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  #221  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 9:19 PM
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Originally Posted by nickinacan View Post
And I'm sure it could be done for less than the $2.8 Billion they are estimating (Rather, grossly underestimating) to build the UBC line, to serve a tiny fraction of the population.
If anything, the $2.8 billion is an overestimate. It is no problem to bore a tunnel and build the stations at $280 million a km.

The UBC Line also serves Fairview, Mount Pleasant, the Great Northern Way Campus, City Hall, the Hospitals, Kits as well as UBC, which is the second largest employment destination in the region as well as being the largest education institution. Oh yeah, it also connects to the Canada Line. Even at $2.8 billion, it would get more passengers per dollar than LRT to South Surrey/White Rock.
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  #222  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 9:30 PM
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Originally Posted by nickinacan View Post
Ah, but you forget about South Surrey, which is essentially the shopping district for White Rock. There are a ridiculous amount of townhouses being built there. The current population is around 60,000, twice that of Port Moody. If Port Moody can have a B-Line, Skytrain (Eventually), West Coast Express and regular bus service... I think South Surrey (Or any of Surrey's Town Centres for that matter) could easily support rapid transit or any sort.
The Evergreen line isnt being built for Port Moody. Port Moody isnt the terminus of the Evergreen line. Port Moody just happens to lie rather fortunately along the NE route's line. Port moody also happens to lie within a continuously urban area, without any large swaths of undeveloped land between it and Burnaby.

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But Skytrain? Nah. Too expensive for the distance. It would make much more sense to run LRT through the South Fraser, as if it were an at-grade Skytrain. Connect all the Town Centres (Including Langley City and North Delta) together and reap the economic benefits. The whole South Fraser region is expected to swallow the vast majority of the population growth in the Metro Vancouver Region anyways, so why get them commuting on transit? It is an easy sell.
Why would you want LRT to South Surrey and White Rock? Why not run the LRT down King George and have a commuter rail line running from White Rock into surrey and then continuing along the existing rail lines into Vancouver. It would result in a much faster trip into surrey and especially downtown and is a much more efficient allocation of funds.

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And I'm sure it could be done for less than the $2.8 Billion they are estimating (Rather, grossly underestimating) to build the UBC line, to serve a tiny fraction of the population. It would be easier (And more cost effective) just to tell UBC to build a Surrey Campus around King George Station. Apparently the demand to get into SFU Surrey is actually now higher than the demand to get into their main campus. Why? Convenience! That's my rant for the day.
I'm sorry how is the UBC line a tiny fraction of the population? Despite the large size of the SOF communities, this hypothetical line down the King George would serve less people than a UBC line and staggeringly less businesses. Also why would UBC build a surrey campus? Many satellite campuses is not necessarily a good thing. I think one of the few redeeming qualities of UBC is their segregated campus.

For the record I dont live on either the proposed UBC line or White Rock line.
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  #223  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 10:40 PM
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It's not the amount of people in a city, but rather the number of people in a catchment area.

There's no reason why LRT in Surrey down King George can't happen in addition to the UBC line.

Commuter Rail isn't a good idea to connect White Rock to Downtown. They already have an express coach on a more direct route doing that. It should be more about connecting Surrey to its parts (Newton, White Rock, Fleetwood, Whalley, Guildford) than connecting Surrey with Vancouver.

White Rock is the kits of Surrey. Lots of people go down there from Surrey and the surrounding area. The corridor is absolutely perfect for LRT and it would improve King George as well.

Surrey's original plan of an L-shaped LRT is a better use of funds than a SkyTrain extension.
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  #224  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 10:54 PM
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^ White Rock is the Kits of Surrey with old folk and minus all the fake tits and pool. Can't compete with Kits for people watching, I'm sorry. White rock is nice though.
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  #225  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by LotusLand View Post
^ White Rock is the Kits of Surrey with old folk and minus all the fake tits and pool. Can't compete with Kits for people watching, I'm sorry. White rock is nice though.
White Rock is the land of the living dead. Average age must be like 70. When I was doing some work in the local Save-On-Foods a couple years ago... nothing but old zombies wandering around acting confused. Seriously. Can't see a lot of those people jumping onto transit to party downtown.
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  #226  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrant View Post
White Rock is the land of the living dead. Average age must be like 70. When I was doing some work in the local Save-On-Foods a couple years ago... nothing but old zombies wandering around acting confused. Seriously. Can't see a lot of those people jumping onto transit to party downtown.
The White Rock/South Surrey area has a good number of high schools and elementary schools. I'm sure those folks would like to hop around the downtown region.
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  #227  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrant View Post
White Rock is the land of the living dead. Average age must be like 70. When I was doing some work in the local Save-On-Foods a couple years ago... nothing but old zombies wandering around acting confused. Seriously. Can't see a lot of those people jumping onto transit to party downtown.
Too true, I was told to come out to White rock beach one time, I like the strip and its restaurants, but was dissappointed by the actual beach and the girls. It has nothing on Kits, English Bay, Spanish Banks etc..
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  #228  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by NetMapel View Post
The White Rock/South Surrey area has a good number of high schools and elementary schools. I'm sure those folks would like to hop around the downtown region.
Agreed....esp the new communites at Morgan Heights/ Grandview Corner
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  #229  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by LotusLand View Post
^ White Rock is the Kits of Surrey with old folk and minus all the fake tits and pool. Can't compete with Kits for people watching, I'm sorry. White rock is nice though.
White Rock is Canada's Monaco, without the Casino and the Grand Prix.
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  #230  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by LotusLand View Post
^ White Rock is the Kits of Surrey with old folk and minus all the fake tits and pool. Can't compete with Kits for people watching, I'm sorry. White rock is nice though.
Don't know who you're apologizing to.
People go down there for the day if they're from Surrey. It's a destination for locals and is perfectly situated for LRT down King George. The fact the the elderly wouldn't be likely to go downtown is exactly what I am talking about. Surrey Central is a far more important destination to many in that part of Surrey. It's not important to have a seamless SkyTrain connection to White Rock.
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  #231  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Distill3d View Post
White Rock is Canada's Monaco, without the Casino and the Grand Prix.
and Monaco.
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  #232  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 11:21 PM
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and Monaco.
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  #233  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 11:33 PM
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the water at white rock beach is so warm - i was really surprised a couple summers ago to be able to wade in it and it was so warm like air temp warm
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  #234  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by nickinacan View Post
Ah, but you forget about South Surrey, which is essentially the shopping district for White Rock. There are a ridiculous amount of townhouses being built there. The current population is around 60,000, twice that of Port Moody. If Port Moody can have a B-Line, Skytrain (Eventually), West Coast Express and regular bus service... I think South Surrey (Or any of Surrey's Town Centres for that matter) could easily support rapid transit or any sort.

But Skytrain? Nah. Too expensive for the distance. It would make much more sense to run LRT through the South Fraser, as if it were an at-grade Skytrain. Connect all the Town Centres (Including Langley City and North Delta) together and reap the economic benefits. The whole South Fraser region is expected to swallow the vast majority of the population growth in the Metro Vancouver Region anyways, so why get them commuting on transit? It is an easy sell.

And I'm sure it could be done for less than the $2.8 Billion they are estimating (Rather, grossly underestimating) to build the UBC line, to serve a tiny fraction of the population. It would be easier (And more cost effective) just to tell UBC to build a Surrey Campus around King George Station. Apparently the demand to get into SFU Surrey is actually now higher than the demand to get into their main campus. Why? Convenience! That's my rant for the day.
I mentioned that In the UBC line thread, the day of giant University campuses is over. The reason you had campuses like UBC or SFU was because communication technology was so poor, thats no longer the case. Its time for the Universities to decetralize like SFU is doing, I mean if UBC doesnt do that than in 50 years the Univeristy is going to be strugling imo. Both SFU and UBC should decentralize further and get more mixed use developments on their lands.
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  #235  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoNeurons View Post
Don't know who you're apologizing to.
People go down there for the day if they're from Surrey. It's a destination for locals and is perfectly situated for LRT down King George. The fact the the elderly wouldn't be likely to go downtown is exactly what I am talking about. Surrey Central is a far more important destination to many in that part of Surrey. It's not important to have a seamless SkyTrain connection to White Rock.
My impression of people who live in White Rock are people that want to get away from the big city. I'm sure there are a lot of bored youth around there that would love to jump on a skytrain, but I can't see the numbers being that high, or worth the billion plus to serve them.
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  #236  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 11:38 PM
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they have their Beamers and their Rovers to get around - apparently after west vancouver that south surrey / white rock area has one of the highest average household incomes
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  #237  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2009, 12:16 AM
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^A few elections ago I remember seeing that South Surrey/White Rock was the third wealthiest electoral district after West Van and one in the Vancouver West Side (whichever one Shaughnessy is in I'm guessing).

White Rock/South Surrey has a lot of old people but the area has a lot of families too and there are many young people there as well as commuters, many of which do commute to downtown Vancouver as well as a host of other places in the Metro of course. I grew up in the area and my father has commuted to downtown for the last ~17 years. I've spent some time in the past commuting from there to downtown myself. I think improved bus connections like B-Lines and the improvements they're doing on Hwy 99 to Richmond are the sort of thing the area needs right now but long term it will definitely need something more substantial like Skytrain/LRT/Commuter Rail, especially if Surrey really does develop a real downtown core of its own.

The population of South Surrey is estimated by the City of Surrey to be about 75,000 currently. The City estimates that it will be the fastest growing area of Surrey for the next two decades and it is estimated to reach 100,000 in less than 10 years from now. This doesn't even include the population of White Rock which is about 20,000. The combined population of South Surrey/White Rock is currently 95,000, and according to City of Surrey projections will hit 100,000 in two years and 150,000+ by 2031.

Source: http://www.surrey.ca/Doing+Business/...rojections.htm
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  #238  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2009, 12:34 AM
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Yes, but there is no reason why commuter rail supplemented by a B-line up King George wouldn't suffice for the next 15 years at least. A B-line up KG would meet capacity demands, especially when many of the longer haul trips would be handled by a commuter rail line.

B-lines are actually quite effective, especially if they are given lane priority and que jumping capability.
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  #239  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2009, 12:51 AM
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Well, you guys should also know that the only bus connecting White Rock to downtown Vancouver, the #351, is facing a re-route. The route will take the busy to Richmond instead and we have to take the Canada Line to go downtown. I don't get why we cannot have a separate bus going to Richmond instead. Having to transfer like that to go downtown is so annoying and troublesome...
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  #240  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2009, 1:08 AM
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Yes, but there is no reason why commuter rail supplemented by a B-line up King George wouldn't suffice for the next 15 years at least. A B-line up KG would meet capacity demands, especially when many of the longer haul trips would be handled by a commuter rail line.

B-lines are actually quite effective, especially if they are given lane priority and que jumping capability.
I'm not sure if I exactly agree with your commuter rail idea. I think a LRT should be built along King George to White Rock, only if there is a sufficient amount of commuters. Commuters to downtown can use the Express Buses, then the Canada Line. But again, we would have to see how popular the new #399 (soon-to-be B-Line) performs first.

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Well, you guys should also know that the only bus connecting White Rock to downtown Vancouver, the #351, is facing a re-route. The route will take the busy to Richmond instead and we have to take the Canada Line to go downtown. I don't get why we cannot have a separate bus going to Richmond instead. Having to transfer like that to go downtown is so annoying and troublesome...
It's faster. I'm not sure about you guys, but I would rather transfer routes knowing it is faster than taking one route.
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