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  #261  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2009, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by fever View Post
I think the distances get to be too big to make extending skytrain worthwhile. It's just too long of a ride with too many stations.
Dig the map. Love the potential Seattle connection (WCE?) and Chilliwack connections. Though I don't see why you couldn't preserve the north line for train 1 to Mission and Masquti. as for train 6 to Chilliwack, why not just make that an extention of the Mission/Masquti line?

One thought I had, why not add this route aswell:

- Originating in Port Kells, have a line that runs down 104th in Surrey to Gateway (for a transfer onto Expo Line)

- North across the new Port Mann, with transfers along the Millenium Line at Sapperton and/or Braid

- Would run parrellel to or along the same lines as the new Evergreen Line starting at Burquitlam

- Branch off or away from the Evergreen Line at Coquitlam Centre, and would shadow the tracks through Pitt Meadows and Maple Ridge until the Golden Ears Bridge, where it would cross and would meet up with it's start point.


It would eliminate the need for the Port Coquitlam line and either the Pitt Meadows or Maple Meadows stations, making the WCE more of an express line for the area while the new Skytrain or LRT line would have the frequent stops. While decreasing the WCE travel time by only a marginal amount of time (5-10 minutes), the lack of frequent stops in the area would have the psycological effect of seeming much faster and more express with the lesser stops, for both people in the local area and commuters coming from all the way down the line in Mission

The areas it would travel through are still fairly low density, and while people may want this preserved in most of Pitt Meadows and Maple Ridge, there is no reason why Surrey down 104th couldn't use the incentive, and by going through Port Kells the line connects all the residential to an industrial employment area, giving commuters a single non-stop trip once they get on the train.
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  #262  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
the NE falls into the GVRDs growth plan and they are expected to absorb a certain amount of population and prepare for growth

I live in the NE and think the money should be used elsewhere first - or just use it to build a direct surrey-coquitlam line instead - as it is people wanting to go to guildford or surrey centre still have to go via new westminster and transfer etc making it a longer trip than driving

and for downtown people living in the NE they have the West Coast express so the e line is useless to them
WCE only run during peak hours. So basically if you want to travel outside of peak, you're screwed.

I thought you live close to Lougheed Mall, where it actually got served pretty well by M-Line and the 97 B-Line. But if you go anywhere east of Port Moody and away from Coquitlam Station, the time it take you to go anywhere via transit is pretty much comparable to places like Langley and White Rock.

This is a map I showed to my friend about how horrible the transit in my area (NE Poco) is... Areas with green marker are the places within 1 hour bus ride from a rapid transit station.. and the yellow markers will be green after Canada Line opens.. All places are tested using google map by setting the departure time to 12pm, and will be marked green if any of the 3 suggested trips between 12pm and 1pm takes less than 1 hour to complete. So out of those areas with red markers, NE PoCo and Coquitlam does seems pretty out of place, does it?

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  #263  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 2:25 AM
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Wherever possible, I've tried to completely separate commuter/interurban/regional lines from freight lines. I want to avoid scheduling conflicts. I don't think there's a need for redundant regional lines, and fewer track-kms should reduce maintenance costs, the cost to electrify the system, and increase frequencies on alignments that are shared between routes. This forces a few choices: Central Valley or Burrard Inlet, North Fraser/Marine Way or the parallel alignment in Richmond, Southern or the tracks along the Fraser, and Crescent Beach or 152nd. Some routes, especially a few hundred metres in Maple Ridge, would need to be expanded to accommodate freight on separate tracks.

The designation between regional and LRT is a bit subjective, but I'm going with train type. For regional trains, I have Bombardier Talent DMUs in mind. Ottawa uses them on their LRT system. They're much smaller than WCE trains, and I think they would be acceptable on the Arbutus corridor/North Fraser alignment as long as they're slow enough in residential areas. I don't think these trains would be appropriate on street anywhere, for example on 152nd in South Surrey.
http://www.bombardier.com/en/transpo...01260d80010343

The route between Abbotsford and Langley parallels an old rail ROW, but only uses it when near Aldergrove. The Scott Road/Braid tunnel is the most expensive component. Otherwise, all the other regional routes use existing rights-of-way.

The purple line in Surrey/North Delta is on Scott Road, and it's meant to target strip malls for redevelopment. It's shown on 96th Avenue but 100th might be a workable alternative. In any case, there aren't any large strip malls on Scott Road north of 96th or on 100th, and there is one on 96th half way between Scott Road and King George. A 104th alignment between Scott Road and King Geroge would add unnecessary hills, and it would be less direct from Scott Road south of 96th to Surrey Central than a 96th Avenue alignment.

I agree there could be fewer stations on the Squamish regional line. It could also be removed altogether because it's much less important than other lines.

I made it in Inkscape.

Matsqui isn't important. It could be removed. The 6 to Chilliwack is infrequent like the Squamish or Seattle trains. One of the areas that I think is underserved in the map is the 200th Street corridor in Langley. It's an area that's going to grow quickly. But I don't foresee it being possible to extend light rail over the Golden Ears to Maple Ridge, so the 200th Street route is shown as a B-Line.
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  #264  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 3:22 AM
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But I don't foresee it being possible to extend light rail over the Golden Ears to Maple Ridge, so the 200th Street route is shown as a B-Line.
Wasn't that designed into the bridge?
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  #265  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 3:43 AM
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I think this should all go to the Transit Fantasies thread...
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  #266  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 3:45 AM
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Originally Posted by nname View Post
WCE only run during peak hours. So basically if you want to travel outside of peak, you're screwed.

I thought you live close to Lougheed Mall, where it actually got served pretty well by M-Line and the 97 B-Line. But if you go anywhere east of Port Moody and away from Coquitlam Station, the time it take you to go anywhere via transit is pretty much comparable to places like Langley and White Rock.

This is a map I showed to my friend about how horrible the transit in my area (NE Poco) is... Areas with green marker are the places within 1 hour bus ride from a rapid transit station.. and the yellow markers will be green after Canada Line opens.. All places are tested using google map by setting the departure time to 12pm, and will be marked green if any of the 3 suggested trips between 12pm and 1pm takes less than 1 hour to complete. So out of those areas with red markers, NE PoCo and Coquitlam does seems pretty out of place, does it?

they have the busses which run a lot for whats there now busses do well enough

maybe in 20 years add somethign and put what money there is to an area that needs it more
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  #267  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 4:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Canadian Mind View Post
Wasn't that designed into the bridge?
No.
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  #268  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 7:21 PM
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cool map nname. As someone who has struggled with the crap transit service in PoCo, I can attest to its accuracy. People seem to forget about PoCo when transit improvements to the northeast are brought up. Just look at the Evergreen Line. The logic seems to be we can run it only to Coquitlam Station and by default the whole tri-cities will be served. Add to that is the fact that all of our community shuttles terminate at PoCo Station to serve rush hour WCE commuters and then serve absolutely no purpose during off-peak hours since nobody has any reason to go to PoCo Station unless they're catching the WCE! I've been lucky because I live within walking distance of Lougheed Highway and can catch the 701 to take me to Coquitlam Station, and from there I can transfer.
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  #269  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 9:13 PM
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Originally Posted by David View Post
cool map nname. As someone who has struggled with the crap transit service in PoCo, I can attest to its accuracy. People seem to forget about PoCo when transit improvements to the northeast are brought up. Just look at the Evergreen Line. The logic seems to be we can run it only to Coquitlam Station and by default the whole tri-cities will be served. Add to that is the fact that all of our community shuttles terminate at PoCo Station to serve rush hour WCE commuters and then serve absolutely no purpose during off-peak hours since nobody has any reason to go to PoCo Station unless they're catching the WCE! I've been lucky because I live within walking distance of Lougheed Highway and can catch the 701 to take me to Coquitlam Station, and from there I can transfer.
The bad thing is, they now take away the 701 stop at Coast Meridian, so there's now a 1.5km gap between stops in one of the most populated area in PoCo. Actually, the fastest way for me to get to Braid station right now is to take the 701 to Pitt Meadows, and then transfer to 791.
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  #270  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 10:25 PM
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The bad thing is, they now take away the 701 stop at Coast Meridian, so there's now a 1.5km gap between stops in one of the most populated area in PoCo. Actually, the fastest way for me to get to Braid station right now is to take the 701 to Pitt Meadows, and then transfer to 791.
streetcar?
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  #271  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2009, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by nname View Post
The bad thing is, they now take away the 701 stop at Coast Meridian, so there's now a 1.5km gap between stops in one of the most populated area in PoCo. Actually, the fastest way for me to get to Braid station right now is to take the 701 to Pitt Meadows, and then transfer to 791.
Maybe it's because Poco wants the town centre to maintain its "prominence" by forcing buses and community shuttles to (1) terminate at Downtown Poco and (2) going to Coquitlam Central Stn via there. Besides taking the 189 at rush hour or driving the car, it is one big pain in the ass to get from Northside Poco to Coquitlam Centre by transit as it requires at least one transfer for most trips (nobody's gonna remain on the C38 after stopping at Saughnessy and Lougheed unless you have another 30 minutes to waste). For such a short distance it is unacceptable.

But this is the Expo Line thread. Maybe we can vent our anger on a new thread...
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  #272  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2009, 6:02 AM
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Let's get back into the topic, will Falco's departure from the Ministry of Transportation derail the Surrey extension into Fleetwood, or will there be alignment changes (say, from going along 104th to 100th)?
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  #273  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2009, 12:36 AM
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i dont know how it will go down 104 to guildford at 152, it will go down to 140 and fraser hwy for sure and cut through green timbers to about 100th and 152 then down to fleetwood. watch and see.
It's all been made public, it sometimes just takes some lucky searching. The following is copied/pasted:

Future extensions

On January 14, 2008, plans were announced to extend the Expo Line by 2020, adding a total of six kilometres of track east to Guildford, south on 152nd Street, and south-east on the Fraser Highway to 168th Street.[1] Other future extensions (2030) include continuing along the Fraser Highway to Langley Centre in Langley, as well as a separate branch from Surrey Central south along King George Highway as far as 64th Avenue.[1][dead link] Details of this extension were not made public at the time of the announcement. At the same time, plans were announced for the expansion of all stations on the Expo Line to hold 8-car Mark I trains and 6-car Mark II trains.
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  #274  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2009, 12:57 AM
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So they are planning on forking the line again? wont this cause frequency problems in the future?
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  #275  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2009, 1:59 AM
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So they are planning on forking the line again? wont this cause frequency problems in the future?
Not necessarily. Of course, the frequencies at the Surrey branches will drop. Interlining with the Millennium Line, however, is a different story since that will also have to take the Evergreen Line into account. With Surrey's scenario, it's not as problematic. You can also limits the time it takes to travel the Surrey branches, which is what the Canada Line does, thus controlling the frequency.
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  #276  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2009, 2:37 AM
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Other future extensions (2030) include continuing along the Fraser Highway to Langley Centre in Langley, as well as a separate branch from Surrey Central south along King George Highway as far as 64th Avenue.
First time that I've heard of that and it's certainly ambitious. That's roughly another 20 km or so of total Skytrain lines each ending in relatively close proximity to Hwy 10.
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  #277  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2009, 3:02 AM
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Gotta beat Dubai somehow, right?
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  #278  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2009, 3:05 AM
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The downside to this is that there's going to be quite some time before Surrey gets their regional centres linked up to rapid transit. These projects will certainly come at a cost and it will not be cheap. I don't mind it though: it's about time the South of Fraser gets a rapid transit investment level as high as Vancouver has/is going to get.
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  #279  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2009, 5:20 AM
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How much cheaper is Skytrain per km when we're talking about at-grade or easily elevated sections, like these extensions, vs. the nightmare of VCC to UBC (nightmare in many ways).
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  #280  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2009, 5:39 AM
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Also the stations in theory in certain sections could be spread out far in certain sections. Which would help with the travelling time.
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