Speed limits

[manny_santos]

Something that bugs me when driving in certain parts of London is that everyone except me drives either way under or way over the speed limit, as if they are able to see speed limit signs I cannot see.

The most common problem is a speed limit of 50, where drivers think the speed limit is 60 or 70. The worst areas are:

Sarnia Road east of Wonderland
Riverside Drive, in its entirety
Hyde Park Road near Gainsborough
Springbank Drive east of Wonderland
Richmond Street south of Windermere to past the bridge
Oxford Street east of Cherryhill Blvd

And yet, in sharp contrast, on Fanshawe Park east of Hyde Park where the speed limit is 80, drivers think it is 60. I've seen drivers going as slow as 40 along there. And yet, when the speed limit drops to 70 and then to 60 before Richmond, people actually speed up to over 70.

[go_leafs_go02]

Yeah..i'm shocked of Fanshawe being 80..i drive 80..and yet..feel like I'm going too fast..since it is designed to be a typical urban arterial road.

But man, you live in Ontario..you know that you drive anywhere from 10-20 km/h over the limit...not including local roads, but yeah.

Riverside should be 60..it is impossible to go 50 on that road. Both my parents have been pulled over on that road,

Hyde Park Road also...i think should be bumped up to 70 in the areas it is 60..meaning north of Royal York Blvd..up to Hyde Park..down to 50 in there, and then up to 70 clear through to where the 90 begins by Sunningdale Road.

Living in BC now..and in Vancouver.. I miss driving fast..anywhere..105 on the freeway doesn't cut it for me.

[QuantumLeap]

The problem is that most roads are over-engineered. The speed limits don't reflect what people feel safe driving, because what people feel safe driving is usually 10-20 km over what the road has been built for/ and what has been posted. Beside the issue of whether people risk getting tickets, the issue is pretty well moot, since people will drive whatever they are comfortable driving, not what is posted.

In the long-term, engineers need to fix the roads that we have. Speeds over 50 km/h are not acceptable in creating quality public realm. Although some roads in the suburbs, flanked by long sound barriers, should perhaps be allowed higher limits, they shouldn't have been built in that disgusting manner in the first place, and should be redeveloped if possible, into "main streets" rather than than just thruways. Again, wherever this is possible, the roads should be rebuilt to be slower speed.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

But man, you live in Ontario..you know that you drive anywhere from 10-20 km/h over the limit...not including local roads, but yeah.

Riverside should be 60..it is impossible to go 50 on that road. Both my parents have been pulled over on that road,

Hyde Park Road also...i think should be bumped up to 70 in the areas it is 60..meaning north of Royal York Blvd..up to Hyde Park..down to 50 in there, and then up to 70 clear through to where the 90 begins by Sunningdale Road.

The easy solution is to simply raise the speed limits to 60 in some of these areas, and the City of London has done just that in a few areas in the past five years, most notably on Commissioners between Wharncliffe and Wellington. Within the past month they've also raised Springbank west of Wharncliffe to past Greenside Ave.

I have talked to enough people who live along Riverside who don't want it raised above 50, and I have to say I agree with them just because of the volume of low-density residential along there and nearby schools. Although police enforcement can be used and has been used there, as well as on Sarnia Road, there has to be some other solution.

Is it going to take a smaller version of those "speed humps" that have been used in Westmount? Or putting S-curves in these roads where feasible, like Dundas had in Old East for years? There is no easy answer in an already-developed area.

[QuantumLeap]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Is it going to take a smaller version of those "speed humps" that have been used in Westmount? Or putting S-curves in these roads where feasible, like Dundas had in Old East for years? There is no easy answer in an already-developed area.

You're right, these aren't the right solutions. What can be manipulated to slow traffic are the following:
1) lane width: consider older arterial roads, which have 9' lanes, versus some of the newer built ones, which sometimes have lanes as wide as 12'.
2) on-street parking: this is relatively foreign in London, but most big cities have on-street parking when its not rush hour. Driving past parked cars makes people slow down considerably.
3) removing turn lanes. The worst offenders, in my opinion, are those noxious continuous left-turn lanes. They essentially function as paved boulevards, separating opposing traffic from each other. If motorists have to slow down for turning traffic, they will move more slowly. Of course, turn lanes (left more than right) can still be used at major intersections.
4) widen sidewalks: pedestrians slow down traffic.
5) create bicycle-only infrastructure: ditto.
6) maintain trees close to the street, allow development closer to the street.
7) allow local streets and/or driveways to access the street.

Being an Old North boy, I think the stretch of Richmond between University and Oxford is the model of an arterial road in a suburban context.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by QuantumLeap

2) on-street parking: this is relatively foreign in London, but most big cities have on-street parking when its not rush hour. Driving past parked cars makes people slow down considerably.

Parts of Richmond south of Oxford now have that, at least in the evenings. I have to say, it has worked pretty well. If you've been to the Byron area they have this along Commissioners in the business area, and speed has never been a problem throughout the area.

7) allow local streets and/or driveways to access the street.

Unfortunately Riverside Drive already has this, and it doesn't seem to deter speeding. Riverside has the added issue of very few traffic lights compared to Oxford, and lights seem to have some impact on Oxford. I will admit though, the speed problems on Riverside are worse in the Oakridge area where there's turning lanes, versus east of Wonderland where it's only two lanes and more curvy.

I'd like to know why the speed limit on Horton drops to 50 barely east of the Wortley overpass. It would make more sense to keep it at 60 as far as Talbot.