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  #1  
Old Posted: Feb 26, 2009, 3:50 PM
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RCMP Incompetence & Cover up

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  #2  
Old Posted: Feb 26, 2009, 3:52 PM
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RCMP in B.C. to speak about late search for Montreal ski couple


The RCMP will hold a press conference Thursday in Golden, B.C., to help explain why it took more than a week to begin a search for a Montreal couple lost in the province's backcountry.

Marie-Josee Fortin, 44, died before help arrived.

Her husband, Gilles Blackburn, 51, was treated for frostbite and exposure and released from hospital Wednesday, just 24 hours after flagging down a helicopter that rescued him.

The two went missing while skiing out of bounds in the Rockies on Feb. 15. They had only two granola bars with them.

The search for them didn't start until Tuesday — nine days after they disappeared despite sightings of at least three SOS signs they scratched into the snow as early as Feb. 17.

An autopsy will be performed on Fortin's body Friday.
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  #3  
Old Posted: Feb 26, 2009, 4:25 PM
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I can't imagine spending 10 days in freezing cold weather like that...it is a miracle that even one of them survived. But yeah, incompetence is putting it lightly.
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  #4  
Old Posted: Feb 26, 2009, 4:46 PM
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Hmmm, don't be so quick to judge.

First off, what were they doing out of bounds?? Secondly, they obviously did not plan to go out of bounds since they did not register with anyone about that.

As someone involved in SAR, while I am aghast at the SOS's being ignored, I have also been out on "hunts" because some shit head kids set up an SOS just to see what would happen. It is very expensive and dangerous to go out looking for something without knowing what you are looking for.

While it is likely that something fell apart in the system, the truth is that in the backcountry YOU are the primary resource responsible for your own health and safety. Yes setting up an SOS should bring help, but only if they are looking for you. Too many people in the SAR community have been hurt on wild goose chases.

Let's wait until more details come out ... none the less, I can't imgaine what that man went through being with his wife while she died.

BTW, the RCMP are not really to blame on this since they rarely do the SAR work themselves especially without reason.
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Old Posted: Feb 26, 2009, 4:50 PM
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BTW, rrskylar, where is the cover up?? This is in all the national news!!
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  #6  
Old Posted: Feb 26, 2009, 5:01 PM
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/\Good points. I suppose obviously there are factors those of us who don't do SAR would not be aware of.
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  #7  
Old Posted: Feb 26, 2009, 5:04 PM
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Yeah I have never heard of RCMP doing search and rescue.... but maybe things operate differently in the Rockies?
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  #8  
Old Posted: Feb 26, 2009, 5:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shreddog View Post
Hmmm, don't be so quick to judge.

First off, what were they doing out of bounds?? Secondly, they obviously did not plan to go out of bounds since they did not register with anyone about that.

As someone involved in SAR, while I am aghast at the SOS's being ignored, I have also been out on "hunts" because some shit head kids set up an SOS just to see what would happen. It is very expensive and dangerous to go out looking for something without knowing what you are looking for.

While it is likely that something fell apart in the system, the truth is that in the backcountry YOU are the primary resource responsible for your own health and safety. Yes setting up an SOS should bring help, but only if they are looking for you. Too many people in the SAR community have been hurt on wild goose chases.

Let's wait until more details come out ... none the less, I can't imgaine what that man went through being with his wife while she died.

BTW, the RCMP are not really to blame on this since they rarely do the SAR work themselves especially without reason.
I can somewhat sympathize with that reasoning; however, I cannot comprehend why there was no response after more SOS signals were spotted? Surely they must have suspected something was up by that point. Honestly, can someone shed any light on what may have been going through the heads of the police officers after the 5th sighting? I simply cannot understand it.

It's not immediately clear to me who is responsible for what, but I the SAR from Golden seemed to indicate that they couldn't launch a search unless the RCMP instructed them to. I'm not sure how true that is, but that is what I have heard.
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  #9  
Old Posted: Feb 26, 2009, 6:58 PM
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It is a bizarre... There's a GIANT SOS signal, and they spot it, but decide... nah, we're not going to investigate. What, did they think some kids were just having fun? It's weird.
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  #10  
Old Posted: Feb 26, 2009, 7:52 PM
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Quote:
RCMP admit failure to search for missing skiers was mistake

Teenage children in mourning back at family home in Montreal

The RCMP said Thursday that failing to start a search for a couple lost for 10 days in the mountains near a B.C. ski resort was a mistake.

"There was an error on behalf of the RCMP in not initiating a call out on Feb. 21," said Cpl. Dan Moskaluk on Thursday morning in Golden, B.C.

The couple went missing while skiing out of bounds in the Rockies on Feb. 15.

The search for them didn't start until Tuesday — nine days after they disappeared despite sightings of at least three SOS signs scratched into the snow on Feb. 17, and again on Feb. 21, when the RCMP were first informed.

Marie-Josee Fortin, 44, died before help arrived on Feb 23. Her husband, Gilles Blackburn, 51, was treated for frostbite and exposure and released from hospital Wednesday, just 24 hours after flagging down the helicopter that rescued him.

The RCMP said an internal investigation would be conducted into why the search was not initiated.

"In similar instances we do call out a search. In this instance we did not," said Molskaluk.

An autopsy will be performed on Fortin's body Friday.

Police track couple's whereabouts

On Wednesday afternoon, police did release more details about the couple's whereabouts prior to their getting lost.

Police said that their preliminary investigation suggests the couple rented a vehicle in Calgary and were planning to travel to Banff, Golden and Revelstoke on a skiing holiday.

The first night they stayed in Lake Louise. They then drove to the Mountaineer Lodge near Golden at the Kicking Horse Resort, where they spent the night of Feb. 14, police said in statement issued Wednesday afternoon.

The couple then checked out of the Mountaineer Lodge on Feb. 15 and went skiing at the resort. Sometime that day they went out of bounds and got lost, said police.

They had left their belongings in their rented vehicle, which was parked in an underground parkade at the Mountaineer Lodge at the resort, police said.

Decision not to search disputed

The RCMP released as statement on Wednesday afternoon with details about why there had been no search.

On Feb. 17 a local heli-skiing company received a call from an off-duty ski guide touring the area who had spotted an SOS sign and strange tracks west of the Kicking Horse Resort, the statement said.

The Kicking Horse Resort was contacted to check if they had any reports of missing skiers. It appears at this time that the Provincial Emergency Preparedness and the local RCMP detachment were not contacted, said police.

Then again on Feb. 21 a group returning from a ski trip saw two more SOS signs and notified the heli-skiing company who in turn reported it to the Golden RCMP, said police.

The Kicking Horse Resort was contacted and they advised that they had previously investigated this incident with no result, said police.

Police have said previously that the Golden search and rescue team then decided not to conduct a ground search of the area.

But the search and rescue team has disputed that fact, saying that only the RCMP can authorize a search for a missing person.

Family was active, say Montreal neighbours

Meanwhile in Montreal, the couple's 19-year-old son and 17-year-old daughter were secluded with their grandmother at the family home on a quiet street in LaSalle on Wednesday.

The curtains were drawn on their home and Gilles Blackburn's work truck, used for his contracting business, sat outside the family duplex.

The children talked to their father after he was rescued, according to police.

Neighbours described the family as very sporty, always heading off somewhere with their skis or their mountain bikes.

Neighbour Louise Cedilot said the daughter came over to borrow something a few days ago and mentioned the parents were on vacation and that she and her brother thought it was strange they hadn't heard from them.

Montreal police say the children reported the couple missing when the two failed to return from their ski trip on Feb. 23.

Cedilot said Fortin, a former nurse, used to come over to help her with her cancer injections. Now she can hardly believe what's befallen the couple.

"It's unreal," said Cedilot. "She was so young. She was beautiful."

Cedilot's husband Michel said: "It's terrible. They're the best neighbours you could have."

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/st...26/rescue.html
There you have it.
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  #11  
Old Posted: Feb 27, 2009, 6:29 AM
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B.C. considers fining out-of-bounds skiers

BY JONATHAN FOWLIE, VANCOUVER SUN
JANUARY 6, 2009

VICTORIA — British Columbia is considering imposing fines or other penalties on skiers and snowboarders who deliberately go into areas declared dangerous or out of bounds, Solicitor General John van Dongen said Tuesday.

"I'm disturbed by the attitude of some people who think it's totally appropriate for them to defy boundaries that have been very scientifically developed using the best information and the best experience available," van Dongen said.

"I'm disturbed some people take a cavalier attitude and think they can ignore that."

Van Dongen said he will study the issue over the coming weeks to determine if the government can introduce a policy that would make people think twice about breaking the rules, while at the same time not deter those in distress from calling for help.

Some people have suggested that those who are rescued after breaking the rules should be made to pay the full cost of their rescue — a tab that could get expensive given the potential use of helicopters and other equipment.

While van Dongen said he will wait to hear all sides before making a decision, he strongly indicated he was not keen to pursue the direct billing option.

"The concern with that is people may not call if they think their family is going to be faced with a huge bill. That may not be the best public policy," van Dongen said.

Perhaps hinting at the kind of approach he is considering, the minister said he "applauds" local ski operators who have introduced sanctions for those who go out of bounds, such as revoking passes or banning mountain access for life.

Last week, officials at Grouse Mountain, near Vancouver, said they had issued lifetime bans against three skiers and a snowboarder who were seen going out of bounds.

They also said they plan to bill the four for the cost of a search sparked when they were seen leaving marked trails.

As for some skiers' argument that they are experienced enough to break the rules, van Dongen said: "We've seen people with all the experience and all the gear get into trouble.

"Avalanche Centre is comprised of experts — responsible people — and when they say there should be a line drawn somewhere, I think we have to give that a lot of weight."

But he said he had "no preconceived notions" about what conclusions he will reach.

"I'm willing to look at this issue," he said, adding he may determine that it is not practical for the government to get directly involved.
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  #12  
Old Posted: Feb 27, 2009, 12:57 PM
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I totally disagree with out and out banning people from going out-of-bounds because it's not clear what the broader implications of that are. There are a ton of people who go skiing in backcountry locations which aren't strictly out-of-bounds since there is no in-bounds either. Would that also be prohibited? I would think it would be just as dangerous.

In general, crown land should be used as we please. The government can regulate its use, usually as a means to protect it; however, I feel it would be stifling to prohibit access onto crown land. A lot of people participate in dangerous sports, and death is often times one of the consequences. Perhaps the widespread popularity of skiing means that a greater number enter situations for which they are not aware of the consequences; however, as long as they have fully grasped that they could die in the backcountry, either in an avalanche, or due to exposure etc, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to continue on.

Non-participants will scoff, and say that they should just ski on the groomed hills were it's safe, but I'm sure it's not the same. This is akin to the people who scoff at rock climbers and tell them to go climb at the gym while closing off access to crags.
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  #13  
Old Posted: Feb 27, 2009, 3:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shreddog View Post
BTW, rrskylar, where is the cover up?? This is in all the national news!!
Have you been watching the delusional testimony by the RCMP at the Dziekanski inquiry, the story the RCMP keeps telling is repeatedly disputed by video evidence. Whats scary is that the RCMP keeps telling us they would have nothing differently!
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  #14  
Old Posted: Feb 27, 2009, 5:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
Have you been watching the delusional testimony by the RCMP at the Dziekanski inquiry, the story the RCMP keeps telling is repeatedly disputed by video evidence. Whats scary is that the RCMP keeps telling us they would have nothing differently!
Your second post is about the issue at KH mtn in which there was/is no cover up. If your first post was about the Dziekanski inquiry, you did a disservice to yourself and this thread by including an issue where the RCMP are not trying to do a cover up.

That said, if your first post is about Dziekanski (too lazy to check the link) than yes I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU that the RCMP pooched it big time and need to totally change their process wrt how tasers are used. And yes, they should own up to their mistake and beg forgiveness from the mom and society and large.
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Last edited by shreddog; Feb 27, 2009 at 6:35 PM.
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Old Posted: Feb 27, 2009, 5:49 PM
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There was obviously a failure in how the KH rescue was handled, Although it sounds like a lot of bungling, but not a cover up. And I agree that at least some of the responsibility in that case lies on the shoulders of the people who made a choice to stray from the resort boundaries. Having said that, and as a former ski patroller at Silver Star, we never would have let the situation drag on as long as it did. Obviously there was a breakdown in the process.

THe Dziekanski issue is completely different. I have no doubt there was/ is a coverup to try and mask the gross incompetence of the responding officers. This incident is truly disgraceful and irreparably tarnishes the RCMP's image and reputation. THe fact that not one of those cops is being reprimanded or going to jail for that is outrageous and a total miscarriage of justice.
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Old Posted: Feb 27, 2009, 6:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shreddog View Post
Your second post is about the issue at KH mtn in which there was/is no cover up. If your first post was about the Dziekanski inquiry, you did a disservice to yourself and this thread by including an issue where the RCMP are not trying to do a cover up.

That said, if your first post is about Dziekanski (too lazy to check the link) than yes I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU that the RCMP pooched it big time and need to totally change their process wrt how tasers are used. And yes, they should hone up to their mistake and beg forgiveness from the mom and society and large.
It would be better to change the name of the thread to Cover up and Incompetence or I could have changed the order of my posts. Incidentally the post article is no longer available


The brass at the RCMP have got to get a grip and come forward and admit a grave mistake took place or their reputation is going to be greatly tarnished if it isn't already!
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Old Posted: Feb 28, 2009, 4:10 AM
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Your thread is biased but I agree that there are major flaws in how the RCMP goes about its business that need to be fixed.
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  #18  
Old Posted: Mar 3, 2009, 2:20 AM
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Third Liar takes stand:


Dziekanski video showed reality you won't hear from Mounties


GARY MASON

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

March 2, 2009 at 8:10 PM EST

VANCOUVER — It wasn't the first time the RCMP officer who tasered Robert Dziekanski had watched video of the incident. But this time, Constable Kwesi Millington had to watch it while reconciling the visual evidence with the statements he made immediately after the incident.

Constable Millington took the stand yesterday at the inquiry into Mr. Dziekanski's death at Vancouver International Airport in the early morning hours of Oct. 14, 2007. It was not pretty. Consistently, information he supplied to an RCMP investigating officer shortly after the incident was contradicted by the now-infamous video.

After nearly a week of testimony from three of the four Mounties involved in the confrontation that day, it is clear that if it were not for that video, the version of events supplied by the officers wouldn't have come close to what actually happened.

Draw your own conclusions why.

On the stand at the inquiry that former B.C. Supreme Court justice Thomas Braidwood is holding into Mr. Dziekanski's death, Constable Millington said the 40-year-old Polish immigrant was obviously agitated when the officers caught up with him. Yet the video of the encounter showed Mr. Dziekanski was anything but agitated and was standing there quite calmly but obviously confused. Why wouldn't he be, given he couldn't understand a word the officers were saying?

At one point, Mr. Dziekanski put his hands in the air and started walking away. He grabbed a stapler from a counter. According to Constable Millington's statement given at the local detachment a few hours later, and another statement given the following day, Mr. Dziekanski “raised [the stapler] in the air” and assumed a “combative stance” before stepping toward the officers in a “threatening manner.”

But that wasn't true at all. First, it's clear from the video that Mr. Dziekanski never raised the stapler above the level of his belt, or just slightly above, and if he stepped in the direction of the officers, it was a barely perceptible baby step. But this was enough to compel Constable Millington to take out his taser and pump Mr. Dziekanski with 50,000 volts.

I have seen the video of the tasering maybe a hundred times now and it never ceases to shock me. It did again yesterday. The worst part is right after Mr. Dziekanski is tasered for the first time, sending him reeling backward, holding his stomach, like someone who has just been shot. As he staggered backward, he fell on his backside and his legs shot up in the air.

The sight of him on the ground, screaming and writhing in pain, his arms holding his chest, is a terrible thing to watch. It is at this point, unbelievably, that Constable Millington gave the man a second blast from his taser.

So why, with Mr. Dziekanski on the ground, clearly in pain, did the officer taser him again? Just one second after the first hit?

In his original statement, Constable Millington said it was because Mr. Dziekanski hadn't gone down after the first discharge. But he clearly had.

“I was wrong about that,” Constable Millington said on the stand.

He also said in his statement that his fellow officers had to wrestle Mr. Dziekanski to the ground because he wouldn't fall.

“I was wrong,” the officer had to admit again.

Still, Constable Millington defended the second shot because he felt Mr. Dziekanski wasn't completely immobilized and was still “moving and struggling.” Yes, struggling for his life as it would turn out.

It got worse.

After Mr. Dziekanski was on the ground, with three officers on top of him, one with a knee in his back, Constable Millington fired the taser a third time. This time, because the “male was still resisting the officers.” That's right, three RCMP officers, all close to six feet and collectively weighing nearly 600 pounds, couldn't subdue someone the Mounties estimated to be 5'9” and weigh 180.

But Constable Millington wasn't finished.

He said he thought his taser wasn't working properly because it was making a “clacking sound” so he took out the cartridge and put the weapon in push-stun mode, which is when the taser is applied directly to a person's body, causing severe pain.

This, Constable Millington did two times even though he told the RCMP officer who took his statement that he had applied the taser in push-stun mode only once. Another fact refuted by the video evidence. By lunch break, I counted at least six statements that Constable Millington made immediately after the incident that ended up being contradicted by the video.

But Constable Millington did do one thing right.

When Mr. Dziekanski started turning blue, he suggested his fellow officers turn him over on his back, into what police call “recovery position.”

By then it was too late.
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  #19  
Old Posted: Mar 3, 2009, 2:33 AM
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Fucking wild these RCMP meatheads. I saw the report on TV and then read this article. How can these people be so venal and live with it, never mind not be arrested?


If there's one thing we can all learn from this sad story is:


NEVER trust what the police says
if the police says one thing, QUESTION it
if the police comes walks near you, run for you're fucking life
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  #20  
Old Posted: Mar 3, 2009, 4:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Star
Taser used 4 times after Dziekanski fell, probe told
Mar 02, 2009 09:00 PM
James Keller
THE CANADIAN PRESS

VANCOUVER–As Robert Dziekanski lay screaming and writhing on the floor of Vancouver's airport after being jolted by a Taser, the officer triggering the device felt the man was being combative and stunned him several more times.

Const. Kwesi Millington told a public inquiry Monday he delivered the first shock of the 50,000-volt weapon because Dziekanski had picked up a stapler and he believed the man was about to attack.

But the Taser was used four more times after Dziekanski had already fallen to the ground.

"The person that it's applied against is supposed to fall immediately and it's supposed to immobilize them," said Millington in his first public account of the day Dziekanski died.

"It did not have that effect so I felt it was necessary to fire it again."

After the four officers first approached Dziekanski, he turned toward the officers holding a stapler.

"He was in a combative stance, as we call it, and was approaching the officers I believe with the intent to attack," said Millington.

At one point, inquiry lawyer Art Vertlieb handed Millington the black office stapler recovered from the scene and asked him to demonstrate what the man was doing with it.

The officer stood up in the witness box and held the stapler in his right hand near his chest, with his other hand in a fist.

Vertlieb noted all four officers, who were standing several metres away, were each wearing a bullet-proof vest and carrying a gun, pepper spray and a baton.

"Given all the four officers and the tools and the distance, that's what scared you?" Vertlieb said, referring to the stapler.

"That's what made me fear for the officers' safety," replied Millington.

The first shock, in a mode that fires two probes at a subject, came without warning and lasted six seconds as Dziekanski screamed and stumbled to the ground.

One second passed before the Millington shocked him again.

Millington said Dziekanski was still struggling, although when the second stun began, he was already on the floor and the other officers hadn't yet approached to restrain him.

He said his superior officer ordered him to use the Taser again, so Millington used the device a third time, but it made a ``clacking" noise and he believed it didn't have any effect.

He said the other officers were still trying to get Dziekanski's hands behind his back, so he switched the device to "push-stun mode," where the Taser is held directly against a person's body, and stunned him again.

"Did it occur to you that his movements on the ground, his moving around, was a response to pain and not an attempt to be resistant?" asked Vertlieb.

"After the first one, when he fell to the ground, I interpreted that to be he didn't feel the full effects," replied Millington.

The Taser's internal computer indicates it was used one more time, although Millington couldn't remember a fifth stun.

Millington's testimony varied from what he told homicide investigators investigating Dziekanski's death.

He told investigators in October 2007 that Dziekanski was yelling with the stapler held high before he was stunned.

The officer also said Dziekanski was standing for the first three jolts, and that officers had to wrestle him to the ground.


After watching a bystander's video, Millington agreed Dziekanski might not have been yelling, but he insisted the man raised the stapler out of view of the camera.

He conceded that Dziekanski was only standing for the first stun, and fell to the ground on his own.

A form that Millington was required to fill out because he deployed a Taser also included numerous errors, the inquiry heard.

Millington wrote that Dziekanski was swinging the stapler ``wildly" at the officers, but conceded in his testimony that didn't happen.

"That's what my notes said and my statement," said Millington, without offering an explanation for the discrepancies.

Officers are supposed to warn people before they are stunned with the phrase: "Stop or you'll be hit with 50,000 volts of electricity."

Millington, who repeatedly referred to his training, didn't say anything before using the weapon.

The officer also said he was trained that multiple stuns could be ``hazardous" and should be avoided unless necessary, although he couldn't remember why more than one stun might be a bad idea.

Yet looking back, Millington said he wouldn't have done anything differently.

"We acted in accordance to our training," he said. "Of course I never intended this result. I never intended for Mr. Dziekanski to pass away."


Crown prosecutors decided last year not to charge the officers, saying the use of force was justified in the circumstances, but the inquiry commissioner could make findings of misconduct against the officers or anyone else involved.
I'm speechless.
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