ATLANTA | Construction Thread V

[joecool]

Originally Posted by cityenthusiast

While a 50 story tower would be awesome what this city really needs right now is all this 20 story towers and infill going in all over the city to make the city more walkable and denser and too get rid of more surface lots. right now id rather have 4 20 story towers rather than one 50 story tower

ME TOO!!!! I'll take some 7 story towers at this point!

[atlgal]

Although only 4 stories, Georgia Tech is set to start on its new Engineered Biosystems building on 10th St in between State St and Atlantic Ave soon. They have already started to remove trees from the site and will be starting construction sometime this summer. See http://www.gov.gatech.edu/assets/fy1...talProject.pdf

[DPC]

Originally Posted by joecool

ME TOO!!!! I'll take some 7 story towers at this point!

I agree! Actually 7 story mixed use residential buildings densely built around a city create the most vibrancy. When you look at cities around the country, neighborhoods full of those type of buildings are the busiest neighborhoods. It's the only way to create 24 hour street vibrancy. I don't think we need many more skyscrapers. We need 6-8 story residential infill everywhere. If buildings like that are built close together, we could finally have our first urban neighborhood comparable to many of the neighborhoods in the northeast. The buildings would be lined with retail also creating a destination for all of the area.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by DPC

I agree! Actually 7 story mixed use residential buildings densely built around a city create the most vibrancy. When you look at cities around the country, neighborhoods full of those type of buildings are the busiest neighborhoods. It's the only way to create 24 hour street vibrancy. I don't think we need many more skyscrapers. We need 6-8 story residential infill everywhere. If buildings like that are built close together, we could finally have our first urban neighborhood comparable to many of the neighborhoods in the northeast. The buildings would be lined with retail also creating a destination for all of the area.

Is there a "like" button? Lol.

Leon Krier likes to describe skyscrapers as vertical cul-de-sacs. I think he's right in most cities.

[joecool]

But my guess would be that unfortunately building a 7 story building in midtown wouldn't be profitable enough considering the cost of the land. It would be waaaay more than the cost of the building and the profit from rent or anything like that would bring to pay for it.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by joecool

But my guess would be that unfortunately building a 7 story building in midtown wouldn't be profitable enough considering the cost of the land. It would be waaaay more than the cost of the building and the profit from rent or anything like that would bring to pay for it.

I don't know about that, considering the amount of infill that has been built in the last 15 years. I can think of several newer residential buildings of less than 10 stories in Midtown alone, so there must be a certain amount of profitability there.

[simms3_redux]

Land prices in Atlanta (outside of 2005-2007) are cheap, which is why so many institutions are hard-pressed to invest in Atlanta - only when their favored gateway markets are too hot. Lower land prices create very low barriers to entry to build, and so the city has always been a "development town". It's boom and bust and will be for decades to come until there is no more land. Chicago is much denser, and is still the same way. Many don't consider it a gateway market and it is lumped together with Atlanta. A life insurance company may back a new class A office tower with major anchors signed on, and then lo and behold 2 blocks away another tower goes up and the musical chairs continue there like they do in Atlanta.


BTW, the facade is being put on Skyhouse. Saw several floors of panes today. They will most likely be at floor 12 by the end of the week.

[DPC]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

Land prices in Atlanta (outside of 2005-2007) are cheap, which is why so many institutions are hard-pressed to invest in Atlanta - only when their favored gateway markets are too hot. Lower land prices create very low barriers to entry to build, and so the city has always been a "development town". It's boom and bust and will be for decades to come until there is no more land. Chicago is much denser, and is still the same way. Many don't consider it a gateway market and it is lumped together with Atlanta. A life insurance company may back a new class A office tower with major anchors signed on, and then lo and behold 2 blocks away another tower goes up and the musical chairs continue there like they do in Atlanta.


BTW, the facade is being put on Skyhouse. Saw several floors of panes today. They will most likely be at floor 12 by the end of the week.

What are the gateway markets in the US? How long do you think it will take Atlanta to become a gateway market?

[simms3_redux]

I think the big 6? NYC, Boston, DC, Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles...Everyone's definition is different and I am so uneducated on this, but I think I've heard people lump Miami and even San Diego in, and some may consider Chicago and even Minneapolis to an extent, or even Philly and Portland. It just depends on one's definition I suppose, and it also probably depends on whether you are talking office, multifamily, or industrial, or retail. I think gateway is most commonly associated with office - impossible barriers to entry so that only 100 or so firms can take down a building in such a market, strictest development and zoning laws, pool of talent, literally international gateways, etc etc.

Atlanta may never be considered a gateway market. It really doesn't help that it's not on the coast.

Chicago office buildings price similarly to Atlanta office buildings in Midtown and Buckhead, and both are development towns that frequently oversupply. Neither is on the coast, but both have large int'l airports and int'l populations. One is shrinking, but is still a magnet for young talent, and one is growing rapidly, but sprawling outward. Neither really fits the definition of a gateway market. I'd say that Atlanta is probably quite a bit more of a gateway than Dallas, maybe on par with Houston, but in the long run Atlanta will develop into a more mature market than its TX competitors, especially if transit is taken care of and all the recent trends of the last 5 years continue.

[DPC]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

I think the big 6? NYC, Boston, DC, Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles...Everyone's definition is different and I am so uneducated on this, but I think I've heard people lump Miami and even San Diego in, and some may consider Chicago and even Minneapolis to an extent, or even Philly and Portland. It just depends on one's definition I suppose, and it also probably depends on whether you are talking office, multifamily, or industrial, or retail. I think gateway is most commonly associated with office - impossible barriers to entry so that only 100 or so firms can take down a building in such a market, strictest development and zoning laws, pool of talent, literally international gateways, etc etc.

Atlanta may never be considered a gateway market. It really doesn't help that it's not on the coast.

Chicago office buildings price similarly to Atlanta office buildings in Midtown and Buckhead, and both are development towns that frequently oversupply. Neither is on the coast, but both have large int'l airports and int'l populations. One is shrinking, but is still a magnet for young talent, and one is growing rapidly, but sprawling outward. Neither really fits the definition of a gateway market. I'd say that Atlanta is probably quite a bit more of a gateway than Dallas, maybe on par with Houston, but in the long run Atlanta will develop into a more mature market than its TX competitors, especially if transit is taken care of and all the recent trends of the last 5 years continue.

I'm sure the fact that we are not on the coast hurts us but it's nice to know that we should outpace our peer cities in Texas. Also, we have Marta which is a heavy rail system and they only have light rail. Do you think Marta gives us an advantage over Dart in Dallas? I know they have expanded to become a larger system but it's still just light rail and we have way more ridership still even though Dallas's system is larger.

[joecool]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

I don't know about that, considering the amount of infill that has been built in the last 15 years. I can think of several newer residential buildings of less than 10 stories in Midtown alone, so there must be a certain amount of profitability there.

Yeah, that's true. So lets hope we see more 10 story buildings fill in the gaps! Anyone know what is the status of The Ansley? I heard someone say they was a trailer and bulldozer on site but I have not had the chance to drive by to see for myself.

[hamster]

Originally Posted by shivtim

There's some kind of renovation work on the Drew Eckl & Farnham Building at 8th and W.Ptree:

pictures are worth a thousand words... keep posting ATL progress

[hamster]

Originally Posted by shivtim

CDC's Buford Highway addition is up to 9 stories:

great pics

[testarossa50]

The problem with low and midrise development in Atlanta is that we have such a massive amount of land occupied by SFH that we really need to pack some density in the available land we have.

If we could have really dense lowrise and midrise housing, that would be great. Paris is among the densest cities in the world and is almost exclusively midrise. But in the US there is an expectation that every residential unit is going to have parking, a nice new complex is going to have a swimming pool and garden area, etc. Density takes a major hit will all of this stuff because you can't go up to compensate.

When you look at developments in Midtown, there are good low/midrise projects and good highrise projects, and bad low/midrise projects and bad highrise projects. The difference is how they engage the street, not the height of the projects, in my opinion.

But the worst case scenario definitely seems to be the lowrise fortress condo: Peachtree Walk, for instance. That doesn't have enough density to create substantial foot traffic and just leads to a dead street that will be dead forever. With the slightly older highrises that don't engage the street well with much retail or anything (Mayfair, 1280 West, Park Central), you at least end up with a bunch of density, and thus potential foot traffic that can support street-level retail elsewhere.

If we could have more midrise stuff like 905 Juniper, Midcity, etc, I'm all for it--density that can at least begin to support the retail below it. On the other hand, I'd rather have a surface lot than something like Ivy Hall; at least a surface lot can be developed into something cool later.

[shivtim]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

When you look at developments in Midtown, there are good low/midrise projects and good highrise projects, and bad low/midrise projects and bad highrise projects. The difference is how they engage the street, not the height of the projects, in my opinion.

But the worst case scenario definitely seems to be the lowrise fortress condo: Peachtree Walk, for instance. That doesn't have enough density to create substantial foot traffic and just leads to a dead street that will be dead forever. With the slightly older highrises that don't engage the street well with much retail or anything (Mayfair, 1280 West, Park Central), you at least end up with a bunch of density, and thus potential foot traffic that can support street-level retail elsewhere.

If we could have more midrise stuff like 905 Juniper, Midcity, etc, I'm all for it--density that can at least begin to support the retail below it. On the other hand, I'd rather have a surface lot than something like Ivy Hall; at least a surface lot can be developed into something cool later.

^THIS!
To me it doesn't matter if new construction in Atlanta is highrise or midrise, it depends entirely on how the site is used and how it addresses the street. And it doesn't always even have to support ground level retail - look at how much better Post Parkside is, for example, than Peachtree Walk or Tuscany (YUCK). The simple inclusion of ground-level entrances to individual units can help a lot. As far as I'm concerned, no new construction in Midtown or Downtown should be allowed to have a fence around it.

[drakon29]

Emory Medical Proton Laser Facility to potentially be built at North Avenue and Peachtree.

Here is the article published in BisNow:

http://app.newsletter.bisnow.com/e/e...f551be4aa804ff

[UVAsuperman]

Interesting... Sounds like a promising facility that would be great for Emory and Atlanta. I just wish that Cousins would hold onto the Fox Plaza site longer--seems like there is a higher and better use for that site than a midrise healthcare concern, even if it remains a grassy fenced off parcel for 5-10 more years.

[ChadK]

Originally Posted by atlgal

Although only 4 stories, Georgia Tech is set to start on its new Engineered Biosystems building on 10th St in between State St and Atlantic Ave soon. They have already started to remove trees from the site and will be starting construction sometime this summer. See http://www.gov.gatech.edu/assets/fy1...talProject.pdf

There's also some GA Tech activity on Northside Drive, near 10th Street. The area is currently a parking lot adjacent to Woodruff Residence Hall and Eight Street Apartments. Fences are up and some machinery is on site but I haven't been able to locate info on this yet. It's right outside my window so I'm curious.

[trainiac]

Originally Posted by shivtim

^THIS!
To me it doesn't matter if new construction in Atlanta is highrise or midrise, it depends entirely on how the site is used and how it addresses the street. And it doesn't always even have to support ground level retail - look at how much better Post Parkside is, for example, than Peachtree Walk or Tuscany (YUCK). The simple inclusion of ground-level entrances to individual units can help a lot. As far as I'm concerned, no new construction in Midtown or Downtown should be allowed to have a fence around it.

Right on! When Post Parkside was finished, along with the building that now has Jason's Deli and the great corner building with Flying Biscuit my walk to the park got sooooo much more pleasant. If only the Blue Spa people hadn't sued the Mezzo people.

[testarossa50]

Originally Posted by drakon29

Emory Medical Proton Laser Facility to potentially be built at North Avenue and Peachtree.

Here is the article published in BisNow:

http://app.newsletter.bisnow.com/e/e...f551be4aa804ff

Great that this sort of thing is coming to the metro, but a completely inappropriate location. At least if they plan on this being the only thing on the whole lot.

That's such an important piece of land--so close to a MARTA station, next to some of Atlanta's grandest historic architecture, at the intersection of major roads and a proposed transit corridor--that it really needs to be something more than a 100k SF medical facility. Even if it is super high tech.

Maybe if they just build on the Juniper side of the parcel and then sell the Peachtree side for further development it will be okay.


Wasn't Emory planning on building a ~20 floor med tower at West Peachtree & Linden? Seems like that would be a great place to house this sort of thing.