ATLANTA | Construction Thread V - Page 91

sevensixtwo · #**1801** Posted: **Oct 12, 2009, 12:35 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLMidtown1

Midtown Stakeholders Opposing the SPI Club
S. Stephen Selig, President and CEO, Selig Enterprises

If Selig makes any effort for it not to happen, it won't happen. Otherwise, his alleged opposition is just lip service.

micropundit · #**1802** Posted: **Oct 12, 2009, 2:02 PM**

I am very curious as to why all of the opposition to the new nightclubs centers on the TENANTS and not the landlord, who made a decision to 1) rent the property and 2) to rent it as a nightclub? If the citizens were so concerned, why did they not petition the landlord who can rescind the lease?

cybele · #**1803** Posted: **Oct 12, 2009, 4:29 PM**

Sandra Rose has an interesting comment on this:

Quote:

The residents, all white, were opposed to the new club that draws a mostly hip, urban crowd.

Why is it only the white residents of Midtown who are protesting the club? Apparently the other residents of Midtown don't have a problem.

tech · #**1804** Posted: **Oct 12, 2009, 5:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybele

Sandra Rose has an interesting comment on this:

Why is it only the white residents of Midtown who are protesting the club? Apparently the other residents of Midtown don't have a problem.

This was written more than two months ago by someone with a major bias in favor of the club, more people have stepped up since then, both white and black. This is not a race issue, it is a noise, trash, and crime issue for a neighborhood that is trying to better itself.

In the long run, this club can't stay forever as this is the planned spot for Midtown Square from Dewberry Capital, hopefully that can get off the ground someday.

arnage · #**1805** Posted: **Oct 12, 2009, 5:25 PM**

It's really sad that we are stuck on this being a race issue. I have several black friends who oppose this because a club of this size makes no sence on peachtree anymore! I miss this thread being about skyscrapers.

popewiz · #**1806** Posted: **Oct 12, 2009, 5:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybele

Sandra Rose has an interesting comment on this:

Why is it only the white residents of Midtown who are protesting the club? Apparently the other residents of Midtown don't have a problem.

Why stop there? By your logic, since there were only a few hundred people that showed up at these meetings, and there are tens of thousands of midtown residents, they must all be ok with it, right?

cybele's ideal intown Atlanta = 24 lane super highway lined with 20,000sf+ night clubs.

cybele · #**1807** Posted: **Oct 12, 2009, 5:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by popewiz

Why stop there? By your logic, since there were only a few hundred people that showed up at these meetings, and there are tens of thousands of midtown residents, they must all be ok with it, right?

Well, yeah, that is what I would assume, or something pretty close to it. The might be some people who had to work or couldn't get a baby-sitter. Otherwise why wouldn't they show up?

Quote:

cybele's ideal intown Atlanta = 24 lane super highway lined with 20,000sf+ night clubs.

Not really. But you have to admit that would be pretty amazing!

atl2phx · #**1808** Posted: **Oct 12, 2009, 6:26 PM**

it's pretty simple and it's been stated over and over.....the opposition is a direct response to the location and size of the club along with the crowds, noise and nuisance these mega clubs attract.

the fact that opera is open in no way means no one opposed that club, in fact, there's been a long history of neighborhood opposition against clubs in that location going as far back as petrus in the early 90's.

there's no reason to vilify residents of midtown for opposing a mega club they feel is out of character for a part of town where the long term vision is to attract more residents, retailers, businesses and cultural attractions.

the fact that SPI/vision will likely attract a majority black clientele is secondary to the list of reasons why the club is being opposed. if you want to call it racism to oppose the club, it's rational racism at worst, but it's wrong to categorize the opposition as racist simply because the clientele is black.

i have no doubt that the same level of opposition would rise for the exact same club if it were to be marketed as a re-opening of backstreet, a new limelight, or an import of some mega club from south beach, vegas or NYC.

the opposition IS NOT about race.

ATLMidtown1 · #**1809** Posted: **Oct 12, 2009, 6:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybele

Sandra Rose has an interesting comment on this:

Why is it only the white residents of Midtown who are protesting the club? Apparently the other residents of Midtown don't have a problem.

This seems typical of Atlanta when you try to put a nightclub in against the will of the community (ie MNA and NPU-E opposition) that is very poorly planned (traffic, parking, litter) to turn it into a racial issue to polarize the community.

Consider this example...Keep all the variables of the current SPI Club the same, but change the club to Wild Bill's. Wild Bill's typically is a predominately white club, hence you can't claim a racial bias. I'm sure that the MNA and NPU-E would still oppose the Wild Bill's nightclub on the same neighborhood incompatiability and poor planning issues they had with the SPI Club. But I would find it hard to believe that city (Liquor Lic Rev) and mayor would grant a liquor license despite the community opposition.

My point is that the racial bias arguement for this club is a red herring. When Vision was open, it wasn't just a black club. I've been there before and it was very similar to the Midtown W. Walk around midtown Peachtree Street and see that it's already very multi-racial. It's not going to become a white enclave and anyone that has racial intolerance is going to move to the suburbs.

popewiz · #**1810** Posted: **Oct 12, 2009, 8:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybele

Well, yeah, that is what I would assume, or something pretty close to it. The might be some people who had to work or couldn't get a baby-sitter. Otherwise why wouldn't they show up?

I know you're being sarcastic here, but it touches on an important issue. When people are concerned in their community, one way or the other, they should really show up.

I think in the case of this new club, what we see is that the negative impact on the residents in the area would far outweigh the positive impact for the people who would be frequenting the club. So, you end up getting only the people opposed. Of course even that may not have been enough.

cybele · #**1811** Posted: **Oct 12, 2009, 9:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by popewiz

I think in the case of this new club, what we see is that the negative impact on the residents in the area would far outweigh the positive impact for the people who would be frequenting the club.

I was assuming that most people who will come to the club live in or near Midtown and thus have an interest in seeing their neighborhood livened up as well as treated with care. Is that not the case?

1lifealex · #**1812** Posted: **Oct 13, 2009, 12:25 AM**

I think Atlanta should have an area where nothing but clubs and bars are allowed, but where?

Fiorenza · #**1813** Posted: **Oct 13, 2009, 1:46 AM**

Underground

cybele · #**1814** Posted: **Oct 13, 2009, 12:36 PM**

Underground would be perfect. It's walkable and centrally located, and it has tremendous historic character and architectural charm. Underground is totally vehicle free and it has the best transit access of any place in the South.

Something like that would totally jump start Downtown.

BlindFatSnake · #**1815** Posted: **Oct 13, 2009, 1:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLMidtown1

This seems typical of Atlanta when you try to put a nightclub in against the will of the community (ie MNA and NPU-E opposition) that is very poorly planned (traffic, parking, litter) to turn it into a racial issue to polarize the community.

This city has always had issues with race simply because there is a HUGE black population in the metro area in one of the most racist states in the U.S. Only NYC and Chicago have more blacks, and Atlanta is only about 100,000 shy of passing Chicagoland, and the percentage of blacks in metro Atlanta is much higher than either NYC or Chitown. So, race will always be front and center.

Just wait until the mayoral race is gearing up for a run-off. Y'all ain't seen nothing yet... CNN and every network news channel will be covering the lead-up and final results as if the world revolved around it... The question will be: Will the Black Mecca continue to thrive with a white mayor at the wheel? Sure it will...

ATL_J · #**1816** Posted: **Oct 13, 2009, 3:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1lifealex

I think Atlanta should have an area where nothing but clubs and bars are allowed, but where?

I really, really think this is a bad idea. If the City of Atlanta wants to encourage clubs and bars to be located somewhere, that's fine, but I don't think they should A) not allow them elsewhere and B) only allow clubs and bars in a certain area. Maybe you didn't mean outlaw them elsewhere, but I assume that's part of the deal. Why else would someone open up a bar/club where there's no clients because only bars and clubs are allowed in this area?

Anyways, I think bars and clubs should be allowed to be wherever in all sorts of different neighborhoods and locations. Granted, if the residents don't want it there, that's fine. They're entitled to that, because after all it is their neighborhood.

ATL_J · #**1817** Posted: **Oct 13, 2009, 3:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybele

Underground would be perfect. It's walkable and centrally located, and it has tremendous historic character and architectural charm. Underground is totally vehicle free and it has the best transit access of any place in the South.

Something like that would totally jump start Downtown.

They already tried it once at Underground, it didn't work.

It doesn't matter if its walkable, centrally located, and has the best transit access of any place. The majority of people can't just walk to a MARTA station, so they have to drive.

There's already established areas with plenty of bars/clubs that people are drive to anyways, so why would they come to Underground?

popewiz · #**1818** Posted: **Oct 13, 2009, 9:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybele

I was assuming that most people who will come to the club live in or near Midtown and thus have an interest in seeing their neighborhood livened up as well as treated with care. Is that not the case?

To be honest, I don't think so. When Vision was here previously, I was living either 2 blocks south on Peachtree, on Howell Mill, on Monroe, or at Tech, and I never knew any of my friends or colleagues to go there. They frequented Opera (1150), Twisted Taco, Sutra, Halo, etc., but I never really knew anyone in the area that went to Vision.

As far as livening up Midtown, I'm all for it. Personally, I'd just like to see it done responsibly a la Crescent. Smaller clubs and lounges plus a few more bars like the old Loca Luna and the Irish place (drawing a blank on the name) where Viewpoint is now would be great.

cybele · #**1819** Posted: **Oct 13, 2009, 11:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATL_J

It doesn't matter if its walkable, centrally located, and has the best transit access of any place. The majority of people can't just walk to a MARTA station, so they have to drive.

Well if most people are going to drive, the clubs could go anywhere. What's the value of putting them in a place like Midtown where people have been been knocking themselves out to create a walkable, transit oriented environment? Especially if, as popewiz says, local folks aren't the primary patrons.

I'm just speaking from a planning standpoint.

TarHeelJ · #**1820** Posted: **Oct 14, 2009, 12:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATL_J

They already tried it once at Underground, it didn't work.

It doesn't matter if its walkable, centrally located, and has the best transit access of any place. The majority of people can't just walk to a MARTA station, so they have to drive.

There's already established areas with plenty of bars/clubs that people are drive to anyways, so why would they come to Underground?

Clubs at Underground didn't work? There are currently 8 bars and clubs located at Underground - at least 4 of them are large dance clubs. I don't know how popular they are, but they look pretty nice and seem to be doing okay...at least they can stay open late.

It also doesn't matter how many people can walk to a MARTA station. Nobody is going to use MARTA to go out at night because it stops running long before the clubs close.