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  #61  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2009, 9:24 PM
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MayDay MayDay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
OK, sorry. The Healthline. My bad.

But seriously. 59 stations! That's 7 more than all three of Cleveland's rail lines put together. 16 more than the entire BART system! If the goal was a comparable level of service to light rail, the mark has been missed by a wide margin.

I'm not trying to be snarky. I am wondering how effective your service is. It looks like it stops on every single block, for goodness sake. That stop frequency annoys me on local bus lines (and is something we're doing away with here), but on a supposedly regional rapid line? I'm not suggesting it isn't better than a normal bus, but if it's like that for a large portion of its route then it is most certainly not "rapid".
Just to clarify, I only mentioned it in this thread because it appears on RTA's map - I figured if I didn't explain what it was, someone would have asked "what's the Healthline"?

Your knowledge of transit info is admirable but how is it possible that you can say "well DC is doing THIS, why can't Cleveland?" - as if it were just a matter of people saying "gee folks, do we want light rail or BRT? Ahh f#ck it, let's just go the cheap route". As if that was the case.

The simple answer is funding for projects like this (or light rail) comes from the STATE level. DC isn't burdened with the kind of downstate yokels (politicians and voters) that Cleveland is. Remember, this is the land of Dennis Kucinich as well as the first heavy rail transit from a major city airport to its CBD. If it were up to Northeast Ohio, there would be commuter rail lines, expanded light rail, etc. But unfortunately, the political clout of suburbia and downstate knuckleheads outweighs votes that might help transit in Cleveland. Cleveland has to deal with things like this (from the Ohio Public Transportation Association):

"As it stands, Ohio's per capita spending on public transit ranks down in the realm of South Dakota, New Mexico and West Virginia. Ohio underwriting for public transportation has fallen from $43.4 million in 2001 to $16 million this year, a 63 percent drop, according to the Ohio Public Transportation Association. That placed the funding at 1980 levels. The association says Pennsylvania spends $63.29 per capita on public transportation, Illinois $61.25 and Michigan $20.73. Ohio's rate is $1.58 per capita.

Read that twice, just to make sure you don't throw out the "but DC is doing away with..." line again. With figures like that, it's a miracle the Healthline project even went through. It was never marketed or planned to have a level of service *comparable* to light rail. An improvement on one of the heaviest traveled bus lines? Yes. Having some "rail-like" benefits? Yes. But not "la dee da, just as good as rail!". Some BRT lines *have* been marketed that way, but not Cleveland's - but it is a VAST improvement over the traditional line it replaced.

From my personal experience (taking Euclid Avenue from downtown to the Cleveland Clinic for appointments), instead of the 20ish to 30ish minutes it used to take - it's more like 10 or 15. Thanks to pay-before-boarding/proof-of-payment, dedicated lanes, and prioritized signals, it's much MUCH faster than standard buslines. Comparable to light rail? Obviously not, but considering it was BRT or bust - I'm glad Cleveland got BRT.
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  #62  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2009, 9:49 PM
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Seoul's system is a total mess on paper, but it's been wonderfully integrated into the city. It's cheap, fast, clean, modern, and easy to navigate.

I've been on rails in Chicago, St. Louis, Cleveland, Washington, Boston, NYC, London, Paris, and Seoul. Seoul was the absolute best.
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  #63  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2009, 5:42 AM
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The Norfolk line will get an extension somewhere in the next 10 years(hopefully 5), 12 miles through the Virgnia Beach downtown and to the oceanfront from newtown road.

Then there is also plans to extend it the other way up through ODU and to the naval base.
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  #64  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2009, 3:46 PM
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Cirrus Cirrus is offline
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Whoa whoa whoa, MayDay. This isn't a money issue, nor is it a LRT versus BRT issue. You're completely mischaracterizing my questions about the Healthline.

It costs *more* to build a fancy stop on every block than it does to put a stop every five or six blocks, and it costs *more* to keep up short bus headways when it takes vehicles longer to make their run because they stop all the time. From a money perspective, it is CHEAPER to run a limited-stop operation than an every-block operation, especially if you're building all the stops new from scratch (as I believe they did w/ the Healthline). In fact, the whole limited-stop bus movement currently making its way through cities started in LA in the 90s when the bus agency there received a court order to move more people more quickly but had to do it without increasing their budget.

It's great that the Euclid line is better than what was there before, and it's perfectly understandable that not everyone can put rail everywhere they want. What I do not understand is why anyone would spend EXTRA money to make a supposedly express service stop on every block, when that makes the service LESS rapid and costs MORE.

Pay-before-boarding/proof-of-payment, dedicated lanes, prioritized signals... all that stuff is great. Nobody is saying it isn't. I'm asking why you would pay MORE to build a bunch of unnecessary stations that cause the service to be SLOWER than it needs to be. Keep everything the same as it is, but only build 20% of the stops (cheaper!) and that would be a BETTER service.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2009, 6:34 PM
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and the TGV (High Speed Train) :

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  #66  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 12:53 AM
itszjay itszjay is offline
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Guangzhou Metro - Guangzhou, China

Right now (4 Lines - 64 Station 116km)


2011-2012 (7 Lines - 120+ Stations 198km) with 1 APM, 1 BRT, 1 city to city line


2020 (15 Lines 550km - lots of stations?) sorry couldn't find a map in english - map from nddaily.com


2040 (20 Lines 760km+ - too much station?) sorry couldn't find a map in english - map from nddaily.com (11 city to city line - 280km) (not final)
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  #67  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 1:21 AM
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2040? Sounds like it's a bit too far off in the future.
The plans for 2020 look great. Amazing system!
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  #68  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 1:37 AM
rich1077 rich1077 is offline
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Tokyo

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  #69  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 1:58 AM
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holy shit
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  #70  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 7:51 PM
CoastersBolts CoastersBolts is offline
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San Diego Trolley

Here's a current map for the San Diego Trolley light rail. Amtrak and a commuter system called Coaster run through part of the city but proceed up the coast into North County. Those maps are not included. Needless to say, while the trolley covers about 55 miles of track stretching from Downtown San Diego to the US/Mexico border and into East County San Diego, the route pales in comparison to some of the others included on here.

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  #71  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 11:06 PM
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Looks like Tokyo doesn't have enough rail in the southeast metro area. :p
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  #72  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2009, 2:52 AM
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holy shit
Word. Looks like somebody threw spaghetti at the wall.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2009, 4:41 AM
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Jarrod Jarrod is offline
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My god, I'd get so lost in some of those systems! LOL.. my sister gets lost on SkyTrain in Vancouver HA!

I guess I should post an Edmonton map of our LRT... I'll do it later.
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  #74  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2009, 8:25 PM
cubs20089 cubs20089 is offline
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How in God's green earth does anyone read the Toyko, London, Paris, and Seoul maps. At least with New york's you can understand it.
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  #75  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2009, 8:48 PM
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VivaLFuego VivaLFuego is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrod View Post
my sister gets lost on SkyTrain in Vancouver HA!
Admittedly, the way the Skytrain crosses itself in a knot is quite bizarre. In Chicago we actually have a bus route like that (the 111) that has 4 stops each in a different direction at the same intersection. Confuses everyone of course.
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  #76  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2009, 9:01 PM
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I always liked this privately made Shanghai 2020 map, by Japanese guy FML:

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  #77  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2009, 9:06 PM
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While I'm at it, he made this Taipei 2020 map as well:





... as well as this monster that he calls "Greater Tōkyō/Yokohama Area 2020, version "too positive"" (click for original size-- 4000px width)

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  #78  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2009, 2:26 AM
ukw ukw is online now
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Rail Systems in Your City

Rail System in Washington DC, USA

1) the Metro (mostly underground), which as all of you know, had a tragic accident on June 22, when two trains collided and 9 people were killed. That actually happened on my line, the red line.



The Metro services DC and the surrounding suburbs of Maryland and Virginia, the neighboring states, which are densely interconnected. The Red and Orange lines are extremely congested; the high ridership is due to the huge professional job market in DC. It's not unusual to be stuck on the train or have delays. My boss from work was once on a train that had to wait in the middle of the tunnel for an hour--on the Orange Line. The Metro is extremely inefficient in DC. It closes early, has constant interruptions, and is poorly maintained.



2) In addition to Metro we also have a huge number of various trains, all serviced by the central Union Station; something remarkably European. I'll explain what they are shortly.



- MARC: MARC trains connect DC with Maryland. There are 3 lines into MD, including Baltimore. MARC's tracks run parallel to some of the Red Line Metro tracks initially, and then beyond. Some cars are double-deck, depending on time of day:



- VRE: connects DC with Virginia. 2 Lines. This commuter train reaches some very rural places down South, because Virginia is a lot less urban than its neighbor up north.



- Amtrack Regional trains: to NYC, Boston, or any other point in the Northeastern Corridor. Also trains to Florida ("Silver Meteor") all the way up North to Vermont ("The Vermonter"). For a complete list, click here

- From here you can also take the Acela Train, the fastest train in the US (but still considerably slow compared to its European counterparts):



The Acela can take you anywhere on the Boston-NYC-DC corridor. In theory, it can attain speeds of up to 150 mph (240 km/h), but there are a lot of restrictions on railroads in the US. The tracks are old and can't support fast speeds. To compensate, Acela has a "tilting" of the cars which still can speed up travel. However, it's unlikely that the train will even reach 100mph anywhere on the railroad.

That's pretty much DC--one of the most connected places in America. In addition to Metro and the trains, there's also talk of streetcars which may appear here in 2012. I've read that some streetcars have already been bought from the Czech Republic, and their purpose will be to connect Metro stations horizontally.

Now it's your turn.

Last edited by ukw; Jul 1, 2009 at 2:43 AM.
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  #79  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2009, 2:54 AM
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Houston has only one light rail line currently but four more are coming - only organized opposition is among property owners along the University Line route on Richmond Avenue.
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  #80  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2009, 3:23 AM
itszjay itszjay is offline
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I mostly stay in Boston for most of the year, but summer I stay at Guangzhou

Boston has 3 Heavy Rail Line (51 Stations), and a Light Rail line with 4 branch (74 Stations) along with Silver Line (BRT) (22 Stations). Heavy Rail ridership is the 4th busiest in USA and light rail is the busiest in USA. Really good in my mind for American Standers.



Guangzhou has 4 heavy Rail Line (64 Stations) but by 2010/2011 It'll have 8 Lines with at least 120+ Stations. It's the world 18th busiest subway system in terms of passenger rides.

Last edited by itszjay; Jul 1, 2009 at 1:40 PM.
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