New Downtown Calgary Arena

[Innersoul1]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I think anchoring the two in a new TOD would be a fantastic idea and would work. There might be other structures in the vicinity that could make sense for redevelopment. Barlow would also get reinvigorated, and it has developed 'some' over the last decades. It is also reasonable access to the airport and a good number of hotel rooms. The project should be larger, though. Maxbell would be across the way, and it is just down the road from the very nicely developing International Avenue (Barlow South becomes 17th Ave). Views would be fantastic.

McMahon's current location could have both also, especially if you include the field off to the South as part of the redevelopment plan. Remember that motel village is being re-done, and maybe they can repatriate the stadium nissan location for something. Am I mistaken of is foothills athletic park also being re-developed? Certainly that train station needs some more work.

Originally Posted by suburbia

'Motel Village' is being re-developed as a TOD. Additionally, even as is (which is pretty sad) there are more hotel rooms than you have around the Stampede area.

Motel rooms aside there aren't service around McMahon to support a huge stadium complex, nor is there room to develop. McMahon already suffers from NIMBYism from the communities surrounding it. Add the influx of traffic from the arena and special events and those folks are going to be right PISSED!

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by Joborule

McMahon was built quite a while back and is a shared facility with the university team. Nowdays it would be best to make professional sporting venues in the heart of the city for numerous reasons; mostly for it's accessible central location from all quadrants and surrounding business/activities. Better being in a large area commercial being city centre rather than a small commercial space like Motel Village.

Just as long as the facility is a kept active when not in use. Stadiums and sport complexes can destroy the live-ability of a downtown if not done correctly. Luckily, there is a push for more urban designs with these new facilities as we learn from the past.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by suburbia

'Motel Village' is being re-developed as a TOD. Additionally, even as is (which is pretty sad) there are more hotel rooms than you have around the Stampede area.

True that if you really want to do a massive renovation of the Motel Village/McMahon area, you have plenty to work with (aside from NIMBYism as acknowledged a couple posts up).

I just think in comparison of having a stadium somewhere, it's better to put it in a downtown area that already has tons of activity within and surrounding it; which will only increase with future development of the East Village, Stampede Trail, and possibly Inglewood. A more residential/academic focused area shouldn't be a preference over downtown.

It would be nice to have Olympic Way/Stampede Trail, Stephen Avenue, and 17th Ave busy before and after big Flames/Stamps games. Assuming both facilities are on or right around Stampede Grounds, the pedestrian traffic coming from those venues would have direct access to the best downtown has to offer. Motel Village or a redeveloped Firepark wouldn't match the pre/post game festivities city centre can offer.

Originally Posted by kw5150

Just as long as the facility is a kept active when not in use. Stadiums and sport complexes can destroy the live-ability of a downtown if not done correctly. Luckily, there is a push for more urban designs with these new facilities as we learn from the past.

Which is why I think Flames are keying in on bringing a MLS team to be a tenant for a new stadium if it gets built. Makes no sense to spend so much dough to build a new venue only the Stamps call home, which would only be used 9-12(?) times a year. Might as well just major reno McMahon only. MLS would give the facility some action during the winter/spring while football isn't ongoing.

[jeffwhit]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Which is why I think Flames are keying in on bringing a MLS team to be a tenant for a new stadium if it gets built. Makes no sense to spend so much dough to build a new venue only the Stamps call home, which would only be used 9-12(?) times a year. Might as well just major reno McMahon only. MLS would give the facility some action during the winter/spring while football isn't ongoing.

The MLS is never coming to Calgary, they expanded into markets where support for the pyramind league teams was huge. When Calgary had an A-League team the crowd was in the dozens (I was among them). MLS isn't coming to Calgary just because there is a new CFL stadium- if the Flames want an MLS team they've got to play the long game and get people to come out to a lesser-league team.

[monocle]

Originally Posted by jeffwhit

The MLS is never coming to Calgary, they expanded into markets where support for the pyramind league teams was huge. When Calgary had an A-League team the crowd was in the dozens (I was among them). MLS isn't coming to Calgary just because there is a new CFL stadium- if the Flames want an MLS team they've got to play the long game and get people to come out to a lesser-league team.

You are moat likely right. However, there are a lot of rec league soccer players in this town, many who came from "football countries".
Possibly a team in a lower professional league could gauge support? Is there "minor leagues" to MLS?

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by jeffwhit

The MLS is never coming to Calgary, they expanded into markets where support for the pyramind league teams was huge. When Calgary had an A-League team the crowd was in the dozens (I was among them). MLS isn't coming to Calgary just because there is a new CFL stadium- if the Flames want an MLS team they've got to play the long game and get people to come out to a lesser-league team.

This bit was discussed over at CalgaryPuck but it was considered that Calgary is a city that will only support major league teams rather than lesser league. From a lot I know their seems to be moderate interest in the game of soccer in this city. Not enough that are hardcore to watch the teams that have tried and failed recently. But if an actual legit soccer league was in Calgary, possible that there would be enough fans that would come out to support it.

Flames and Stamps get obvious support, but Roughnecks aren't doing too bad either.

Granted this is something I have very little knowledge about so it could be a complete bust and MLS wouldn't even bother.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by jeffwhit

The MLS is never coming to Calgary

Never is a long time.

[jeffwhit]

Originally Posted by Joborule

This bit was discussed over at CalgaryPuck but it was considered that Calgary is a city that will only support major league teams rather than lesser league. From a lot I know their seems to be moderate interest in the game of soccer in this city. Not enough that are hardcore to watch the teams that have tried and failed recently. But if an actual legit soccer league was in Calgary, possible that there would be enough fans that would come out to support it.

I think this hits the nail on the head regarding the catch 22 of bringing an MLS team to Calgary. Calgarians won't support minor league sports (alledgedly, and I'm not sure where the Hitmen fall into this scenario) but MLS won't come to markets where minor league soccer isn't supported.

Never is a long time, but if the Flames ownership made a presentation to the public saying they have a 5-10 year plan to bring the MLS to Calgary and gets a pyramid league team- and builds a modular soccer stadium, which would cost next to nothing and could actually grow with the support for the team, then it could happen.

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by jeffwhit

The MLS is never coming to Calgary, they expanded into markets where support for the pyramind league teams was huge. When Calgary had an A-League team the crowd was in the dozens (I was among them). MLS isn't coming to Calgary just because there is a new CFL stadium- if the Flames want an MLS team they've got to play the long game and get people to come out to a lesser-league team.

This is saddening as minor soccer here is huge. Even the mens league has dozens of teams. However the soccer teams we have had, especially the last had pretty poor facilities to play in.. Foothills stadium really? It was a few bleachers with some port a potties.. If we had a decent stadium and a little more hype I think we could make a go of it. MLS would likely do well here.

[Innersoul1]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Which is why I think Flames are keying in on bringing a MLS team to be a tenant for a new stadium if it gets built. Makes no sense to spend so much dough to build a new venue only the Stamps call home, which would only be used 9-12(?) times a year. Might as well just major reno McMahon only. MLS would give the facility some action during the winter/spring while football isn't ongoing.

I have spent a lifetime playing soccer and loving the game and I must admit that the notion of the MLS in Calgary is a pipe dream...for now. The Flames as an organization make some odd decisions but i don't think that they are foolish enough to believe at this time that the MLS would be a successful endeavor in Canada. First and foremost, the MLS as an organization has more markets that they wish to expand into in the US before they would even look at fourth expansion team in Canada. From their perspective they have achieved their goal of expanding into the 3 markets in Canada that have successfully supported professional soccer programs.

Originally Posted by jeffwhit

The MLS is never coming to Calgary, they expanded into markets where support for the pyramind league teams was huge. When Calgary had an A-League team the crowd was in the dozens (I was among them). MLS isn't coming to Calgary just because there is a new CFL stadium- if the Flames want an MLS team they've got to play the long game and get people to come out to a lesser-league team.

Calgary's lack of support for previous soccer franchises really isn't going to win us any points in the bid to get an MLS franchise. Moreover, one of the major focuses of the MLS is to have their teams play in soccer specific stadiums (SSS). The exceptions to that rule are Vancouver soley because they have made stadium modifications to make the space more intimate and that they have numbers to support the team and fill the space and Seattle who regularly sell out Century Link Field to the tune of 36,0000. Calgary might potentially have a stadium for the team to play in but that by no means guarantees that we will get a team or are worthy of a team.

Originally Posted by Joborule

This bit was discussed over at CalgaryPuck but it was considered that Calgary is a city that will only support major league teams rather than lesser league. From a lot I know their seems to be moderate interest in the game of soccer in this city. Not enough that are hardcore to watch the teams that have tried and failed recently. But if an actual legit soccer league was in Calgary, possible that there would be enough fans that would come out to support it.

Granted this is something I have very little knowledge about so it could be a complete bust and MLS wouldn't even bother.

I am born and raised in Calgary and I love this city with all of my heart. But I must say that fans of our sports teams are often very fickle. We would be doing a disservice to our city by jumping straight to and MLS franchise (which wouldn't happen anyway). We need to develop the game here and see if there really is a taste for the game here. By doing so with something like an A-League franchise ticket prices would be accessible to most families. I would say that baby steps are the way to go with this one.

[Tropics]

I would be shocked if Calgary actually supported a MLS franchise. They would get very little fan support.

We are not quite big enough yet but I think in the future Calgary might actually manage to get a Major League Baseball team and they would probably support that and get alot of support from surrounding communities and rural areas where softball is huge, way bigger then soccer in this country. Next to hockey I would guess that baseball/softball is the major team sport with the most participation in Calgary and area. Football might be close but the CFL has blocked any real chance of a NFL team coming to this city, the fact the NFL have not even moved into the Toronto market yet is quite amazing.

[RiverRat]

Here's some wild speculation:

- The arena goes into the East Village. This could either be a more compact urban arena in one of the "commercial" blocks in the village (around 8 ave NE ?), or could be built just south of the tracks near 11th Ave SE.

- The new building will be mixed-use and will contain other commercial and public-use facilities.

- The Saddledome is demolished. In its place a new outdoor arena is constructued for use by the CFL, the Stampede, and for outdoor concerts and other shows.

[eggbert]

Originally Posted by Tropics

I would be shocked if Calgary actually supported a MLS franchise. They would get very little fan support.

We are not quite big enough yet but I think in the future Calgary might actually manage to get a Major League Baseball team and they would probably support that and get alot of support from surrounding communities and rural areas where softball is huge, way bigger then soccer in this country. Next to hockey I would guess that baseball/softball is the major team sport with the most participation in Calgary and area. Football might be close but the CFL has blocked any real chance of a NFL team coming to this city, the fact the NFL have not even moved into the Toronto market yet is quite amazing.

Isn't soccer the most played amateur sport in Canada, even ahead of hockey? I might be wrong with that but it's way more popular than baseball and softball combined. While I don't think MLS will be coming here anytime soon it has a way better chance than baseball or football. Have you ever been to a Calgary Viper's game? There's nobody there! In fact, I'd bet that we will never see MLB in Calgary.

[nick.flood]

Sport Participation in Canada, 2005
Statistics Canada

Active Participation over age 15.
In 1998, baseball was in the top three in popularity, with more than 1.3 million
participating nationwide. By 2005, it had dropped to sixth place, almost switching
places with soccer which was in seventh place in 1998. Soccer ranked fourth overall
in 2005. Among the top ten sports, soccer is the only sport that showed an increase
(one percentage point) in the participation rate between 1998 and 2005.

Baseball: 2005 7.1%
Soccer: 2005 9.7%

Active Participation ages 4-15.
Canadian children play a lot of soccer
Soccer has become the sport of choice for Canadian boys and girls 5 to 14 years
old. It has ranked as the number one sport activity for active children for many
years. In 1998 soccer led all sports practiced by children, and this ranking continued,
reaching 44% participation in 2005. The rate of involvement in soccer was the
same for boys and girls despite the fact that overall, boys tend to be more active in
sport than girls.

Baseball: 1998 22.1% 2005 13.6%
Soccer: 1998 32.1% 2005 44.1%

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-595-...008060-eng.pdf

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by nick.flood

Baseball: 1998 22.1% 2005 13.6%
Soccer: 1998 32.1% 2005 44.1%

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-595-...008060-eng.pdf

Baseball's downward spiral doesn't surprise me. It is as interesting as watching grass grow(and then learning it is AstroTurf). In 2011, the Toronto Blue Jays (with a catchment of about 6M?) had an average of 22K attending at the Roger's Centre (Skydome), down from 50K+ in 1993. Of course, half were actually looking for some time away from home to knit.

http://www.yarnharlot.ca/blog/archiv...type_much.html

[UC-LAW]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Baseball's downward spiral doesn't surprise me. It is as interesting as watching grass grow(and then learning it is AstroTurf). In 2011, the Toronto Blue Jays (with a catchment of about 6M?) had an average of 22K attending at the Roger's Centre (Skydome), down from 50K+ in 1993. Of course, half were actually looking for some time away from home to knit.

http://www.yarnharlot.ca/blog/archiv...type_much.html

Is soccer really that much more interesting?

Tough to say how soccer will grow in this country. Alot of kids play it because its cheap and easy for parents to take them. Do they continue to play and watch when they are older as opposed to the big 4? tough to say

[MalcolmTucker]

At lest up to a year ago individual CFL games on tv still had more than 10 times as many people watching as ondividual MLS games.

[cranium]

For the indigenous North American, soccer's appeal will change little. The level that we rely on immigration for growth will inevitably change all that at some point. Soccer's day in this country will come.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by UC-LAW

Is soccer really that much more interesting?

UC-LAW - look at the numbers from nick.flood that I quoted. It showed percentages in 1998 and 2005 for both soccer and baseball, so those numbers answered your question. Do you really think as many people go to soccer games to knit as do to baseball games?

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by UC-LAW

Is soccer really that much more interesting?

Is that a serious question?