Broadway Rapid Transit Corridor Discussion | Proposed

[Canadian Mind]

Okay, here is my addition to your idea. The point of my idea is that it will take zero transfers to get to downtown Vancouver from the core of each district, aswell as only one transfer between each of these districts... The districts I am reffering to Are Burnaby, Surrey, Richmond, and the southern Portion of Vancouver.

In this case, I continued the Ring line eastward beyond boundary, all the way to Kyle/Queens, however I kept the route the same. In keeping with the idea that NO trains should have to do the whole switching of direction at Waterfront, I continue the expo line to Boundary as well. Not it follows the original ring line suggestion south through Wellingdon and to Brentwood town centre. The difference being that instead of merging with mellenium line, it simply crosses it at Brentwood, and continues southbound too Metrotown, where it again crosses the tracks at the station. After this the intent is for the train to continue southwest until it hits Canada line, either in Richmond or South Vancouver.

The purpose behind continuing the ring line eastbound is to give the University there (SFU?) a connection to skytrain, and simplify that portion of the system (less stations running the two lines for millennium and Ring Lines). The purpose to the southbound expo line is purely to shorten the distances between the regional centres. with Construction of Canada Line, it will be possible to get to Richmond in one transfer, but by having the southbound line, it is possible to get to Richmond even faster from surrey or Burnaby with just one or two transfers (depending on whether the line crosses the river, or connects with Canada Line in South Vancouver).

I do this because I've read many times over that there is to much focus on sending people downtown, and not elsewhere in the region. I believe this to be true, and hope that it would allow people who live in Burnaby or Surrey to be able to take a more effective transit system to Richmond over a bus or car.

Here is my even shittier map, plagiarized from the guy above me. Sorry for not labeling any potential stations, I'm not THAT familiar with the areas on here. Only reason I have a connection to 52nd street is because I couldn't find a better spot to represent where I would want the track to end up (preferably in Richmond)

[SpongeG]

that leg along the barnet is not that populated plus it already has the west coast express - would be a big waste of money

but good ideas - i think more north south connections need to be done

[fever]

I don't think that every centre in Burnaby needs a direct connection with every other centre. At least that's not a priority. I think it's best to start off with a B-Line. There should be one between Metrotown and Brentwood, and probably another or the same one between Brentwood and Lonsdale. Hastings and 41st are already penciled in. Eventually these should be replaced with rail, maybe with a different route.

More long range, something that hasn't really been considered yet like Richmond-Surrey, Richmond-New West, Richmond-Metrotown or Surrey-Coquitlam, might start looking worthwhile. I'm not sure. These aren't exactly easy trips to do on transit the way it's set up right now.

[renthefinn]

I like the idea of a ring line, but how many routes can we have running on the same tracks, capacity will be reached, way too soon, so we're looking at completely increasing capacity with at least another track. Would that be better served somewhere else, or are we willing to commit 3 rapid transit lines to one corridor?

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

i don't really like your idea. it's a bit too much for Burnaby, and i think 57th is the wrong route. There's a lot more density and volume along 41st. I can see streetcar/LRT along 41st from Joyce to UBC in a few decades.

[Canadian Mind]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

i don't really like your idea. it's a bit too much for Burnaby, and i think 57th is the wrong route. There's a lot more density and volume along 41st. I can see streetcar/LRT along 41st from Joyce to UBC in a few decades.

57th was a rough call, i am not to familiar with an area, so i figured 57th a nice finish, it provides a northeast-southwest connection, which hooks up all the municipalities.

If 41st would make a better choice, than so be it. as long as commuters can easily get from Burnaby and surrey to Richmond, it doesn't much matter. the point of that leg is that it seems like a long inefficient trip to go all the way to the CBD to get to Richmond coming from surrey or Burnaby.

As for the thing about the centres in Burnaby not needing connections with every other centre, in the long term they will someday (50 years), plus as burnaby is pretty much central in the region, its difficult to avoid its centres, so it might aswell be integrated with the system now rather than sometime down the road when it would be more expensive.

[deasine]

Oh my turn to put mine... I didn't do the Transit on 41st or Marine Drive and Willingdon. I don't really see those are THAT important.



Took me a while 'cuz I used Visio. Stupid Microsoft. Haha but I dont' mind doing these now that I am done my provincals =D only one next year =D

And yes, I realizse that it is not in scale =P

If the Coqitlam areas were done PROPERLY, then it would have the Expo Line being whats the Evergreen Line (section on Barnett Hwy) and the Southeast Rapid Transit Corridor (it was studied)

[twoNeurons]

Willingdon corridor serves BCIT but you're right there's notta lotta density there.

If frequencies were upped there it would be sufficient.

Saying all that, however, a north south line along willingdon or renfrew or any arterial would connect north burnaby, east/north Vancouver with all three transit lines. Enabling someone on EAst Hastings to avoid needing to go on a crowded downtown train when they want to go the opposite way.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by deasine

Oh my turn to put mine... I didn't do the Transit on 41st or Marine Drive and Willingdon. I don't really see those are THAT important.



Took me a while 'cuz I used Visio. Stupid Microsoft. Haha but I dont' mind doing these now that I am done my provincals =D only one next year =D

And yes, I realizse that it is not in scale =P

If the Coqitlam areas were done PROPERLY, then it would have the Expo Line being whats the Evergreen Line (section on Barnett Hwy) and the Southeast Rapid Transit Corridor (it was studied)

this actually makes a lot of sense....good job.

[eduardo88]

The thing i was trying to do on mine was to simplify the transit lines as opposed to deasine's idea where the M-Line remains a sort of cut off figure 8. M-line would be strictly east-west, expo would be north-south to surrey, canada line north-south to richmond and the ring line would allow anyone from Burnaby, Port Moody, and Coquitlam a one seat ride downtown.

That was the following communities would have no transfer service to downtown

Burnaby
Surrey
East Vancouver
Mid Vancouver (Cambie area)
New West
Richmond

Communities with one transfer service to DT

Port Moody (M-Line->Ring Line)
Coquitlam (M-Line->Ring Line)
Westside Vancouver (Bus->Canada or Expo)

I decided to make the ring line connect with the M-Line at brentwood because the tracks could easily be spurred between brentwood and gilmore. It would be nice to have direct SkyTrain to SFU so i'm going to work on a map with the Ring Line passing there, all the while changing the M-line to east-west only. there really would be no need to continue M-Line downtown as that would cause 3 different SkyTrain lines to share one stretch of track going downtown, which could be a bit confusing. This way the only time two lines share track is due to Ring Line. Also I guess frequencies could be increased to 90 seconds for each line's trains for a combined frequency of 45 seconds on shared portions during peak hours, though it wouldn't probably be needed as Burnaby, Port Moody and Coquitlam residents would have the Ring Line to go DT and not need to use the Expo line, thus freeing up alot of space on those trains.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by tintinium

Willingdon corridor serves BCIT but you're right there's notta lotta density there.

If frequencies were upped there it would be sufficient.

Saying all that, however, a north south line along willingdon or renfrew or any arterial would connect north burnaby, east/north Vancouver with all three transit lines. Enabling someone on EAst Hastings to avoid needing to go on a crowded downtown train when they want to go the opposite way.

ah yes but we know Burnaby unlike Vancouver promotes and has a good record of densifying the areas once skytrain comes in so if a line were put in the area would quickly densify

[mr.x]

if SkyTrain were extended to SFU via Hastings, they'd probably have to do something similar to Beacon Hill Station in Seattle....elevators are required to bring people from ground level to the station platform because the tunnel is so deep:



or instead, build a tram as SFUVancouver mentioned from a SkyTrain station at the bottom of the mountain like what Portland recently built:

The tram travels a horizontal distance of 3,300 feet (5/8 mi, 1 km) and rises 500 feet in a ride that lasts three minutes.[2] Its upper terminal is 140 feet above grade, and connected to the ninth floor of a new patient care facility on the university's campus. Its lower terminal in the rapidly growing South Waterfront connects to the Portland Streetcar for direct service downtown. A single intermediate tower supports the tram's cables between the two terminals, allowing the tram to rise 500 feet over Interstate 5. Almost all of the journey is near its upper elevation, making the tram easily visible for some distance, and providing good views of the eastern metropolitan area and the Cascade Mountains of Oregon and Washington.

The tram was estimated to cost $15 million in 2003 (although that figure was called "political" by the tram's designer in November of that year)[3], but was completed for $57 million in 2006,[4] one of several sources of controversy over the project. The tram opened to OHSU employees on December 1, 2006,[5] and to the public on January 27, 2007.[6] The tram, in addition to the Portland Streetcar and MAX Light Rail, rounds out a diverse network of public transportation in Portland.

Through the end of April 2007, cumulative ridership on the tram was in excess of 300,000.[7] Limited Sunday service will operate for the summer until September 20, 2007.[8] The fare on the tram is $4.00 round trip, but free for OHSU employees and patients.[9]

The tram cars carry a maximum of 78 passengers per trip, with cars leaving every 5 minutes.[10] Transportation officials estimate the tram will carry over 1,500 people a day initially, with up to 5,500 by 2030.

a tram is much more cheaper and would be ideal from Production Way Station to SFU.

[fever]

A hub and spoke system of short surface lrt lines that connect downtown Vancouver to its streetcar suburbs - Main, Kingsway, 4th, Hastings, etc - seems very reasonable as a tool to develop the rest of Vancouver proper. However, a regional hub and spoke system doesn't make sense given Vancouver's multiple regional centres. Instead, I'd prefer a network of shorter separate lines that go in a single direction from one major centre to another major centre. This necessitates a single transfer for some trips, but it avoids excessive interlining and it makes it easier to tailor the technology to the route.

[SpongeG]

i thought that SFU had its own plans for something - i remember hearng years ago they had plans to set up some kind of street car or people mover from the lougheed highway

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i thought that SFU had its own plans for something - i remember hearng years ago they had plans to set up some kind of street car or people mover from the lougheed highway

a streetcar carrying all those people would be terribly slow....just like the existing buses going up that mountain while you see cars go by 50% faster than the bus. a tram would be the best option i think....no need to go up the curvy windy road up the mountain.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

a streetcar carrying all those people would be terribly slow....just like the existing buses going up that mountain while you see cars go by 50% faster than the bus. a tram would be the best option i think....no need to go up the curvy windy road up the mountain.

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i thought that SFU had its own plans for something - i remember hearng years ago they had plans to set up some kind of street car or people mover from the lougheed highway

I'm just looking at Google Earth right now. I don't know if there's room to accomodate such a skytram station at Production Way-University Station area. How big would the skytram station have to be? Would any properties block its ROW (ex- poles for the tram)?

But in any case, I think it's an interesting idea that Translink should pursue. But how much savings in time would that be over the current buses going via Gaglardi Way?

[deasine]

HAHA I was just like on my map, SkyTrain will just CUT THRU the Mountain straight up HAHA ROFL.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

I'm just looking at Google Earth right now. I don't know if there's room to accomodate such a skytram station at Production Way-University Station area. How big would the skytram station have to be? Would any properties block its ROW (ex- poles for the tram)?

But in any case, I think it's an interesting idea that Translink should pursue. But how much savings in time would that be over the current buses going via Gaglardi Way?

Well, this is Portland's tram station at the ground, not very big:



No towers needed for quite some distance:



Right now, Portland's tram runs every 5 minutes and each of the two-tram cars carries 78 people.

78 people x 12 (60 minutes/5 minute frequency) = 936 passengers per hour per direction on Portland's tram.


Ours won't have the same frequency since the distance from Production Station to SFU is more than twice of Portland's 1,000 metre distance.....are there any bigger tram cars around? :p



Stations aren't very big:

[MolsonExport]

Wow. I am jealous of all the great mass transit expansion happening out in my former home of Vancouver.

[Canadian Mind]

can't we set a tram up more like a ski lift, with 3 or more cars running at once in a loop?