Calgary Water Cooler Talk Thread

[shreddog]

Was down at the Harvie passage yesterday - the water is high, the fire department has "closed" the river and some kayakers were playing in it. Unfortunately I was there too early with the camera and only caught the flow ....

Entrance into the "easy" channel with water overflowing the sdes ..


From the bottom looking up - no pools, fast eddies and one continual wave ...

[Innersoul1]

Congrats to our very own Rusty for making ffwd best of Calgary list!

Best professor

Ron Glasberg
Noel Keough
John Manzo

http://www.ffwdweekly.com/article/li...-results-9278/

[WIGS]

Check out this amazing transformation of Buffalo's once-grand Lafayette Hotel, restored to its former glory into a fully mixed-use structure. I thought that the architecture geeks who love classic American architecture of the early 20th century would enjoy seeing this. It's one of the finest buildings in Buffalo once again thanks to one of Buffalo's best developers.

-Built in 1904 and designed by Louise Bethune, first female architect in the AIA
-once considered one of the top 15 hotels in the United States
-Included in the building is a 34-room boutique hotel, 115 apartments, a bakery, flower shop, Pearl @ the Lafayette (brewery/restaurant), a men's store, Michael A’s Steakhouse, a banquet/catering company, lobby bar and jewelry store. Basically a one stop shop for weddings.
-other interesting tidbit: The artwork at the hotel was restored by students of my alma mater, Buffalo State which has one of the best university Art Conservation programs in the U.S.

Video
more photos

[WIGS]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

Congrats to our very own Rusty for making ffwd best of Calgary list!

Best professor

Ron Glasberg
Noel Keough
John Manzo

http://www.ffwdweekly.com/article/li...-results-9278/

kudos Rusty!

[WIGS]

Anyone checking out the *FREE* East Village Block party today from 4-10pm? It's being hosted by Market Collective and the Food Trucks will be there.
Live music right from 4-10pm.

http://www.sledisland.com/slog/2012/...ge-block-party

I have a beach volleyball game, but myself (Grant)and (Sead) the other FrontierMetropolis founder will probably be there afterwards for a couple hours.

[Bigtime]

Hmm, the wife is out on a "Moms night out", perhaps if Littletime is up for it we will walk over.

[Ayreonaut]

I walked the River pathway from Douglas Glen (well, Quarry Park) to downtown today. Wow, there are so many young moms pushing strollers in this city! Especially once I got closer to Inglewood, I would say they constituted half the people I passed.

I walked past EV but didn't pay attention to anything going on there. I was parched and b-lining straight to the Jugo Juice on 8th Ave.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by Ayreonaut

I walked the River pathway from Douglas Glen (well, Quarry Park) to downtown today. Wow, there are so many young moms pushing strollers in this city! Especially once I got closer to Inglewood, I would say they constituted half the people I passed.

You're welcome.

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

You're welcome.

Nice one.

I wanted to go to EV, but I had to have nap as I Sledded the night away and still went to work.

Just have enough time to fuel up and head to the Legion.


Caught No Sinners and Lou Barlow at Commonwealth and finished the night with The Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet. Great start to what looks like a wicked festival.

[Bigtime]

I didn't make it over to the EV thing yesterday evening, but pretty sure that I could hear it from our place.

[Radley77]

With the recent death this weekend on Harvie Passage, I have found the recent chatter about the inability of City of Calgary to enforce a ban on the Bow river infuriating. I'm on a dragonboat team (team has been in existence more than 10 years) that is on the Glenmore reservoir. The Glenmore reservoir has been shut down between June 6th to July 1st. Whereas, no ban exists on the Bow River. This has resulted in sailing clubs having to cancel competitions. Very hard to have competitive teams on the Glenmore in Calgary when you are dealing with a much shorter on the water season even though some teams train year round. IMO, there is much less risk of an accident on the Glenmore due to more experience clubs that are in operation and that the Glenmore has far less turbulence than the Bow River.

IMO, the Glenmore reservoir should be relatively more open than the Bow River, and that should implement partial (only registered\experienced clubs allowed) and full restrictions (noone allowed) for the public.

This is infuriating that people are dying because of regulatory loopholes (municipality and federal government cannot agree on jurisdiction of the river) and at the same time the City of Calgary is also making it so that experienced boating clubs cannot be as competitive on the Glenmore.

Article Glenmore Reservoir being closed:
http://www.canada.com/news/calgary/G...234/story.html

Article about how Bow River can't be closed:
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...989/story.html

[freeweed]

While I understand the frustration at the reservoir being closed, I'm not sure we really need a "ban" on the rivers. Quite frankly if a few idiots want to risk their lives knowing full well the danger (this guy's boat was apparently stopped and they were warned), then so be it.

What we do need is more education. A metric fuckton more.

This latest discussion about the Harvie Passage is infuriating me. When it was proposed, designed, constructed, teased as it was delayed - the entire story was "this is a way to make the river safe for recreation, and to eliminate the 'drowning machine'". Seemingly out of the blue however, it turns out it isn't at all safe for inflatable rafts - WHICH IS 95% OF THE RECREATION ON THE BOW.

I guarantee you that if you asked random Calgarians, 99% of them would say that they think the HP was designed to make it safe to raft over. Not "an advanced whitewater course" as is suddenly being claimed. Yes, the kayak section is off to one side, but the "gentler" course very much looked like it was intended for the primary users of the river. Now suddenly we're not supposed to use it?

What the sweet christ was the point of spending millions on something that doesn't do what it was intended to do - oops, I mean was apparently never intended to do? Did the average Calgarian think it was a great idea to spend all that money just so a handful of kayakers could avoid the drive to the mountains?

When the water gets lower later this summer, I sure as shit plan on running it in a rubber boat - I personally think they're being ridiculously over-paranoid here. My frustration comes from the fact that with this talk of "bans", I can totally see the city/province stepping in and banning rafts in a couple of years. Entirely defeating the purpose of the thing in the first place.

I'm amazed that absolutely no one in the media is questioning why we built this thing if it's being claimed just as dangerous as the weir. Because I sure as heck don't remember dozens of kayakers drowning in it in the past - it was 100% rafters.

[DizzyEdge]

Here's an article from April 2011

http://www.globaltvcalgary.com/harvi...418/story.html

notable quote:

The passage will also offer a world-class play area for kayakers and canoeists, as well as allow rafters to float from Bowness Park all the way to the southern edge of the city.

“And now you have a channel on river right where people can float down on inflatable crocodiles of whatever they want to do and it’s perfectly safe,” says Simon Coward, kayaking instructor at Aquabatics.

“And on the other side of the river you’ve got something that can challenge even expert level paddlers which is going to be sweet.”

That said, is it being claimed that it's not safe for inflatables period, or just during these high water level periods?

[MichaelS]

With it forecast to be 30 degrees on the weekend, does anyone think the river will be down to a more "calm" level by Sunday to do some rafting?

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Here's an article from April 2011

http://www.globaltvcalgary.com/harvi...418/story.html

notable quote:



That said, is it being claimed that it's not safe for inflatables period, or just during these high water level periods?

Not sure that Mr. Coward has the authority to say it'll be safe for someone on a inflatable.

I think the fuss on the weekend was from the high water levels not from the new design itself, if people are dumb enough to go out with the high water then we need to do something to prevent the fire department and the police from expending resources to rescue these people.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

That said, is it being claimed that it's not safe for inflatables period, or just during these high water level periods?

Again, the city might want to be just a smidge clearer then.

From what I read into it, the claim is it is not safe for inflatables EVER. The high water means it's not safe for ANYONE. The police are warning all craft away from the river, period - not just the passage. I see no mention anywhere of "avoid the Harvie Passage in your dinghy until the water recedes".

My personal belief is that someone f'd up, big time. Whether the city was sold on an unsafe design, whether they deliberately ignored that and just assumed it had to be safe, or whether later engineering studies have now shown "whoops! not as safe as we hoped for". And in today's society, where no one's ever willing to admit a mistake, we won't know - we'll just get the current "duh, of course this isn't safe for an inflatable raft" line.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

With it forecast to be 30 degrees on the weekend, does anyone think the river will be down to a more "calm" level by Sunday to do some rafting?

Highly doubtful - the water levels in the mountains are obscene right now and more heat will just continue to raise them. And it takes a while to flush this volume through Calgary. I'd guess a couple of weeks at least before the river is down to "safe" levels. Any more serious rain and I wouldn't be surprised if we're into August before the city labels it safe.

That being said, so long as you avoid the new drowning machine most of the river is still fairly safe. Fast, but safe. People are mostly having problems on the passage from what I've heard.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Not sure that Mr. Coward has the authority to say it'll be safe for someone on a inflatable.

Perhaps, but with stories like this constantly in the news for several years now you'd think someone at city hall might just have thought once that hey, maybe we should correct this misinformation.

I mean compared to the comments we're seeing this week - it's a complete 180 from only a year ago.

[Radley77]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Here's an article from April 2011

http://www.globaltvcalgary.com/harvi...418/story.html

notable quote:



That said, is it being claimed that it's not safe for inflatables period, or just during these high water level periods?

Oh snap... That's where the children will play...

I find the logical inconsistency annoying that the City of Calgary bans the Glenmore Reservoir which is a hell of a lot safer than the Bow River. Whereas the Glenmore reservoir is predominantly used by experienced teams that wear life jackets and include the Calgary Canoe Club, Glenmore Sailing Club, Calgary Dragon Boat Society. This year the Glenmore Reservoir and Calgary Canoe Club will be hosting the 2012 World Outrigger Sprint Championships.

The Bow River is predominantly used by the casual lazy rafter.

There is a huge difference in skill level and water conditions!

The City of Calgary had this news release "ban" about the Glenmore Reservoir:
http://newsroom.calgary.ca/pr/calgar...ed-234862.aspx

The following is a news release "advisory" about the Bow River after someone died:
http://newsroom.calgary.ca/pr/calgar...ng-236145.aspx

I've never heard of someone dying on the Glenmore Reservoir due to striking a partially submerged object. I think there has been about a dozen deaths near the weir over a century.

I don't think it's fair the way the City of Calgary treats experienced Glenmore reservoir users (some of which I have met are Olympic athletes and have the proper gear, training and experience) vastly different than reckless and ignorant Bow River users.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Perhaps, but with stories like this constantly in the news for several years now you'd think someone at city hall might just have thought once that hey, maybe we should correct this misinformation.

I mean compared to the comments we're seeing this week - it's a complete 180 from only a year ago.

Here's the thing that most people forget during spring runoff or other high flow conditions the class of rapids generally rises at least one class depending on the rapids and conditions it could rise more, so the 'Class II' on the river right becomes a Class III in high flow. So what might be safer for a raft now is still a significant hazard and should be treated as such rather than expecting the world to pad everything. It's time for personal responsibility, the city or any other level of government shouldn't have to warn you about every danger than possibly exists, if you see something on the river that your not sure about get out and walk it first, if you going to run head long into it you better be ready to take the risk. I think that all waterways in Canada should be user rescue i.e. the fire department isn't going to come pick you up if you fall out of your boat, you damn well better be ready to deal with it on your own at least for the first bit, this is what happens in the mountains, just because your in the middle of the city doesn't mean that the danger is lessened, these are natural bodies of water regardless of it's location you better be ready to deal with what ever comes up.

Originally Posted by Radley77

Oh snap... That's where the children will play...

I find the logical inconsistency annoying that the City of Calgary bans the Glenmore Reservoir which is a hell of a lot safer than the Bow River. Whereas the Glenmore reservoir is predominantly used by experienced teams that wear life jackets and include the Calgary Canoe Club, Glenmore Sailing Club, Calgary Dragon Boat Society. This year the Glenmore Reservoir and Calgary Canoe Club will be hosting the 2012 World Outrigger Sprint Championships.

The Bow River is predominantly used by the casual lazy rafter.

There is a huge difference in skill level and water conditions!

The City of Calgary had this news release "ban" about the Glenmore Reservoir:
http://newsroom.calgary.ca/pr/calgar...ed-234862.aspx

The following is a news release "advisory" about the Bow River after someone died:
http://newsroom.calgary.ca/pr/calgar...ng-236145.aspx

I've never heard of someone dying on the Glenmore Reservoir due to striking a partially submerged object. I think there has been about a dozen deaths near the weir over a century.

I don't think it's fair the way the City of Calgary treats experienced Glenmore reservoir users (some of which I have met are Olympic athletes and have the proper gear, training and experience) vastly different than reckless and ignorant Bow River users.

I see your point, I think that the reason they close Glenmore is the dam, if for some reason (heavy rain, high temperatures, etc.) the city has to suddenly reduce the reservoir level it becomes dangerous for users of regardless experience levels or equipment.

The police keep talking about jurisdictional issues, which Transport Canada has since debunked, it seems both would fall under the same section of law and the police should have equal powers over both, maybe it's time for the provincial/federal government to get more money in place to support the regulation of these waterways.