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  #41  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 1:32 PM
Stephen LaRose Stephen LaRose is offline
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Originally Posted by Wigglez View Post
Just saw this on TSN, cant be good news for Winnipeg's hopes



HABS BOSS SAYS WEAK DOLLAR THREATENS CANADIAN CLUBS

MONTREAL - Montreal Canadiens president Pierre Boivin fears that the sagging loonie could send Canadian NHL teams spiralling back into the dark economic days that preceded the lockout.

Boivin says the league's six Canadian clubs are thriving at the gate and bring in more than a third of the total revenue for the 30-team NHL.

But he identified the tumbling dollar as one of three threats to the continued viability of Canadian clubs.

He also says the NHL's post-lockout revenue-sharing deal to prop up weaker U.S. teams has also left Canadian organizations at the mercy of the dollar's performance.

The Habs' president says Canadian teams each lost tens of millions of dollars in the years before the NHL lockout, a period when they had difficulty piecing together competitive squads.

The NHL lost the 2004-05 season to a labour dispute before the players and owners signed a new collective bargaining agreement, which included a salary cap.

Boivin says the three-year-old salary cap is a better system but it still has aspects that are ''not working well.''

He says he doubts the players and owners will sit down at the negotiating table for about two years, just before the existing agreement expires.

Source
The sliding US economy is going to do more to ruin the NHL in the States than the sliding Canadian dollar will in Canada.
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  #42  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 8:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephen LaRose View Post
The sliding US economy is going to do more to ruin the NHL in the States than the sliding Canadian dollar will in Canada.
Professional sports in general are going to take a hit over the next few years. Luxury items, such as season tickets or even single tickets to entertainment events including sports, will be one of the first things people will cut out of their personal budgets. In fact there it has been shown that tickets to movies increases during economic downturns. This is attributed to people changing their spending habits, e.g. from a $100 sporting ticket to a $10 movie ticket. The LPGA has decided to drop three events for the upcoming year. The prize payout for those events totals 6 million. The number of cars on the NASCAR circuit has decreased because sponsorship is down.

So basically I think it is unlikely a lot of professional sports teams will be able to afford the multi-million dollar salaries. I predict the NHL will lose 2 southern teams. Canadian teams will lose money, but have a solid enough core source of revenue that they will survive. I also predict the NBA, NFL, and MLB will also suffer.

What does this mean for a Winnipeg NHL franchise? In the short term no way in hell, but in the long term the door may be open.
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  #43  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 8:30 PM
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I doubt Winnipeg will get another team within the next 20 years, it is just too small of a city. Calgary and Edmonton are barely big enough to keep our teams.
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  #44  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 8:41 PM
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sadly, i share the same view.
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  #45  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 8:43 PM
Prairie Guy Prairie Guy is offline
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I doubt Winnipeg will get another team within the next 20 years, it is just too small of a city. Calgary and Edmonton are barely big enough to keep our teams.
Exactly, and that is why these two cities are no more deserving of a team than Winnipeg.
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  #46  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Prairie Guy View Post
Exactly, and that is why these two cities are no more deserving of a team than Winnipeg.
It's not about whether or not Winnipeg deserves a team, it's about whether or not Winnipeg can afford to maintain a team, and sadly the economics aren't favourable.
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  #47  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 10:02 PM
Prairie Guy Prairie Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by johnnyc View Post
It's not about whether or not Winnipeg deserves a team, it's about whether or not Winnipeg can afford to maintain a team, and sadly the economics aren't favourable.
But we don't know how long these "hard" times will last, and I'm fairly confident the economy will bounce back. Winnipeg will get a team. Maybe not the next 5 years, but 10-20 years from now we'll be cheering up the Jets once more.
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  #48  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 10:10 PM
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I would say that a population of 1 000 000 is the minimum to sustain a NHL team, and Winnipeg won't hit that mark for a long time. I would love to see a team there again, but I just doubt it will happen.
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  #49  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 10:45 PM
Prairie Guy Prairie Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by johnnyc View Post
I would say that a population of 1 000 000 is the minimum to sustain a NHL team, and Winnipeg won't hit that mark for a long time. I would love to see a team there again, but I just doubt it will happen.
Sorry, but this is a mythical number pulled out of your ass, similar to the IKEA criteria. Time will tell what happens, but I do know that the NHL does in fact need cities like Winnipeg, and not Atlanta or Phoenix. Sorry to burst your "Winnipeg can't achieve" Calgarian bubble, Johnny, but unlike you, I have confidence in this city.
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  #50  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Prairie Guy View Post
Sorry, but this is a mythical number pulled out of your ass, similar to the IKEA criteria. Time will tell what happens, but I do know that the NHL does in fact need cities like Winnipeg, and not Atlanta or Phoenix. Sorry to burst your "Winnipeg can't achieve" Calgarian bubble, Johnny, but unlike you, I have confidence in this city.
man, what are you supposed to be on ritalin or something?


johnnyc makes a good case, and I think the 1,000 000 pop number is reasonable, after 1,000 000 is a midsize city by NA standards. Fact is we don't know if Winnipeg could survive in today's nhl, but I do know this: Winnipeg would do a hell of a lot better than teams based in Florida, California and the fuckin' middle of Arizona.
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  #51  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 11:00 PM
Prairie Guy Prairie Guy is offline
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I just love how the country doubts this city; even many Winnipeggers doubt Winnipeg. What a damn shame. This is a great city, and despite all the negative and ill will (read between the lines from the "Winnipeg can't, too small, too poor" bs rhetoric), the financial backing will come along and make this possible.
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  #52  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 1:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Prairie Guy View Post
I just love how the country doubts this city; even many Winnipeggers doubt Winnipeg. What a damn shame. This is a great city, and despite all the negative and ill will (read between the lines from the "Winnipeg can't, too small, too poor" bs rhetoric), the financial backing will come along and make this possible.
You and me together. It's better to have a hope, than no hope at all. We all hear all that same BS too. So what if Winnipeg always get the short end of the stick, or the NHL will never come back to Winnipeg. Who knows what will happen in the future because frankly NOBODY knows what will REALLY happen in the next 20 years.

What we all know is that, we HAD an NHL team, and we HAD a financial backing to them. Yes, we can all agree that economics of the past have changed since then, but that's beside the point. The point is, there's still that dream, that hope of having an NHL team because we are big time hockey fans because of the baggage we had with the Jets before. If some guy from another city told us and say "yeah, you don't have a team anymore, get with the times" or "your city doesn't have the economic means to support an NHL team" or some sh*t like that, that's fine. They can blabber all they want about us NOT having a team. "Dream on" you might say!? F**K YES!!

Whether you naysayers like it or not, we will keep dreaming until that dream comes true. No matter what. Yes, the reality of what we're in right now is very daunting, but hey, it's better to dream than have no dream at all. We are a hockey town, we've demonstrated way too many times before. If this city is willing to sustain an NHL team, then they'll sustain one. The next move will be the commissioner's. If he decides not to, well hey, too bad, but we move on. At least the dream is still alive.
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  #53  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 1:52 PM
wags_in_the_peg wags_in_the_peg is offline
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Originally Posted by johnnyc View Post
I would say that a population of 1 000 000 is the minimum to sustain a NHL team, and Winnipeg won't hit that mark for a long time. I would love to see a team there again, but I just doubt it will happen.
explain the green bay packers then!

i don't think it can be purely based on population, it's one of many factors. corporate sponsership is #1.
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  #54  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 1:53 PM
wags_in_the_peg wags_in_the_peg is offline
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Originally Posted by Stephen LaRose View Post
The sliding US economy is going to do more to ruin the NHL in the States than the sliding Canadian dollar will in Canada.
not just southern teams, most teams. citigroup lays off 55000 people, many in the new york area. this is going to affect all 3 nhl teams, baseball teams and such.
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  #55  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 3:18 PM
Keng Keng is offline
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I am not under any illusion of the difficulty in getting a team back, but consider it very possible.and although it may be an uphill challenge, throwing out a figure of 1 million population for a successful franchise is ridiculous. All markets are different and it really comes down to a number specific to hockey fans, not urban population. Sheer number of paying hockey fans means more than total population, and a do admit Canadian cities are better for comparison, these US cities with large pops. have far less interest, its been shown time and time again.

And yes I realize corporate support, dollar, arena etc. all play their part. But their are many positives for Winnipeg having an NHL franchise. I suspect the 1 million fits nicely because Calgary/ Edmonton/Ottawa have these populations, but I suspect the number would have been 850,000 if Calgary's population was at that level. Hardly any way of measuring the possibility.

I am not saying it is a legitimate case for us to have a team, I will leave that for the business leaders with the money to put up. But I certainly don't discount it. We have and will continue to do great things in this city, unfortunately most people fixate on what can't be done.
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Last edited by Keng; Nov 21, 2008 at 3:22 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #56  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 4:33 PM
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Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg View Post
explain the green bay packers then!

Haha... The predictable Green Bay argument. Go look at a map.

In fact I'll save you the time.

Q: Explain the Green bay Packers then?
A: Milwaukee

So unless winnipeg has a city of 2 million 1.5 hours from it.......
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  #57  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 4:58 PM
Keng Keng is offline
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Originally Posted by SHOFEAR View Post
Haha... The predictable Green Bay argument. Go look at a map.

In fact I'll save you the time.

Q: Explain the Green bay Packers then?
A: Milwaukee

So unless Winnipeg has a city of 2 million 1.5 hours from it.......
Milwaukee's population has nothing to do with Winnipeg getting an NHL franchise. They are two completely different leagues, and cannot be directly compared. But the Green Bay argument is a valid one. It is still an example of a relatively small NFL market within a very major league.
By your own argument Edmonton and Calgary should not have NHL teams...
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  #58  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Prairie Guy View Post
Sorry, but this is a mythical number pulled out of your ass, similar to the IKEA criteria. Time will tell what happens, but I do know that the NHL does in fact need cities like Winnipeg, and not Atlanta or Phoenix. Sorry to burst your "Winnipeg can't achieve" Calgarian bubble, Johnny, but unlike you, I have confidence in this city.
So if Calgary and Edmonton might be in trouble in the current economy with 300 000 more people and a way bigger corporate base (wags_in_the_peg you are absolutely right, that is a huge factor), how will Winnipeg support another team? the Jets left for a reason.

Now before all you Winnipeggers get defensive, I want another team in Winnipeg, I could care less about Nashville or Atlanta, but the current economics of the NHL are such that Winnipeg can't compete.
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  #59  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by The Jabroni View Post
You and me together. It's better to have a hope, than no hope at all. We all hear all that same BS too. So what if Winnipeg always get the short end of the stick, or the NHL will never come back to Winnipeg. Who knows what will happen in the future because frankly NOBODY knows what will REALLY happen in the next 20 years.

What we all know is that, we HAD an NHL team, and we HAD a financial backing to them. Yes, we can all agree that economics of the past have changed since then, but that's beside the point. The point is, there's still that dream, that hope of having an NHL team because we are big time hockey fans because of the baggage we had with the Jets before. If some guy from another city told us and say "yeah, you don't have a team anymore, get with the times" or "your city doesn't have the economic means to support an NHL team" or some sh*t like that, that's fine. They can blabber all they want about us NOT having a team. "Dream on" you might say!? F**K YES!!

Whether you naysayers like it or not, we will keep dreaming until that dream comes true. No matter what. Yes, the reality of what we're in right now is very daunting, but hey, it's better to dream than have no dream at all. We are a hockey town, we've demonstrated way too many times before. If this city is willing to sustain an NHL team, then they'll sustain one. The next move will be the commissioner's. If he decides not to, well hey, too bad, but we move on. At least the dream is still alive.
Great post, you acknowledge that the situation isn't favourable, but you have to hope. Winnipeg will get a team, but that's sadly a long way off.
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  #60  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 6:09 PM
Prairie Guy Prairie Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by SHOFEAR View Post
Haha... The predictable Green Bay argument. Go look at a map.

In fact I'll save you the time.

Q: Explain the Green bay Packers then?
A: Milwaukee

So unless winnipeg has a city of 2 million 1.5 hours from it.......
You sir, have all the ingredients for being an arrogant, pompous ass of an engineer.
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