What should happen to Shannon Park?

[Dmajackson]

Since it is summer time, the councillors are on vacation, and there are no developments in the news i thought we could start thinking of what we would do with some big parcels of land in HRM (specifically in Hfx, Bfd or Dart.).

Shannon Park is a former military housing community in Dartmouth adjacent to the MacKay Bridge, Burnside, Halifax Harbour, BIO, and Tuft's Cove. It was built in 1950 and was abandoned officially in 2004. The site includes small apartment buildings, a church, a wharf/jetty, a school, and a park (part of the school).

Credit: wdrwilson @ flickr.com

Pro's:
-near Burnside, MacKay Bridge, Hwy 111 and retail on Windmill Road.
-has a shoreline on the Harbour.
-Adjacent to BIO.

Con's:
-Adjacent to low-income, crime-ridden neighbourhoods.
-Next to Tuft's Cove Power Generating Station.
-Loud neighbourhood (MacKay Bridge, Circ, railroad, ect).

So what do you think Shannon Park should be redeveloped into and when should this happen?

[Dmajackson]

For me an ideal redevelopment of Shannon Park would include:

-A trail around the shoreline,
-Retail on Princess Margaret Blvd from CN - Baffin Blvd,
-Residential within the park with the possibility of office,
-Parks at Turple Head and the other head.
-The jetty would become a small ferry terminal.

[hfx_chris]

I still cling to the notion that Shannon Park is the perfect site for a stadium, especially with its easy access to the circ and MacKay bridge. A stadium with parking, park area with possibility of a ferry connection at the shoreline and some retail adjacent to Princess Margaret Blvd. Assuming it will all fit

[phrenic]

I also think it is most suitable for a stadium. Whether Halifax needs/can afford/can support a stadium, I don't know

Another thought - I always thought RIM's "campus style" office would have fit in there.

[Spitfire75]

I like the stadium idea.
But other than that, some nice dense mixed use buildings would be good.
With more residential closer to the water. Throw a ferry terminal in there for good measure.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by phrenic

I also think it is most suitable for a stadium. Whether Halifax needs/can afford/can support a stadium, I don't know

Another thought - I always thought RIM's "campus style" office would have fit in there.

I concur that a stadium would be best for the site. However i am sure the downtown bars and hotels would scream murder if it was to happen.

If it doesn't happen there then it will be cogswell interchange area. I believe the economic's work better for shannon rather then cogswell. Besides cogswell will be the only area without height restrictions for downtown once HRM by design goes through, therefore making it extremely valuable land which would be wasted with a low rise structure.

[hfx_chris]

It would be tight fitting an arena on the Cogswell site, let alone a stadium..

Speaking of the RIM campus, I recall hearing at work that the federal government was considering building a campus style office complex on the Shannon Park site to be used by multiple departments, including Environment Canada and DFO. But that was just water cooler talk.

[Keith P.]

A stadium (I presume we are talking an outdoor football/soccer venue) only makes sense there if you can build a community around it that has restaurants, bars, and some residential. Stadia located on expressways in suburbia or in parking lots in industrial areas generally don't do much for the cities they are in with regard to creating an atmosphere.

The other thing about a stadium there is that being right on the harbour you are looking at much cooler temps for spectators and issues with fog. Ask anyone who spent time in Candlestick Park in SF or the old Cleveland Municipal Stadium on the shore of Lake Erie. Not pleasant.

I don't think we really have a perfect spot for an outdoor stadium here unless you razed some of the slummy areas around Gottingen St., but even that would have issues with traffic and parking. If you were to put it out by the BLIP you could avoid those problems to some extent and at least the restaurants in the park would benefit.

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The other thing about a stadium there is that being right on the harbour you are looking at much cooler temps for spectators and issues with fog. Ask anyone who spent time in Candlestick Park in SF or the old Cleveland Municipal Stadium on the shore of Lake Erie. Not pleasant.

If you were to put it out by the BLIP you could avoid those problems to some extent and at least the restaurants in the park would benefit.

BLIP is also a terrible place for an outdoor Stadium as that area of the city is very fog prone. Everytime I watch evening soccer out on Mainland Common it is often obscured by fog, long before it settles onto the peninsula. Problem is the high plateau of Bayers Lake that is exposed to the southwest.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

A stadium (I presume we are talking an outdoor football/soccer venue) only makes sense there if you can build a community around it that has restaurants, bars, and some residential. Stadia located on expressways in suburbia or in parking lots in industrial areas generally don't do much for the cities they are in with regard to creating an atmosphere.

Agreed 100%; fortunately there is residential in the area, and I'm hoping they would also devote a small section of the land to commercial/retail developments, which might also give incentive to spruce up the Windmill Road area around the KOD/Frans.

[pascalosti]

I always wondered what was up with those buildings!!
I think a mixture of park land, sports fields, trail along the water, maybe some new housing in the mix. Its a big area and dartmouth has way too mucn wasted shore lines.

[halifaxboyns]

I just did a quick check and Canada Lands is not showing it as a project - so I'm assuming DND still retains control?

If they follow typical GOC protocol - they will provide it to Canada Lands; who I hope will do a major project there. They have done Garrison Woods here in Calgary and it is amazing to walk through - all the roads are named after various historic war themes (like Vimmy Ridge, etc) and there is a huge monument in the middle. They are also doing the Village at Griesbach; which is former military land. The Currie Barricks west project and Garrison Green are also there projects here in Calgary - for conversion of old military property into mixed use villages.

For those who may not know about these project; here are some interesting links:
Garrison Woods
The Village at Griesbach

I should point out both projects have been very successful and turned into very high valued properties. When I first visted Calgary; most of the homes in Garrison Woods were going for an average of $350k. They are now averaging about $575K (depending on location) - I saw one that was going for $950K.

One question I would ask though - is about Wallace Heights and the land to the NE and NW. What is that land being used for? I know the gypsum loading facility is there and industrial land is to the NE with the rail line - but there seems to be potential to expand the Wallace Heights area as well?

One last comment I'd make about Shannon Park. If it is built up as a mixed use community - I could see that it would be a candidate for a stadium; if intergrated correctly. The stadium could be part of a component of the waterfront; with a boardwalk, marina and a high speed ferry link to downtown for commuters (with bus service coming down from Highfield Terminal and from Wallace Heights). The boardwalk and marina could then include mixed use buildings much like Bishops Landing - but I would say much taller - the taller parts probably in the 10 to 15 storey range, but the lower points being no less than 5 storeys.

[spaustin]

Garrison Woods is a great little development, but not everything Canada Lands does is innovative. They're the ones who sold the property on the South End of Barrington Street to the Superstore which has left us with a gas station and parking lot fronting Cornwallis Park. Hopefully more effort will go into Shannon Park.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by spaustin

Garrison Woods is a great little development, but not everything Canada Lands does is innovative. They're the ones who sold the property on the South End of Barrington Street to the Superstore which has left us with a gas station and parking lot fronting Cornwallis Park. Hopefully more effort will go into Shannon Park.

Ugh... what pisses me off the most is that the gas station will be there for ages and the area is prime for high density around Cornwallis park.

My hope is that they will eventually build a building in the gap between the train station and the gas station.

[halifaxboyns]

I forgot about the superstore - good point!

I'd like to see the site redeveloped; even if it means removing the gas station. If the city feels it should be something different; they can make it non-conforming and build zoning and policy to get rid of it.

To be honest, I think the space between the station and the gas station could be used for a bus terminal if 'go' like train system from say Truro or the valley were to ever take off. I'd rather see it there, than crammed into the back on Terminal road.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Highrise residential, boardwalk, marina. Interior park, some retail around it. Some towers that look like a fat Stadacona minus the brick would be great.

Bam. Shannon Park.

[halifaxboyns]

Would probably have to be low rise towers near the water with the elevated power line though. So you probably could still have something - just nothing high near the coastline because of vertical clearance.

[Jstaleness]

My #1 vote is also for the Stadium. However I don't see it happening there. In keeping along the story of my Express Bus park and ride departing from somewhere in that area. What about a smaller scale Kings Wharf Style village. Kings Wharf is somewhat selling themselves as a community withing a community with its own food markets and general stores etc.

That same idea would work in Shannon Park. People could ride the express bus to work(if the worked in Halifax) and not need to worry about needing their car because of errands they may have to run after work. All the simple things like food and household supplies would be in that area. Then Sobeys or Superstore would finally have a good reason to build a decent grocery store in the north end. Trinity is still being built up the hill as well so there is even more population to feed.

Anything but what is there now. I think it has been almost 7 years since the bulk of those buildings became vacant. A real shame and a real eyesore for North Dartmouth. If the military has no use for the buildings at least remove the eyesore, place a few benches and picnic tables in there and let people enjoy the beautiful coast line breeze that comes up the narrows.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Google Street view of the site:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&sourc...,91.56,,0,9.07


The site has an excellent tree cover... I think keeping most of the trees and natural beauty could be a selling point if condos were built.

[Canadian_Bacon]

This is one of my favorite spots for a development. It's a great spot, with lots of land etc. I even have my own design for what I'd do with it.

I'd fill some of the shoreline in to make it more 'even' then put in a boardwalk/ pedestrian walkway along the shoreline. Where you see the 'tip' that extends into the water, I'd put a park there so no buildings would be next to the large power lines. I'd have residential, and commercial and make a small community within the community... Self sufficient like Kings Wharf.

The only thing that ruins the spot are the large power lines, and being so close to the power station. Alot of people would hate these things, so it may be a tougher sell.

But I'd love to see this spot be developed. Of all the places in Halifax/ Dartmouth this is my number 1 spot for something.