ATLANTA | Construction Thread V - Page 104

BlueSangha · #**2061** Posted: **Jan 7, 2010, 10:46 PM**

Say Goodbye to 50 Allen Plaza

http://www.ajc.com/business/lender-m...se-269575.html

gttx · #**2062** Posted: **Jan 7, 2010, 10:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueSangha

Say Goodbye to 50 Allen Plaza

http://www.ajc.com/business/lender-m...se-269575.html

Well that sucks.

A-town · #**2063** Posted: **Jan 7, 2010, 11:20 PM**

They said commercial real estate was next...

cybele · #**2064** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 1:53 AM**

Well you have to wonder if any TAD money gets gobbled up in foreclosures like this? Say some TAD issues $100 million in bonds and gives the money to developers but the building doesn't get built and then they default. It seems like the taxpayers would wind up holding the bag to pay off the bonds and the interest. But maybe somebody else pays them off, I don't know?

pdpmishap · #**2065** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 2:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrick84

Regarding Novare and the Atlantic... I wonder at what point they will decide to go apartment with that building? Seems like the wisest move in this market. Keep your lease terms short (6mo-1yr) and if the condo market significantly recovers in Atlanta in the next decade re-open the discussion for that building to be condo.
With the reputation Atlantic Station continues to herald and the economy, it is no surprise those places aren't moving (not to mention they seem severely over-priced).

Given the Corus Bank which wrote the loan already collapsed, the assets are actually now owned by Starwood Capital which built Starwood Hotels (Westin, W, Sheraton, etc). They are privately held and can likely hold out for any kind of recovery given how cheaply they got the assets. They also got the Brookwood which is also just as empty. They aren't really known for running apartments but I'm guessing they're running the numbers. I think the problem w/ The Atlantic and the Brookwood is the units are too large to be affordable apartments given there are plenty of apartments in more reasonable sizes. If I recall correctly, the Atlantic's smallest unit is 1,300 sq ft and they have 400 units that are that size or bigger. Also don't forget ATL has some of the highest apt vacancy in the nation.

The issue w/ Atlantic Station isn't necessarily the race of the people that live there. I think the far bigger problem of the area is the sheer number of condos bought during the boom. Units in the adjacent Twelve Atlantic Station were bought in '05 for 250k (600+sqft 1bdr) and sold in '06-'07 for 350k. Many of these were speculators and took on untenable mortgages so you have foreclosures and some going as cheaply as $132/sqft. Novare targeted $380/sqft for the Atlantic so you get an idea how far off things are there.

I just took a look at Zillow and 2323 there just sold at 325k after selling in '06 at 613k. Clearly this unit went through foreclosure or the owner just likes giving away 300k of their money. If someone was willing to pay that kind of money for a non-penthouse level, they were either mighty sure or playing w/ a banks money.

Zanarkand A East · #**2066** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 3:21 AM**

I don't have any pictures, but does anyone know what is being built on 16th Street, immediately south of Atlantic Station and next to the connector? It appears to be a two-story structure, so I'm guessing it's some sort of retail?

Any news?

sunking1056 · #**2067** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 3:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East

I don't have any pictures, but does anyone know what is being built on 16th Street, immediately south of Atlantic Station and next to the connector? It appears to be a two-story structure, so I'm guessing it's some sort of retail?

Any news?

I believe it is a new fire station

Zanarkand A East · #**2068** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 3:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunking1056

I believe it is a new fire station

Thanks for the reply.

My condolences to the townhouse residents across the street

Unless of course there's a fire in that neighborhood, heaven forbid.

briantech · #**2069** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 4:39 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by atl2phx

spoken like michael scott @ dunder mifflin. a load crap.

what are the AS enthusiast demo's?
what are the potential demo profiles?

WTF?

Aren't the demographics for all these highrise modern condo buildings basically the same?

Young, college educated, white collar professionals with no kids who want to live in the city.

I think you'd be hardpressed to find a specific building garnering any demographic other than that.

atl2phx · #**2070** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 5:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by briantech

Aren't the demographics for all these highrise modern condo buildings basically the same?

Young, college educated, white collar professionals with no kids who want to live in the city.

I think you'd be hardpressed to find a specific building garnering any demographic other than that.

i think you'd be wrong.

Terminus · #**2071** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 12:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybele

Well you have to wonder if any TAD money gets gobbled up in foreclosures like this? Say some TAD issues $100 million in bonds and gives the money to developers but the building doesn't get built and then they default. It seems like the taxpayers would wind up holding the bag to pay off the bonds and the interest. But maybe somebody else pays them off, I don't know?

That's a good question, since TADs are funded by the increase ("increment") in property taxes in an area from some previous pre-build condition. In most cases, the pre-build condition was blighted vacant land, so I think that the worst-case scenario (ie. a vacant new building) would still have more value than the vacant land. Yet in an area where land was extremely, extremely over-priced in the pre-build condition, what happens if the market drops and the the total project built is worse less than the land had cost? In such case, where the increment is negative, what happens?

briantech · #**2072** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 1:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by atl2phx

i think you'd be wrong.

So your alternative theory is ... what, then? Blue collar, lower income, older couples with lots of kids? lol ok.

cybele · #**2073** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 3:03 PM**

Well I heard about old people moving back to the city all the time because they were sick of the suburbs. Wasn't that supposed to be one of the great trends of the 2000s?

UVAsuperman · #**2074** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 4:32 PM**

Perhaps my condo building is an anamoly, but at Spire, we have a number of couples with newborns and small children (10 units +/-), probably a larger number of retirees and empty nesters, a decent number of students (mostly either renters or living in condos bought by relatives as investments), and a fair number of single residents (of all sexualities). While I'd agree that more than half of residents are college-educated and white collar professionals, I wouldn't call the building's residents young as a whole (owners probably range from lower 20s to 80s with the bulk in the upper 20s to mid 40s). I guess it's all relative.

sevensixtwo · #**2075** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 8:17 PM**

Viewpoint residents aren't exactly 'young' either.

atl2phx · #**2076** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 9:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by briantech

So your alternative theory is ... what, then? Blue collar, lower income, older couples with lots of kids? lol ok.

it has nothing to do with "my" alternative theory....it is what it is.

first, when someone markets a residential building, both the managing company and the financing company are bound by federal and state laws that prohibit them from vetting sales based on age, family status and race. so when someone refers to the potential demographic profiles, they're essentially referring to anyone in the market for a residential property that meets the criteria for buying said property.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sevensixtwo: I'd say the AS enthusiast demographics aren't appealing to all potential demographic profiles. ACF racial ranting: ACTIVATE!!!

second, the above comment was in response to someone asking for clarification about the reputation of atlantic station. i could be wrong, and sevensixtwo can clarify if need be, but it seems clear to me the above comment is a veiled reference to the demographics of atlantic station enthusiasts (which i assume is meant to mean "visitors") as largely african american. the comment then suggests that these enthusiasts/visitor demographics aren't in sync with potential buyers and/or incremental visitors.

i call bullshit on all that. atlantic station is what it is. it is at once, one of the most successful mega projects in the atlanta area and the united states. IMHO, it's more of a success because it does attract a diverse audience. for those that don't like the diversity, well, there's always mall of georgia, although, even mall of georgia is pretty diverse these days.

Quote:

Aren't the demographics for all these highrise modern condo buildings basically the same?

Young, college educated, white collar professionals with no kids who want to live in the city.

I think you'd be hardpressed to find a specific building garnering any demographic other than that.

regarding your comment above. get out much?

my experience has been that atlanta's residential highrise condo's are garnering a fairly diverse population with significant variance in age, education, career and family status. i would also say owners represent a fairly diverse racial makeup as well.

atl2phx · #**2077** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 9:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by UVAsuperman

Perhaps my condo building is an anamoly, but at Spire, we have a number of couples with newborns and small children (10 units +/-), probably a larger number of retirees and empty nesters, a decent number of students (mostly either renters or living in condos bought by relatives as investments), and a fair number of single residents (of all sexualities). While I'd agree that more than half of residents are college-educated and white collar professionals, I wouldn't call the building's residents young as a whole (owners probably range from lower 20s to 80s with the bulk in the upper 20s to mid 40s). I guess it's all relative.

good info. i think the findings would be similar throughout atlanta with certain buildings and different areas skewed to favor one demographic or another, (i.e. plaza midtown and gays, gallery and retirees, etc...).

i find it incredibly naive to assume high-rise condo's are singularly marketed to and inhabited by the young, the educated, the white collar and those without children.

atl2phx · #**2078** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 9:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by briantech

Aren't the demographics for all these highrise modern condo buildings basically the same?

Young, college educated, white collar professionals with no kids who want to live in the city.

I think you'd be hardpressed to find a specific building garnering any demographic other than that.

and georgia tech demographics are pretty basic too: white, southern and male.

am i right?

sevensixtwo · #**2079** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 10:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by atl2phx

and georgia tech demographics are pretty basic too: white, southern and male.

am i right?

I'd say those are three broad strokes you can reasonably apply to GT. Sure.

Generalizations facilitate ideas.

L41A · #**2080** Posted: **Jan 8, 2010, 10:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by atl2phx

and georgia tech demographics are pretty basic too: white, southern and male.

am i right?

I suppose your response was in jest. But when it comes to Georgia Tech demographics you may be right with the male part. However,the white and southern is less true especially when compared to other state universities in the South. Georgia Tech is lot less southern and white than most.

Nonetheless, I mostly agree and like all that you post. You seem to like diversity and I'm very much with you on that.