 AM
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That map is so cool, as I can see the small village I used to spend my summers in(at my grandparents house), Tuckahoe.

I did not even think people outside of that village, knew it to put it on a map

Having spent my summers there, I agree the traffic from Philly to the shore is bad. And given the development of the shore towns, rail could work, as that is how people used to get to the shore.
But the question is, will people ride it now, or will they still want their cars.
Theres alot of people who use the Atlantic City line from Philly , and Bus network to Ocean City and the Wildwoods so I have little doubt of a year round or seasonal Cape May line not being extremely popular.

Tuckahoe has a nice train station...


METRO-NORTH--Tuckahoe Station by milantram, on Flickr


METRO-NORTH--8007 passing Tuckahoe IB by milantram, on Flickr
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