Originally Posted by edluva
allen, my point was mainly to question the automatic tie people make between chinese culture and the chinese nation. while european "traditions" persist in the us, they are based mostly on reason and humanism - universal ideals, not cultural or religious ones. that concept is lost upon the taiwanese, or other people of chinese origin for that matter. it's also lost upon the japanese and koreans but they don't have the issues taiwan does.
so to razqal - this is where you're incorrect in associating taiwan with america. taiwan lacks the universal values that give the united states its purpose and identity. confucianism keeps the descendants of kmt from developing ideas about their own identity, and of taiwanese identity. everyone's a good kid with good face. what pious daughter will voluntarily endure the pain of rebelling the brainwashing of her grandparents, much less sufficiently question her own sense of individuality to get there? especially in a society where businesses and wealth are treated as family heirlooms. you have much more to lose when you're of a wealthy waishengren industrialist family. and then you can get an idea of how stuck-in-the-past chinese people can be. your comparison with japan and korea are moot because they don't have a monolithic political bully and an imposed civil war legacy to free themselves from. the "taiwanese" got more than they bargained for when kmt arrived...
in the end, taiwan is confused. and artistically, the nation is at a loss to express a clear message of itself.
edluva, i feel like you've gone off on several tangents with your arguments. you're the one who brought up confucian culture. you say:
"taiwan's only hope lies in its youth's ability to write a more inclusive, more taiwanese chapter of history. but this would require the waishengren divorce themselves from their kmt legacy. this would require they find freedom from confucian values, freedom from filial piety, and ultimately freedom from nepotism."
but when i validly mention that japan and south korea, examples of other asian nation successes that are also confucian societies, you merely dismiss them because they dont have to deal with china. is your issue with china itself or chinese/confucian culture in general? if you just want to primarily criticize confucian culture than your point about japan/korea not being bullied by china is also a moot point. because i believe confucian values have played a significant and positive role in taiwan's development success much as it did with south korea, china and japan. chinese/confucian values isnt the problem but taiwan's lack of nationalism
and/or struggles to develop a nationalist identity mainly due to china's suppression and pro-china taiwanese. taiwan can still remain a chinese society with confucian values and STILL BE TAIWAN. just like the u.s. can be a eurocentric country and still be the u.s. with her own identity and nationality. my argument is that taiwan lacks that nationalism at the level of south korea, china and the u.s. which makes her people want to have world class architecture, to build world class infrastructure like airports, to build world class industries and brand name companies, to have the best military, to establish world class olympic sporting teams, to be the best in every aspect. but as previously mentioned taiwan has had a turbulent history and is still a work in progress but she has come a long way. on a side note, back to your jibes at chinese/confucian culture, not everything about western culture and values is great you know. there are many things the west can learn from asian culture.
and there most definitely is a parallel between taiwan and the u.s. i was specifically referring to the establishment of both countries: that they are both lands that had existing native populations but resettled with the arrival of immigrants from abroad. whereas the u.s. had established their identity and nationality, taiwan is still in that process but for the fact that china remains the primary obstacle. but i'm not going to waste any more time discussing this in this thread. it's been totally off topic for a while now.