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  #41  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 10:25 PM
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I really don't think that the new saddledome (or whatever it ends up being,) is going to leave the Stampede Grounds. The Stampede is going to want to have a 18-21k arena at their disposal, (that is an essential part of their long term plans to be a year-round destination and the city is not going to want to operate an arena without the Flames as a tenant. The space, transit connections, parking are already in place. It would be asinine to relocate the Flames away from the Stampede Grounds and I would be dead against it. Look at the satellite image of the grounds, there is certainly enough room north of the usual midway for the Stampede to operate in a reorganized configuration for a couple years.

I'd also like to see something that has a proper street level interface on, not something on it's own surrounding by a sea of parking.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffwhit View Post
I really don't think that the new saddledome (or whatever it ends up being,) is going to leave the Stampede Grounds. The Stampede is going to want to have a 18-21k arena at their disposal, (that is an essential part of their long term plans to be a year-round destination and the city is not going to want to operate an arena without the Flames as a tenant. The space, transit connections, parking are already in place. It would be asinine to relocate the Flames away from the Stampede Grounds and I would be dead against it. Look at the satellite image of the grounds, there is certainly enough room north of the usual midway for the Stampede to operate in a reorganized configuration for a couple years.

I'd also like to see something that has a proper street level interface on, not something on it's own surrounding by a sea of parking.
I am totally with you on this one. I think that as the years go by there will be less of a focus on the Midway at the Stampede. I feel that the entertainment will diversify, thus the rides and games will become more spread out.

Just a question. On the Stampede ground PDF what is the building that will be going in in the middle of the track? Any ideas?



Oh and might I add that it would be great if the arena had some sort of practice facility (ice included) where the Flames could hold practices.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 10:59 PM
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Never mind the new arena, folks--I just want some assurance that the $22.40 the McMahon Stadium Society just tacked onto my Grey Cup tickets is going to go into sprucing up the place.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 11:08 PM
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Never mind the new arena, folks--I just want some assurance that the $22.40 the McMahon Stadium Society just tacked onto my Grey Cup tickets is going to go into sprucing up the place.
I sat in the McMahon Stadium Society box this year and got into some discussions with the guys about the renovations and such. Much of the attention is going to the West stand where they are adding on to the dressing rooms along with the concourse.

Unfortunately, there was not enough time before the Grey Cup to tear down the existing scoreboard locker rooms and offices. Although from what I understand time wasn't an issue as much as funds were. I think that after the Grey cup this year we wil see the serious renos come to fruition!
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  #45  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2009, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Innersoul1 View Post
I sat in the McMahon Stadium Society box this year and got into some discussions with the guys about the renovations and such. Much of the attention is going to the West stand where they are adding on to the dressing rooms along with the concourse.

Unfortunately, there was not enough time before the Grey Cup to tear down the existing scoreboard locker rooms and offices. Although from what I understand time wasn't an issue as much as funds were. I think that after the Grey cup this year we wil see the serious renos come to fruition!
Let's hope. I do know they've been working quite a bit on the west side, one day last week they had a half dozen concrete trucks and 2 pumps working on the NW corner of the stadium pumping to somewhere inside. Most of the work around the exterior looks to be pretty much done (such as the new block of what appears to be offices on the SW corner)
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  #46  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2009, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffwhit View Post
I really don't think that the new saddledome (or whatever it ends up being,) is going to leave the Stampede Grounds. The Stampede is going to want to have a 18-21k arena at their disposal, (that is an essential part of their long term plans to be a year-round destination and the city is not going to want to operate an arena without the Flames as a tenant. The space, transit connections, parking are already in place. It would be asinine to relocate the Flames away from the Stampede Grounds and I would be dead against it. Look at the satellite image of the grounds, there is certainly enough room north of the usual midway for the Stampede to operate in a reorganized configuration for a couple years.

I'd also like to see something that has a proper street level interface on, not something on it's own surrounding by a sea of parking.
there are several spots in the area that would be suitable for a 18 - 21K arena. and who is to say that the dome wouldn't still be used in some capacity, potentially with the Roughnecks and the Hitmen as the main attractions. it will also be used to other events throughout the year, so it not being a year round destination is asinine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Innersoul1 View Post
I am totally with you on this one. I think that as the years go by there will be less of a focus on the Midway at the Stampede. I feel that the entertainment will diversify, thus the rides and games will become more spread out.

Just a question. On the Stampede ground PDF what is the building that will be going in in the middle of the track? Any ideas?

Oh and might I add that it would be great if the arena had some sort of practice facility (ice included) where the Flames could hold practices.
speaking from experience, the Midway at the Stampede is for the teenagers who aren't old enough to get into Nashville North and the other random beer gardens throughout the grounds. they aren't really interested in seeing the paintings and exposition stuff inside the buildings, they really only go in there because they're air conditioned.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 12:11 AM
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So last night I was killing some time while waiting to pick up my wife so I took a closer look at the Greyhound/GSL site. While I agree that it would be a really cool site for a rink and maybe even a stadium I just don't think there is enough room. There needs to be surface parking and/or some sort of parking structure. I think that once you build the arena there just won't be room.

Now I understand that less parking means that more people can take the train but there are two big issues with this. The LRT just isn't comprehensive as a means for everyone in all conrners of the city to get to the game and there are a large chunk of people who drive from out of town and such to the games. With parking also comes revenue and limiting parking limits revenue.

Additionally, as far as pedestrian access goes it is a poor site. Overall, it's disconnect from downtown means that there aren't the restaurants, bars, pubs and clubs to support the arena and the fans.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 1:08 AM
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How about between the Airport and the new Balzac mall?
I'm in!

better yet, build it in Cochrane.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 1:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innersoul1 View Post
So last night I was killing some time while waiting to pick up my wife so I took a closer look at the Greyhound/GSL site. While I agree that it would be a really cool site for a rink and maybe even a stadium I just don't think there is enough room. There needs to be surface parking and/or some sort of parking structure. I think that once you build the arena there just won't be room.

Now I understand that less parking means that more people can take the train but there are two big issues with this. The LRT just isn't comprehensive as a means for everyone in all conrners of the city to get to the game and there are a large chunk of people who drive from out of town and such to the games. With parking also comes revenue and limiting parking limits revenue.

Additionally, as far as pedestrian access goes it is a poor site. Overall, it's disconnect from downtown means that there aren't the restaurants, bars, pubs and clubs to support the arena and the fans.




i personally think that it could be built on that site with surface parking included in both the stadium and arena lots, but also additional parking off to the side where the Chrysler dealer currently sits and next to the Pumphouse Theater location.

however, i do agree that it is a poor location for pedestrian access and it is somewhat disconnected from the restaurants and bars downtown. however, it is not far from 17 Avenue via 14 Street.

additionally, with transit being built to the area, the downtown free fare zone could be extended as far as the site. i know personally when i'm in town to see a game, i'd rather save the $10 it takes to park at the Saddledome, and park at 39 Avenue Park and Ride or near McMahon Stadium and take the C-Train. i also know that a good portion of the crowd thinks the same way.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 7:48 AM
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i know personally when i'm in town to see a game, i'd rather save the $10 it takes to park at the Saddledome, and park at 39 Avenue Park and Ride or near McMahon Stadium and take the C-Train. i also know that a good portion of the crowd thinks the same way.
Put 2 or more people in your car and parking suddenly makes more sense ($2.50 transit fare x4 = $10). Although parking is $12 now in Stampede park, it still is cheaper to drive than transit if you go with 3 or more people.

And carpooling is how responsible people drive, right?
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  #51  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 2:17 PM
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Put 2 or more people in your car and parking suddenly makes more sense ($2.50 transit fare x4 = $10). Although parking is $12 now in Stampede park, it still is cheaper to drive than transit if you go with 3 or more people.

And carpooling is how responsible people drive, right?
You aren't factoring in gas and vehicle wear and tear. You can't equate transit fare to parking fare.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 3:01 PM
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You aren't factoring in gas and vehicle wear and tear. You can't equate transit fare to parking fare.
And you aren't factoring in time and convenience. Gas for me from the extreme NW of Calgary and back is about $2 on a bad day, and wear and tear? That's what a warranty and a good car is for - ie: I haven't had to put a dime in extra "wear and tear" anything on my cars in years, beyond regular timely maintenance which isn't relevant to driving distance. 3 people in my car is still cheaper than transit, and far more convenient with fewer drunk assholes pushing me around on the train.

Besides the fact that the person I was responding to SPECIFICALLY INDICATED HE WAS ALREADY DRIVING MOST OF THE DISTANCE.

Wow, this old chestnut just won't die. Driving is always stupid and transit is always awesome, yeah, we've heard it before.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 3:53 PM
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Besides the fact that the person I was responding to SPECIFICALLY INDICATED HE WAS ALREADY DRIVING MOST OF THE DISTANCE.

Wow, this old chestnut just won't die. Driving is always stupid and transit is always awesome, yeah, we've heard it before.
I had this exact same conversation last night on the way back from the game (on the train to my car downtown, ironically).

Even if you throw in a couple of bucks for gas, a few cents for tire wear, miscellaneous wear and tear, etc. etc. the difference is pretty nominal if there's two of you. If you're on your own, definitely more cost effective. Three of you or more? Driving looks pretty appealing, especially if using the train would require driving to a park n' ride anyway.

I realize that there are all sorts of other variables on both sides of the equation (waiting to get out of Victoria Park, waiting on the platform for a train, etc.), but at the end of the day the average user is going to look at how much time each option will take, and how much it is going to cost.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 4:33 PM
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I had this exact same conversation last night on the way back from the game (on the train to my car downtown, ironically).

Even if you throw in a couple of bucks for gas, a few cents for tire wear, miscellaneous wear and tear, etc. etc. the difference is pretty nominal if there's two of you. If you're on your own, definitely more cost effective. Three of you or more? Driving looks pretty appealing, especially if using the train would require driving to a park n' ride anyway.

I realize that there are all sorts of other variables on both sides of the equation (waiting to get out of Victoria Park, waiting on the platform for a train, etc.), but at the end of the day the average user is going to look at how much time each option will take, and how much it is going to cost.
Or you could park at one of the lots west of the dome in the 17th Macleod area... Pay $10, walk straight out, get in and drive straight away. I've never understood why anyone would park on the grounds (or even in the Saddledome parkade VIP crap) when the wait to get out is so horrendous.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 5:13 PM
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Or you could park at one of the lots west of the dome in the 17th Macleod area... Pay $10, walk straight out, get in and drive straight away. I've never understood why anyone would park on the grounds (or even in the Saddledome parkade VIP crap) when the wait to get out is so horrendous.
Because hockey season takes place in the winter, and walking 10-15 minutes in -25 isn't most people's idea of fun just to save $2.

Obviously it's not usually that cold but for me I like to make a night of it, which generally involves visiting the Casino or one of the various things close to the Stampede grounds (restaurant/pub/etc). I've never waited for traffic after a Flames game, but that's because I don't try to flee right after the game along with most people.

Now that the Casino is on the north side, it's fantastic - that parking is almost never full, and getting out is a breeze as it's right on the very edge of traffic. The parking by the Big 4 building or the parkade? I totally agree with you. You can sit for half an hour in your car easily.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 6:55 PM
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And you aren't factoring in time and convenience. Gas for me from the extreme NW of Calgary and back is about $2 on a bad day, and wear and tear? That's what a warranty and a good car is for - ie: I haven't had to put a dime in extra "wear and tear" anything on my cars in years, beyond regular timely maintenance which isn't relevant to driving distance. 3 people in my car is still cheaper than transit, and far more convenient with fewer drunk assholes pushing me around on the train.

Besides the fact that the person I was responding to SPECIFICALLY INDICATED HE WAS ALREADY DRIVING MOST OF THE DISTANCE.

Wow, this old chestnut just won't die. Driving is always stupid and transit is always awesome, yeah, we've heard it before.
i have to agree, the factor of gas and vehicle wear and tear is a non-factor. 9/10 times i'm in town i'm driving a rental, so i don't care about the wear and tear or the fuel prices. carpooling to the games saves on parking costs, but i'd still rather fight the crowds walking and on the sardine can C-Train than in a vehicle.

which parking lot i use depends on where i am staying in the city. if i stay at my mom's in Montgomery, i park near McMahon (the upper deck lot of that little strip mall is wonderful, and still free!! one of the hidden gems in Calgary) if i stay at my ex's in Haysboro, i park at 39 Avenue (sometimes even Chinook Mall). if i stay at a hotel downtown, i usually walk. but thats my situation, and everyone else is unique.

parking does generate revenue, i agree with that. however, i disagree that there needs to be a tonne of surface parking when you can build parking structures and have the same amount of parking on 3 or 4 levels as you can on one.
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  #57  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 4:27 PM
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More talk of this today at The Herald: http://www.calgaryherald.com/Sports/...917/story.html
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  #58  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 5:31 PM
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Bringing this over from the construction thread...

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Would it be possible to have the LRT tracks buried all the way from where they come out from cemetery hill to where they go under 12th ave? Might as well do the whole thing, no?
Thats one possibility, and likely the best way to do it but it will be expensive. It would be almost the same length as the downtown subway (14 blocks roughly, though it is against the shorter side of the blocks). Not to mention that it would also require going under the Elbow, which would likely force them to bore a part of the tunnel. And kyle pointed out a good point with the crossing at 26th that would probably be a show stopper.

Even if they just stick underground from 12th and come back above before the river it could still be north of $100M for the stretch based on common costs for similar projects. Depending on the depth of the station it should fit, we've estimated in the past that there needs to be about 100m from the portal entrance to get to grade, so if the new portal was at the south edge of the Big 4 it should fit with a 4 (or 5) LRV platform pretty much where the Big 4 is currently.
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  #59  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 5:41 PM
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I wish that would have been done from the get go, would really improve traffic flow at Macleod and 25th Ave as that can be a tough intersection with all the train traffic.

I understand the cost would be great, what about the idea of making a single station instead of both Stampede and Erlton, with maybe some underground walk ways or something like that to connect all the venues and areas.
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  #60  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 6:50 PM
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I wish that would have been done from the get go, would really improve traffic flow at Macleod and 25th Ave as that can be a tough intersection with all the train traffic.

I understand the cost would be great, what about the idea of making a single station instead of both Stampede and Erlton, with maybe some underground walk ways or something like that to connect all the venues and areas.
I believe there is a plan to combine the two stations. It won't be underground though.
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