Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[IanS]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Umm they have to collect the data and enter it regardless, there is no additional cost for sharing the data.
Heck there are new counters where you don't even have to go to the box they can transmit the data to you in real time.
I don't doubt there is a sizable increase in bike traffic on Dunsmuir as well as increased safety, what I am curious is what are the decreases in parallel routes and what is the total net increase.

Of course, if they know the numbers, there's little additional cost of sharing the data. I would have assumed that was the plan, though perhaps that's naive given the removal of the data for delays due to the Burrard Bridge bike lane.

I also agree there's been an increase in bike use on Dunsmuir, on any report. However, as you say, the real issue is whether it reflects an increase in bike use overall, or just a funneling of bike use onto Dunsmuir.

[aberdeen5698]

Article in the Vancouver Sun:

Bikes versus cars: Who pays their fair share for Vancouver's roads?
http://www.vancouversun.com/Bikes+ve...047/story.html

Bike riders or car drivers? Who are the free riders who fail to pay their fair share of the cost of building and maintaining the city’s roadways?

In Vancouver’s raging bike-car debate, where most people stand tends to depend on where they sit — whether perched on a saddle or ensconced in a car.

But, while you can make a case that neither group pays its freight in a direct way, the facts are clear: People who don’t drive much — including most true bike zealots — significantly subsidize those who drive a lot. And in any kilometre-by-kilometre comparison of city residents who travel exclusively by one mode or the other, drivers tend to pay less than their real costs, while riders pay more.

[madmigs]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Article in the Vancouver Sun:

Bikes versus cars: Who pays their fair share for Vancouver's roads?
http://www.vancouversun.com/Bikes+ve...047/story.html

Excellent article! Explains that while there are more direct costs associated with owning/using a car, most of that go to more senior gov'ts, and that it is really property taxes that pay for most of the roadwork.

[aberdeen5698]

The City has posted the results of its own Hornby Street bike survey:

http://vancouver.ca/mediaroom/news/p...y-Sept2010.pdf

The headline figures:

56% support a bike lane
30% do not support a bike lane
14% were undecided

Interestingly, there was even more support for a separated east/west lane - I strongly suspect this question relates to the Comox Street bikeway which is currently in the planning stage according to: http://vancouver.ca/engsvcs/transpor...ated/index.htm

[Porfiry]

Some interesting nuggets:

"about one‐quarter of those who usually bring a vehicle to the area would consider using a protected bike lane"

That's huge.

"Those under 35 years of age are most likely to support (70%).

The infrastructure of today is built for the people of the future, and the fact that support for cycling infrastructure is very strong amongst those under 35 makes it clear what the trend-line is.

[madmigs]

Some other interesting details among many others:

- Usual mode to this area of downtown: A mix of modes is used, led by walking and transit (47% walk, 35% transit, 24% vehicle/motor bike and 14% by bicycle). Some people report using more than one mode (e.g., equally).

- Mode of travel today: 44% walking, 27% transit, 22% vehicle/motor bike and 7% bicycle.

- Weekend pattern: Walking increases significantly while transit decreases compared to the weekday pattern.

- Most people intercepted are heavy users of the area with 60% here on a daily basis and 84% in the Hornby area at least weekly.

- Among those who travel by vehicle, parkade and street parking are currently used to about the same extent (49% parkade and 44% on the street). As well, 7% were vehicle passengers who were dropped off.

[Stingray2004]

So many ways to interpret this 'survey' - not opinion poll.

Mode of travel today: 22% vehicle/motor bike
56% support a bike lane

So only 22% of those surveyed travelled by motor vehicle, leaving 78% for walking, biking, transit, which is not representative of traffic down Hornby IMHO.

Yet only 56% support a bike lane. One would think that figure would be much higher. But I digress, this matter is becoming too political.

[tybuilding]

The Central Valley Greenway turns one year old

http://buzzer.translink.ca/index.php...-one-year-old/
A section of the Central Valley Greenway in Vancouver.
In June, another of our initiatives turned one—the Central Valley Greenway (CVG)!

If you haven’t had a chance to check out the Buzzer’s no-sweat tour of the CVG, I highly recommend it.

First year stats

TransLink’s planning team passed along about the Greenway’s first year: it served an estimated 350,000 bike trips and 300,000 pedestrian trips in its first year, for a total of 650,000 trips. The estimates are based on three automated bike counters, two automated pedestrian counters and on one manually surveyed location—and the automated counters provide hourly counts, 24 hours a day.

So, I’m told the data shows that the seasonally adjusted number of trips on the Greenway is steadily increasing, both absolutely and in comparison to other major bike routes in Metro Vancouver. If you compare the Greenway to more established bike routes, it’s approaching the bicycle ridership of Ontario Street which is the region’s first or second busiest route.

A chart with some stats!

Annual Trips on the Central Valley Greenway, July 2009 – June 2010

Location Bikes Pedestrians
Victoria Drive (Vancouver) 253,615 158,509
Rupert Street (Vancouver) 178,602 111,626
Winston Bridge/Burnaby Lake Park (Burnaby) 54,362 63,510
Cumberland (New West) 14,600 37,960
Improvements!


New signage is up along the Burnaby section of the Central Valley Greenway!

The new Greenway bridge in Burnaby.
Also, in response to your feedback, new wayfinding has been created and installed along the Burnaby segment of the CVG. The sign’s a bit small in the picture, so just click here for a PDF version of some of the new green route confirmation signage. Yellow destination signage (those yellow “finger signs”) are being installed too.

As well, funding has been allocated by TransLink and the City of Vancouver for a signal at Boundary but the implementation date is not yet determined.

And YES, a new bike bridge has been installed near Still Creek Ave on the Burnaby segment of the Greenway, replacing the rather steep bridge you originally had to use! Look right to see what it looks like.

[tybuilding]

Interesting website showing illegally parked cars or drivers doing illegal moves on bike routes or bike lanes. (Even physically divided bike routes are fair game apparently!)

http://vancouver.mybikelane.com/

[invisibleairwaves]

The CVG is nice, but it could have used better cyclist/pedestrian separation in a few areas. Nothing like exiting Renfrew Station and almost getting smacked by some moron racing for the light.

[aberdeen5698]

The City has posted statistics for the Dunsmuir Bike Lane:

http://vancouver.ca/engsvcs/transpor...cyclingvolumes

In the first two months of the trial, an average of 2,000 cyclists per weekday (peaking at 2,500 a day) have used the Dunsmuir Street separated bike lanes.

It's pretty clear that the bike lane has getting a lot riders onto Dunsmuir than used to be there. What's not so clear is how much this is due to diversion of existing riders from other routes or how much is due to the seasonal effect (the bike lane was opened near the beginning of summer).

I'd love to see statistics for the Union Street bike route for the same period. My experience is that bike traffic on that route surged literally the week the bike lane opened - I see that as a fairly strong indication that the Dunsmuir lanes have indeed attracted new riders downtown that weren't there previously.

[204]

Originally Posted by whatnext

If you're uncomfortable reading current articles in the media that disagree with your point of view, there might be other IBB's you'll enjoy more.

BTW, the quote you took such exception too was from Felix Salmon, a cycling advocate in Manhattan. You might find his blog posts on Reuters of interest:
http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/tag/bikes/

He's a great writer and sees everyone's point of view on these matters:

(this could easily be Vancouver)

"If relations between motorists and bicyclists are bad, though, they’re nothing when it comes to relations between bicyclists and pedestrians. That relationship is positively poisonous, precisely because both sides are thinking of bikers as being more like pedestrians than like cars.

Why do bicyclists ride on the sidewalk? Because they think they’re pedestrians. And in doing so they infuriate the real pedestrians, who deserve the sidewalk to themselves.

And while the majority of bicyclists don’t ride on the sidewalk, most of them do happily sit right in the middle of the pedestrian crosswalk. There’s no culture in New York of bicyclists giving way to pedestrians, and of stopping behind the crosswalk where they’re meant to stop. Instead, when they want to cross the street they do exactly what they do when they’re walking, and go as far as they possibly can without being run over by traffic. In doing so, they can get in the way of dozens of people just trying to walk across the street — and indeed even get directly in the way of fellow bicyclists coming up a bike lane towards them. Bicyclists always seem to forget how long their bikes are: they block off a lot of space, if you’re trying to cross past them.

Armed with their pedestrian mindset, bicyclists are convinced that they can cut easily through people crossing the street, just as they could if they were walking. They’re wrong, of course, but there’s no culture of giving way to pedestrians, because they feel even more defenseless than the pedestrians when it comes to the rough streets of New York City. And potential victims find it very hard to stop and think of themselves as being too aggressive."

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

Interesting website showing illegally parked cars or drivers doing illegal moves on bike routes or bike lanes. (Even physically divided bike routes are fair game apparently!)

http://vancouver.mybikelane.com/

They should do the same thing with cyclists breaking rules, but there are some really stupid people out there, looking at the black Mercedes and the Kia Soul in particular.

[officedweller]

From the Journal of Commerce:

CAPILANO GROUP OF COMPANIES
Bridge components are lowered into place for the Cliff Hanger in North Vancouver.

North Vancouver eco-friendly walkway a real cliff hanger

RICHARD GILBERT

staff writer

Engineers have designed a unique and environmentally friendly walkway that will be attached to the rock face of a river canyon in North Vancouver.

“I could not have got this past the District (of North Vancouver) without having a minimal environmental footprint,” said John Stibbard, vice president of operations at the Capilano Suspension Bridge.

“The habitat loss for the entire project, including trails is 100 square metres. Because I was able to prove the footprint was so small, barely touches the natural environment and educates hundreds of thousands of people a year, they supported the project.”

The new tourist attraction, currently under construction near the Capilano Suspension Bridge, is called the Cliff Hanger. Stibbard came up with the idea of providing visitors with a thrilling ecological experience, after repelling down the east face of Capilano Canyon into jungle-like ferns and mosses.

McElhanney Consulting Services Ltd. is the lead designer on this unusual project, which will extend for 215 metres and hang 90 metres above the waterway at its highest point.

The company was responsible for developing a system for building the walkway that ensures the protection of wildlife and river habitat.

“The survey had to be done by hanging over the cliff with ropes and using rock climbing equipment,” said Mark Frew, manager of the structural division with McElhanney Consulting Services.

“We surveyed the rock face using conventional total station equipment that had to be mounted to the rock face on brackets and produced a 3D digital model. A computer program was used to fit the structure to the rock face.”

One of the main challenges was to conceptually fit the structure to the rock face.

“The concept is a set of stairs and platforms that follow the contour of the undulating rock face,” he said.


CAPILANO GROUP OF COMPANIES
The survey for the Cliff Hanger was done by hanging over the cliff with ropes and using rock climbing equipment. The rock face was surveyed and a 3D digital model was produced.

The cliffside structure will take visitors through rainforest vegetation and the canyon ecosystem on a series of cantilevered and suspended walkways that jut out from the granite cliff face above the Capilano River.

The main structural feature of the Cliff Hanger is a curved suspension bridge that arcs out from the cliff face about six metres and is 20 metres long.

A spiral staircase will take visitors from an existing building to the walkway, which leads to a trail.

The whole structure is made up of seven straight bridges, eight sets of stairs and six platforms, which take visitors along the cliff edge to previously unexplored areas of the park.

Two of the platforms will have glass floors.

“Another challenge was the rock, which was not strong enough in some places,” said Frew.

“The design could not be finalized until all the anchor points were located. The anchor points were installed and then the structure was redesigned to fit the anchor points.

“Then the structure could be fabricated.”

As a result of this problem, Stibbard said the plans for the project were updated 12 times in two years.

Construction on the $3 million bridge began in December 2009, with the installation of these rock anchors that are six metres deep.

The anchors support steel brackets that are screwed into the sheer face of the cliff.

Construction workers hang over the cliff on ropes to install the anchors for the brackets.

The structure was then lowered from the top of the cliff and attached to the rock face.

The process was tricky because the steel fabricator wasn’t able to perform a dry run to make sure the structure fits.

Installation required a small crane and a crew of three people.

Currently, all the metal is installed and about 60 per cent of the wooden decking is in place.

The Cliff Hanger is scheduled to open in May 2011.

The geotechnical engineer on the project is Wyllie & Norrish Rock Engineers, the structural engineer is Morrison Hershfield and the environmental consultant is Phoenix Environmental.

Originally built in 1889, the Capilano Suspension Bridge stretches 137 metres across and 70 metres above Capilano River.

The twenty-seven acre park also includes a Treetops Adventure.

It has a series of elevated suspension bridges that reach as high as 30 metres above the forest floor.

http://www.joconl.com/article/id40558/roadbuilding

[officedweller]

On the walk into work this morning, I noticed that the advance right turn traffic signal installed for buses from westbound Robson to northbound Seymour looks to have been decommissioned - i.e. since the buses now turn at Granville.

[whatnext]

If one needed any proof that council are skewing data to achieve their desired result, one need look no further than the agenda for October 5 at which the Hornby lane will be discussed. Take this nugget:

Cities that have a similar climate to Vancouver have invested in bicycle infrastructure and seen tremendous growth in their bike to work mode share. For example, Copenhagen (which has approximately the same number of rainy days a year as Vancouver) has a bike to work mode share of 37% (City of Copenhagen).
http://weather.msn.com/local.aspx?we...enhagen%2c+DNK

Well, what constitutes a rainy day? According to meteorological sources Vancouver receives an average of 6.2 inches of rain in January roughly 5 times that of Copenhagen! Strikes me a "rainy day" in Vancouver is a little less pleasant than its Danish counterpart. Similar patterns can be seen in most of the winter months. http://weather.msn.com

BTW, was it reported here the projected cost of the bike lane is 3.2 million?

[Spork]

Huh? They are looking at days with measurable precipitation, not volume. This is pretty easy to understand.

Vancouver: 166 days, 1,117mm
Copenhagen: 171 days, 600mm

I think that they are basing this off of whether or not people will bike on a rainy day period. If people will bike on a rainy day, then clearly they will bike less in Vancouver, as rainy days receive twice as much rain, on average. If they won't bike on a rainy day at all, then the cycling participation will be equal. I think that this assumption needs to be tested.

[jlousa]

See I don't mind our rain too much, we usually just get drizzle although this year we have gotten heavy rain a lot more then historically. The biggest thing to me is the hills, putting on a jacket doesn't help with hills. Even the VACC admits that hills are an issue hence why they recommended Hornby over Thurlow as per their recommendation to the city.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Well, what constitutes a rainy day?

Aye, there's there's the rub.

According to the climate data on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen#Climate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver#Climate

...Vancouver does get more inches of rain, but it actually has slightly fewer rainy days (165) than Copenhagen (168). In other words, in Vancouver when it rains it pours, but it doesn't do it quite as often as in Copenhagen.

Another interesting factoid is that Copenhagen has average lows below freezing for four months of the year (Dec-Mar), while Vancouver's average low is always above freezing. Freezing weather, of course, makes bike riding pretty difficult due to ice formation (of course this doesn't mean Vancouver never gets freezing weather, it just suggests it gets less of it).

You can argue weather statistics until the cows come home. Can Vancouver get to Copenhagen levels of cycling mode share? Maybe, maybe not. But IMHO it's really a no-brainer to at least try, for so many reasons (health, congestion, geopolitically expensive oil, climate and pollution concerns, etc. etc.).

Maybe you can't be convinced to ride a bike, but it seems pretty naive to believe that nobody else can, either.

[racc]

Originally Posted by jlousa

See I don't mind our rain too much, we usually just get drizzle although this year we have gotten heavy rain a lot more then historically. The biggest thing to me is the hills, putting on a jacket doesn't help with hills. Even the VACC admits that hills are an issue hence why they recommended Hornby over Thurlow as per their recommendation to the city.

Hills will be a decreasing issue as time goes by. Electric bikes are getting cheaper, lighter and the range is improving.