How does Québec see Canada and itself within Canada?

[ue]

Based on a slew of threads recently in the Canada section, I've come to learn and ponder new things about this nation of ours, and my role within it. One thing that I'm curious about though, is how Québec views itself. This is open to people who live in the province, once lived in the province, or otherwise have firsthand knowledge based on their experiences in the province or with Québecois.

Obviously, Québec is a very unique province of Canada. I'm just wondering, do Québecois see themselves as Canadian? Do they identify as Canadian? Does Anglo Canadiana resonate much with them? Or do they see themselves as a distinct state that just happens to be under the control of another, larger state? What do they think of Canada? Is there bitterness? Is there appreciation?

It seems like I get conflicting information on this, and maybe this thread will just be more of that, I'm not sure.

On one hand, most Quebeckers seem content on staying within Canada, but on the other they don't celebrate Canada Day in reasonable numbers, and it's a well known moving day for people in La Belle Province. Québec, instead, has it's own national holiday and has it's provincial flag on the front lawns of houses; far more than any other province does with its flag.

Another example of that conflict is Québecois, on the one hand, will move to Ontario or out West for jobs, but culturally, will look to France and Latin America for queues, rather than New Brunswick or New York, which are on their doorstep. I think Acajack said something like this recently.

Mostly I'm just curious. I've only been to Gatineau so far, but hope to visit more of the province in the coming years.

[vid]

One word: Controversially.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by ue

Based on a slew of threads recently in the Canada section, I've come to learn and ponder new things about this nation of ours, and my role within it. One thing that I'm curious about though, is how Québec views itself. This is open to people who live in the province, once lived in the province, or otherwise have firsthand knowledge based on their experiences in the province or with Québecois.

Obviously, Québec is a very unique province of Canada. I'm just wondering, do Québecois see themselves as Canadian? Do they identify as Canadian? Does Anglo Canadiana resonate much with them? Or do they see themselves as a distinct state that just happens to be under the control of another, larger state? What do they think of Canada? Is there bitterness? Is there appreciation?

It seems like I get conflicting information on this, and maybe this thread will just be more of that, I'm not sure.

On one hand, most Quebeckers seem content on staying within Canada, but on the other they don't celebrate Canada Day in reasonable numbers, and it's a well known moving day for people in La Belle Province. Québec, instead, has it's own national holiday and has it's provincial flag on the front lawns of houses; far more than any other province does with its flag.

Another example of that conflict is Québecois, on the one hand, will move to Ontario or out West for jobs, but culturally, will look to France and Latin America for queues, rather than New Brunswick or New York, which are on their doorstep. I think Acajack said something like this recently.

Mostly I'm just curious. I've only been to Gatineau so far, but hope to visit more of the province in the coming years.

Hope this helps as an answer: I think that to the average Québécois, if I talked about "our flag" then asked that person which flag exactly they were thinking of, it would generally be the provincial flag ("fleurdelisé"), not the federal flag ("unifolié"/maple leaf flag). I believe it would clearly be the other way around in most other provinces (except maybe Newfoundland...?)

"Does Anglo Canadiana resonate much with them?" Well, to me, there's one Anglo North America that I need to show my driver's license to access, and there's the other one that I don't. (I pay everything by credit card and the dollars are currently at par, so that part is transparent.) That's basically the extent of the difference...

[lio45]

P.S. Keep in mind that your sample of participating Québécois in this thread is going to exclusively consist of people who are willfully visiting and participating in the English-speaking "(Rest of) Canada" section of a forum...

[GernB]

How does Quebec see itself within Canada? Send cash. As much as you can . As fast as you can. That's how Quebec sees itself. Nothing much has has changed in the past 50 years.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by GernB

How does Quebec see itself within Canada? Just send cash. As much as you can . As fast as you can. That's how Quebec sees itself.

But Quebec has historically contributed a lot. Each province has had, and will have, its ups and downs over the centuries. Maybe we'll be the ones sending boatloads of cash to Alberta after their one trick dead dinos has run out.

[ue]

^ I didn't create this thread for people to take quick shots at Quebec or my province (Alberta), or any other place for that matter.

lio45, I posted it here as I figured it would get more traffic and may invite people not in Quebec but with insight to give their two cents. Also, I don't speak French and I probably would've got a few of those.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by ue

^ I didn't create this thread for people to take quick shots at Quebec or my province (Alberta), or any other place for that matter.

lio45, I posted it here as I figured it would get more traffic and may invite people not in Quebec but with insight to give their two cents. Also, I don't speak French and I probably would've got a few of those.

Seriously, ue, you have to realize that this is unlikely to go well. Why not just invite our Quebec compatriots to pm you?

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by lio45

I believe it would clearly be the other way around in most other provinces (except maybe Newfoundland...?)

(Correct. Our flag could be the Republican flag as in my avatar, or our Provincial flag - but it would rarely if ever refer to the Canada flag. The only context I can think of would be if the conversation was specifically about Canada. The flag, on the other hand, could be any of them.)

EDIT: Don't want to post again because it's OT, but just wanted to say: UE, I'm also curious. I love learning about these sorts of things. And it's wonderful to see someone else who is curious and not just trying to set a trap or debate. You're openly asking for people's opinions, not for them to defend themselves. Bravo!

[lio45]

Originally Posted by ue

^ I didn't create this thread for people to take quick shots at Quebec or my province (Alberta), or any other place for that matter.

I thought that went without saying, but apparently it didn't.

lio45, I posted it here as I figured it would get more traffic and may invite people not in Quebec but with insight to give their two cents. Also, I don't speak French and I probably would've got a few of those.

Not saying you shouldn't have, just pointing out a fact.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

(Correct. Our flag could be the Republican flag as in my avatar, or our Provincial flag - but it would rarely if ever refer to the Canada flag. The only context I can think of would be if the conversation was specifically about Canada. The flag, on the other hand, could be any of them.)

I learned only very recently that your avatar wasn't a plain old standard Irish flag, and that if the orange appears to be somewhat pink-ish in that particular pic, it's because it's actually pink...

(I'd say that more than half the new things I learn on here are about Newfoundland...)

/offtopic

[Vaillant]

Originally Posted by GernB

How does Quebec see itself within Canada? Send cash. As much as you can . As fast as you can. That's how Quebec sees itself. Nothing much has has changed in the past 50 years.

well... if Quebec leave tomorrow it is not 15G$ we get from the federal but 15G$ + 60G$ from all our taxes we send to the federal government check the numbers and stop listening to politicians who try to scare Quebeckers!

My point of view on the matter is that I like Canada and have many friends across this country but it is not my country and I will be happy the day that english canadians can decide they own laws as Quebeckers would do the same but differently according to our believes!

[lake of the nations]

Originally Posted by ue

Or do they see themselves as a distinct state that just happens to be under the control of another, larger state?

I think that's how most of Québeckers see it. Even if people here do not seem to be ready to separate, they don't really care about the rest of Canada (Harper is bad, the Rockies are nice, and that's pretty much all). Québec is just like a country within a country.

[ue]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Seriously, ue, you have to realize that this is unlikely to go well. Why not just invite our Quebec compatriots to pm you?

That's a lot of PMs to make out, it's just easier to create a thread so that it is inclusive to people I would've missed that may have something worthwhile to say.

Really, this thread is just an exercise in curiousity about Canada's 2nd largest province. If people can be mature about the topic at hand, I don't see why we can't have a civil discussion. This thread obviously isn't for everybody, so if those people take issue or have no civil insights into the topic, they probably should just ignore it. Seems like things are mostly going smoothly, although this is only the first page.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by ue

Obviously, Québec is a very unique province of Canada.

I used to think that, but after months and months of getting familiar with a Newfoundlander's mindset thanks to this forum, I now think there are two, not one, of those "very unique provinces of Canada". The parallels are striking... although Newfoundland speaks the same language as the ROC, and does not AFAIK collect their own provincial taxes -- instead relying on Ottawa to do so for them -- but to make up for that they're an island, so clearly way further isolated from the ROC than Quebec is, and they've joined Canada lately, whereas Quebec is Canada, originally, so a long shared history vs the least shared history of all provinces.

[Migs]

The answer to the title of this thread is simple, it all depends on how much $ we give them.

[ue]

Can we put the transfer payments thing to rest for crying out loud? I'm looking for serious responses from Quebeckers (past and present) or people who may have insight due to being around Quebeckers, not people in the ROC who are currently doing well economically speaking to piss all over this thread.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ue

Based on a slew of threads recently in the Canada section, I've come to learn and ponder new things about this nation of ours, and my role within it. One thing that I'm curious about though, is how Québec views itself. This is open to people who live in the province, once lived in the province, or otherwise have firsthand knowledge based on their experiences in the province or with Québecois.

Obviously, Québec is a very unique province of Canada. I'm just wondering, do Québecois see themselves as Canadian? Do they identify as Canadian? Does Anglo Canadiana resonate much with them? Or do they see themselves as a distinct state that just happens to be under the control of another, larger state? What do they think of Canada? Is there bitterness? Is there appreciation?

It seems like I get conflicting information on this, and maybe this thread will just be more of that, I'm not sure.

On one hand, most Quebeckers seem content on staying within Canada, but on the other they don't celebrate Canada Day in reasonable numbers, and it's a well known moving day for people in La Belle Province. Québec, instead, has it's own national holiday and has it's provincial flag on the front lawns of houses; far more than any other province does with its flag.

Another example of that conflict is Québecois, on the one hand, will move to Ontario or out West for jobs, but culturally, will look to France and Latin America for queues, rather than New Brunswick or New York, which are on their doorstep. I think Acajack said something like this recently.

Mostly I'm just curious. I've only been to Gatineau so far, but hope to visit more of the province in the coming years.

UE - I like how you have framed the questions and you are honestly inquisitive. Hopefully *most* posters will remain respectful and not turn this into a... hmm... shitshow as we often like to say here.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by lio45

But Quebec has historically contributed a lot. Each province has had, and will have, its ups and downs over the centuries. Maybe we'll be the ones sending boatloads of cash to Alberta after their one trick dead dinos has run out.

Yeah and maybe one day pigs will fly. If the almost impossible happened and Quebec became self sufficient in todays culture, it is highly doubtful that the "entitled" mentality of many people in that province (or should I say nation) would ever allow transfers from Quebec to the west. Hell the only reason why the don't leave Canada is because they know they get a $8Billion dollar cheque every year and then in the next breath complain about how the west produces its wealth lol. Its a pretty safe assumption that if Quebec was a wealthy province that extra 1% of support that is needed would be there to approve separation. But we all know that would never happen.

[MTLskyline]

As long as everyone puts some thought into their posts, I think these sorts of conversations are generally beneficial. Let's try and leave the same old rehashed talking points aside for a bit.

I am as anglo Canadian as you can get, and my extended family on both sides comes almost exclusively from Prince Edward Island. However, I was born and raised here in Montreal, and I feel much more connected to my city and province than I do to PEI. I always jokingly thought of my parents as being first generation immigrants to Quebec. And it kind of feels that way (like I'm visiting my country of ancestral origin) when I visit family on PEI. It is natural that I consider myself both a Quebecer and a Canadian. I can certainly understand that someone with no family outside of Quebec might not feel the slightest bit connected to the rest of Canada, not as a matter of animosity but of indifference. The same kind of indifference one might have toward Iceland, for instance.

There seems to be shifts in mentality among a lot of young anglophone Quebecers. Back in the 1990s, it seemed anglophone university students were just itching to get out of the province after they graduated. Now, it seems as though increasing numbers (including those not from Quebec originally) are choosing to stay here permanently. I myself am graduating from Concordia this spring, and pretty almost everyone I know in my program is planning on sticking around, and those who are thinking of leaving are only leaving because of their poor French language skills. The days of the mass anglo exodus are pretty much finished. The change of government in Quebec City hasn't really altered anyone's plans.

I just hope that if Quebec and Canada part ways they will be good friends. After a bit of time, I think in some ways the relationship might actually improve because interactions will not always be about politics (or money). I would prefer to be separate and to be friends than to be forced to stay together and argue all the time.