HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     
Welcome to the SkyscraperPage Forum.

Since 1999, SkyscraperPage.com's forum has been one of the most active skyscraper enthusiast communities on the web.  The global membership discusses development news and construction activity on projects from around the world, alongside discussions on urban design, architecture, transportation and many other topics.  SkyscraperPage.com also features unique skyscraper diagrams, a database of construction activity, and publishes popular skyscraper posters.

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountain West

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2009, 4:23 PM
guppyflyer's Avatar
guppyflyer guppyflyer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: 5280' msl
Posts: 55
EMU and DMU candidates for Denver

If you haven't seen these, here are the manufacturers presentations to SMART for DMU's and DMU/EMU hybrids. With the demise of Colorado Railcar many have wondered what future FRA compliant DMU's might look like.........here's a glance at what might be in our future (provided we can figure out how to fund it)!

Erik

Ansaldo Breda Presentation

Bombardier Presentation

Nippon Sharyo Presentation

Stadler Presentation


Siemens Presentation

Last edited by guppyflyer; Apr 16, 2009 at 4:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2009, 10:08 PM
blm3034L!fe's Avatar
blm3034L!fe blm3034L!fe is offline
Denver is the M/W Father!
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: IN THE LAND OF MILK AND HONEY WHERE HOPS AND CANNABIS REIGN SUPREME!
Posts: 1,987
Apparently there will be some funding from the federal government? Obama announced that he plans 10 major High Speed rail services to select areas or Cities in the U.S. With everything Denver has in place as far as fast tracks is concerned, I believe that Denver will be one of the select locations for the funding. But we will see I guess, nothing was announced as far as who and where the HSR Services will be.
__________________
We're either progressing or retrograding all the time.

There is no such thing as remaining constant.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2009, 7:24 PM
bcp's Avatar
bcp bcp is offline
Urban Living
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,721
^nope...same old map that doesnt include the front range
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2009, 8:43 PM
PLANSIT's Avatar
PLANSIT PLANSIT is online now
aka ptownsnwbrdr
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,614
It would have definitely been nice to keep the DMU purchases local even it that meant an aesthetically inferior product, but I have to say, some of those proposals are fantastic (aesthetically).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2009, 10:19 PM
bcp's Avatar
bcp bcp is offline
Urban Living
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,721
oh yeha...that semens train is really a beauty!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2009, 4:55 AM
seventwenty's Avatar
seventwenty seventwenty is offline
Cars man... WHY...
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: A bit too far from home
Posts: 782
God, that Siemens train is fugly. Bombardier TALENT ftw

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2009, 5:31 AM
llamaorama's Avatar
llamaorama llamaorama is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,313
^seconded. Would be nice to see the interior though.

Also I read on another forum about trains that AnsaldoBreda has issues.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2009, 12:40 PM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 2,230
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventwenty View Post
God, that Siemens train is fugly. Bombardier TALENT ftw
It's a shame the Bombardier Talent 2 is not FRA compliant. Which means no American transit agency will ever seriously consider it on shared tracks owned by the freight corporations. Meeting EPA Tier 4 emission standards will also be a must in the very near future. Here's a chart
Rated Power, P Year PM NOx
P < 19 kW (25 hp) 2008 0.40 (0.30) -
19 ≤ P < 56 kW (75 hp) 2013 0.03 (0.022) 4.7* (3.5)
56 ≤ P < 130 kW (175 hp) 2012-2014 0.02 (0.015) 0.40 (0.30)
130 ≤ P < 560 kW (750 hp) 2011-2014 0.02 (0.015) 0.40 (0.30)
P ≥ 560 kW (750 hp) 2011-2014 0.02 (0.015) 0.40 (0.30)
* NOx + NMHC
Note: I bolded the text of the power ranges used by most DMUs
The Tier 4 proposal in only partially harmonized with European regulations. The new EPA transient test cycle is identical to that introduced with the EU Stage III nonroad standards proposal January 2003. The PM standards, however, are different, with the EU Stage IIIB of 0.025 g/kWh compared to the Tier 4 of 0.02 g/kWh. The EU has not yet proposed aftertreatment-forcing standards for NOx.

Again, another presentation from SMART
http://www.sonomamarintrain.org/user...%20rev%202.pdf

Alstom Citadis Alternate Compliance
Dual Mode Power Diesel and 750Vdc Street car type
Upgrade to Tier 4 possible

Alstom LINT Alternate Compliance
Diesel hydraulic Interurban
Upgrade to Tier 4 unlikely

Bombardier Talent Alternate Compliance
Diesel hydraulic or diesel electric Interurban
Will not be upgraded to Tier 4. A new version (Talent 2) will be Tier 4 in the future.

Bombardier AGC Alternate Compliance
Diesel electric Interurban
Position of Bombardier regarding upgrade to Tier 4 is not known.

Bombardier AGC Hybrid Alternate Compliance
Dual mode (hybrid) Diesel and 25 kV or 1500 Vdc
Position of Bombardier regarding upgrade to Tier 4 is not known.

Bombardier M7 FRA Compliance
Diesel electric
Exists only as EMU. Bombardier could possibly convert this to a DMU from this design.
A 14 vehicle order might be too small for Bombardier to develop a DMU version of the M7.

Breda IC4 Alternate Compliance
Diesel mechanic Interurban
Position of Breda regarding Tier 4 is not known.

CAF FRA or Alternate Compliance
Diesel electric Interurban
CAF can propose an alternatecompliant or an FRA‐complaint DMU.
The FRA‐compliant DMU will be derived from a European design.
Position of CAF regarding Tier 4 is not known.

Siemens Desiro Alternate Compliance
Diesel hydraulic Interurban
Siemens does not plan to upgrade this vehicle to Tier 4 compliance. The next generation “Desiro ML” has not been ordered as a DMU yet.

Siemens DMU Study FRA Compliance
Diesel electric Interurban
Siemens seems very interested in building this vehicle, possibly even for a small order such as
for SMART. Would meet Tier 4.

Hyundai Rotem TTA DMU FRA Compliance
Diesel hydraulic
Hyundai Rotem did proceed with an FRA‐compliant DMU design for TTA.
It can be assumed that Hyundai Rotem might be interested in providing this vehicle to SMART.
Engines would have to be upgraded to Tier 4.

Nippon Sharyo FRA Compliance
Diesel hydraulic
Nippon Sharyo is likely to bid an FRA‐compliant DMU.
Would meet Tier 4

Stadler GTW2/6 Alternate Compliance
Diesel electric Interurban
The only alternate compliant DMU which most likely will comply with EPA Tier 4 emissions.

Last edited by electricron; Apr 18, 2009 at 1:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2009, 6:50 AM
Eliyah78 Eliyah78 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 81
As explained to me by several Fastracks officials representing each commuter rail corridor, RTD's current objective is to find a rail car manufacturer that could custom design a DMU based off the platform configurations of the selected EMU technology for the East Corridor and Gold Line. The purpose would be to (1) allow a standard loading platform for joint EMU/DMU stations (41st/Fox, Union Station) and (2) afford the possibility of substituting EMU cars with DMUs in the event of a grid failure.

The more I speak with the RTD project teams, the more I am convinced we are going to get EMUs similar to the Arrow IIIs being used by New Jersey Tranist. Right now NJT runs both electrified commuter rail trains and locomotive-hauled commuter rail coaches on the same track which almost always share the same loading platforms.

E
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2009, 9:03 AM
SnyderBock's Avatar
SnyderBock SnyderBock is offline
Robotic Construction
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,671
I like this one the most:


As for the Arrow III, I hope not! Those are obsolete. However, the Arrow VI DDMU has the ability run run
seamlessly between electrified and non-electrified segments of rail. It is probably closest to being FRA-compliant.
__________________
Automation Is Still the Future
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2009, 9:57 PM
seventwenty's Avatar
seventwenty seventwenty is offline
Cars man... WHY...
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: A bit too far from home
Posts: 782
Where can one find FRA- regulations?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2009, 6:04 AM
Eliyah78 Eliyah78 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnyderBock View Post
I like this one the most:


As for the Arrow III, I hope not! Those are obsolete. However, the Arrow VI DDMU has the ability run run
seamlessly between electrified and non-electrified segments of rail. It is probably closest to being FRA-compliant.
Production of the Arrow IV is still a long way off, even if the manufacturer soon decides to push through with the latest redesign. RTD's preferred rail car configurations are actually available by request. I believe I may have a copy of this document if anyone is interested.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2009, 9:21 AM
SnyderBock's Avatar
SnyderBock SnyderBock is offline
Robotic Construction
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,671
How are RTD's preferred rail car configuration actually available by request> Sure, any number of EMU's are available upon request. However, RTD also is planning the North Metro and NW lines to be DMU and there are not any FRA-compliant DMU's available upon request. I don't understand what you are saying here?

Arrow VI's are a long way off? the NJ Transit is moving forward with the plan to upgrade to these trains. How far away could they be?
__________________
Automation Is Still the Future
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountain West
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:19 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.