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Old Posted Aug 24, 2013, 5:30 AM
Lorendoc Lorendoc is offline
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Laurelwood

e_r wrote: I have a question about the 'speakeasy' you mention in your post # 1 of the series. Would this have been at the same location
as the earlier Laurel Tavern? (if I remember correctly, you mention a curve in the road or something)


Laurel Tavern

http://www.hollywoodphotographs.com/



http://www.hollywoodphotographs.com/
__[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the kind comments e_r and BifRR, I am glad you liked the LMI posts. And thank you both for the recent pictures of Avalon and the Pasadena Bicycle Ladies (!).

The Lookout Mountain Inn burned in 1918. The Volstead Act (national prohibition) didn't start until January, 1920. So no speakeasy was needed up at the LMI, and none was needed after prohibition started, because the well-heeled locals had their own private supplies and likely discovered unexpected wine-making skills of their own.

I think the Laurel Tavern was where "Tavern Trail" is today, near the Country Store. It was associated with the Laurelwood Tract. This property ran up the east side of Laurel Canyon from Kirkwood almost all the way to Lookout Mountain Avenue.

Judging from the signage on the first picture, e_r, it seems like the Tavern doubled as a real estate office for the Laurelwood Tract and Mr. Alvaro A. Pratt would be just as happy to serve you a drink as he would sell you a lot from his Tract, finding one might just lead to the other.

The LAT says that Pratt, late of Salt Lake City, bought a lot in Laurelwood in 1910. Pratt is an old LDS name, and maybe he was only too happy to get out of bone-dry Utah and run a saloon. (Pure speculation on my part )
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  #16282  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2013, 6:17 AM
ProphetM ProphetM is offline
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Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post

both natural rock formations long gone.

http://margaretfisherinteriors.com/2012/02/avalon/

After looking at this, it appears the 'new' casino was built where the first casino was located. So why destroy Sugar Loaf?
I think perhaps the scale of the newer casino may be deceiving. It may be so much larger than the old one, that the footprint of the old casino only covers about half of the new one, and sugar loaf may have been practically right up against the side of the new building.

I visited Catalina Island for the first time a few weeks ago. If there's interest I can post up some pics of the casino once I get them captioned and uploaded. (I am very behind on my captioning!)

But, I do have one pic to add right now. For once, I am able to post up a personal family photo to this thread. Here are two of my aunts & a cousin in Avalon in 1956:


My own collection
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  #16283  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2013, 12:07 PM
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http://movie-tourist.blogspot.com/
I'm reminded of the Albacore Club...


Which was really the Tuna Club...
http://www.thelog.com/


USCDL
Per the USCDL, the Tuna Club building under construction, 1908--lower edge, left middle

USCDL


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/
Noah Cross's man meets Jake at the Albacore Club
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  #16284  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2013, 6:37 PM
3940dxer 3940dxer is offline
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Exploring Santa Fe Avenue, part 1.

In the last few months my wife and I have bicycled around L.A. a lot, with frequent trips downtown. In these explorations we soon realized that the easiest, flattest north/south routes were those closest to the L.A. River. For reasons of convenience and historical interest, one of my favorite downtown streets has become Santa Fe Avenue (named for the Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe line that once terminated there) and it's northern extension, Center Street.

This is an interesting if somewhat overlooked part of town. It's best known building was probably the amazing La Grande station, with it's Moorish domes, which has appeared here many times.



La Grande is long gone and I won't include a "now" shot because there's really nothing of interest, and seeing this location today just depresses me. But lots of great old buildings do survive along Santa Fe Avenue, and canvassing the area yields some nice surprises. And because it's so close to the river this street offers great views of nearly all the downtown bridges, from 1st St. down to Washington Blvd. (On a map you can see that Santa Fe Ave. is quite long, stretching from 1st all the way down to 92nd St., in South Gate -- but nearly all the good stuff is north of 30th St.)

Last weekend my friend Joe and I did a little photo safari by bike. Here are some of my favorites from our trip.

At Center St. and 1st (a short block east of Santa Fe), Joe introduced me to the James K. Hill and Sons Pickle Works Building. This is one of downtown's oldest surviving buildings, and it's huge!

The L.A. Conservancy writes:

"The Pickle Works Building is a rare, surviving example of Victorian-era brick industrial buildings in Los Angeles. The Pickle Works Building was built in 1888 for the California Vinegar & Pickle Company, later known as the James K. Hill & Sons Company. As with many industrial structures, the building was expanded over time, in several phases, until around 1909. The additions used the same structural wood frame system with brick masonry walls and matching design details. A variety of tenants have occupied various portions of the building throughout its history. In the 1980s and ’90s, it was known as the Citizens Warehouse and Art Dock, housing contemporary artists.

In 2005, the Pickle Works Building was determined eligible for listing in the National Register of Historic Places as a rare, surviving example of a Victorian-era brick industrial building.
The building sits next to the 1929 First Street Viaduct, which has been expanded to accommodate light rail. The Bureau of Engineering (BOE) purchased the Pickle Works Building to facilitate the bridge expansion, which required removing part of the building along its south end.

An agreement made in 2005 allowed the City to remove either 30 or 50 feet of the building and calls for the City to rebuild the south wall “in a manner consistent with the design of the remaining elements of the building.” A recent structural engineering report commissioned by the City states that this is feasible and provides recommendations for implementation."



http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/index.html


http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/index.html


In this shot that I took last week we look south towards the west side of the Pickle Works building, with its old window casements and loading docks.



This next one (taken from the 1st Street bridge) shows the south side of the structure, where a large section was removed to create a construction area for the bridge rebuild project.




------------------------------------------------------------------


A few blocks south at 215 S. Santa Fe, Joe and I stopped to admire the "Toy Building" (aka R. L. Craig Wholesale Grocers), ca. 1907. Inside it's loft space now -- big shock -- but the exterior looks original and is nicely preserved.




------------------------------------------------------------------


At 544 Mateo St. (near Santa Fe and 4th) stands this old gem:






------------------------------------------------------------------


The 6th St. / Whitter Blvd. bridge is the longest span downtown, stretching about a half mile between Mateo Street on the west side of the river, and Boyle Avenue on the east. From the eastern side of the bridge I noticed the so-called Pico Gardens district, an odd mix of industrial and residential buildings between the river and the 101 -- perhaps a worthy topic for another day. Here's a shot from the western side of the bridge, looking north. You can just see Santa Fe Avenue at the left edge of the frame, bending north and ducking under the 4th Street bridge.



------------------------------------------------------------------


I was happy to find that not only does Engine Company No. 17 remain, but also its southern neighbor, the Heinz 57 building, with traces of its "ghost sign" barely visible. Here's a then and now.



http://www.lapl.org/




------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, check out this attractive old charmer at 2675 S. Santa Fe, just inside the city of Vernon. History unknown, but it seems to be a warehouse at present. Would love to know more about this one.


(All photos mine except where noted. Part 2 will appear soon.)

Last edited by 3940dxer; Aug 24, 2013 at 8:36 PM.
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  #16285  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2013, 7:12 PM
Tourmaline Tourmaline is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorendoc View Post
e_r wrote: I have a question about the 'speakeasy' you mention in your post # 1 of the series. Would this have been at the same location
as the earlier Laurel Tavern? (if I remember correctly, you mention a curve in the road or something)


Laurel Tavern

http://www.hollywoodphotographs.com/

The Lookout Mountain Inn burned in 1918. The Volstead Act (national prohibition) didn't start until January, 1920. So no speakeasy was needed up at the LMI, and none was needed after prohibition started, because the well-heeled locals had their own private supplies and likely discovered unexpected wine-making skills of their own.

I think the Laurel Tavern was where "Tavern Trail" is today, near the Country Store. It was associated with the Laurelwood Tract. This property ran up the east side of Laurel Canyon from Kirkwood almost all the way to Lookout Mountain Avenue.

Judging from the signage on the first picture, e_r, it seems like the Tavern doubled as a real estate office for the Laurelwood Tract and Mr. Alvaro A. Pratt would be just as happy to serve you a drink as he would sell you a lot from his Tract, finding one might just lead to the other.

The LAT says that Pratt, late of Salt Lake City, bought a lot in Laurelwood in 1910. Pratt is an old LDS name, and maybe he was only too happy to get out of bone-dry Utah and run a saloon. (Pure speculation on my part )

Have enjoyed your posts and thank your for the research behind them. That goes for 3940dxer, too.(e.g., http://skyscraperpage.com/forum/show...postcount=6558 )

Regarding prohibition, I have gleaned from this thread that enforcement was, at best, irregular, even in the populated areas. I do not know who might have had jurisdiction over the Laurel area, but it is commonly understood that the Sheriff was too undermanned to handle the entire county and consequently, the nearby Sunset Strip was notorious for its disregard of Volstead. With all of the train traffic coming and going around the nearby Sherman/West LA area, there was probably a constant flow of forbidden juice, for anyone unable to make their own in the Laurel area.





With your extensive background maybe you can tackle a few more questions about the area.




I don't pretend to grasp Laurel's history and geography (having only visited a long long time age), so my questions may be a mis-mash of misdirection and ignorance.

You observed that most myths may contain a grain of truth. The Laurel Canyon Association's history of the area says: "A popular myth is that the grounds around the Inn were stocked with exotic animals for hunting, but this has not been verified. The Inn burned down in the 1923, and the site was rebuilt with a home for actor Lew Ayres - the original Dr. Kildare." http://laurelcanyonassoc.com/EarlyHist.html Forgetting about the unconfirmed lions and tigers hiding in the area, and what might have been a second secret fire (1918 vs 1923), is there any possibility that the Lew Ayres' "spread" was large enough to include the same or similar location as the Lookout MI, even though the two places might have been treated as separate parcels? You seem to have debunked the notion that Lookout M Inn was at 8782 Appian Way, and instead located at 2355 Sunset Plaza Drive, but I am wondering is it possible that Ayres or another owner of the property upon which Ayres' estate was built also owned the property you have identified as the former Lookout Inn?

Looking at the surveyor's marker, did the one pictured below possibly replace an earlier marker? Or mismarker? As reliable as surveyors may be, wonder what might have happened if the prior surveyor got things wrong? (If you don't believe mistakes can happen, just ask Mayor Shaw. ) I also wonder if certain well-heeled property owners couldn't have made significant improvements that they neglected to report. After all, the area has been called "Wonderland"?


http://imageshack.com/scaled/large/703/fmja.jpg




Marker date is '52 or '32?
http://dkse.net/david/Lookout/summit.marker.JPG
http://wwww.dkse.net/david/Lookout/G...yon-estate.jpg


I've read that Doheny's Franklin Canyon reservoir supplied the DWP with water. I assume it was also supplying electricity to Charley Mann's 1913 Trackless Trolley? And, how do we know this was the first Trackless Trolley in America?

It has also been said that those street cars only ran for 5 years to a tavern on Lookout Mountain Avenue. Because this would have been prior to the date of the fire, it makes me wonder if the there weren't several unaccounted for makeshift taverns or inns, or one or two being confused with each other. This might also include confusing an Inn with a Tavern, or even a stand. I am aware that the same tavern on Lookout M Ave., was either rebuilt or transformed into Tom Mix's Rancho d'logs, but I can't help think that some of the stories will never be fully known. I say this, having reread the 1946 newspaper article that mentions prior owners, Actress Bessie Love and C.J. Milliron. Curiously there is no mention of Mix. And, while you probably can't judge a book by its cover, or a department store owner by the design of his Fifth Street Store, it is hard to picture CK Milliron homesteading in a rustic log cabin. Of course, there are log cabins and there are log cabins that go by the name of Ponderosa.

Your posted tavern photo looks to be of wooden construction, but not necessarily of hewn-logs. Is the term "log cabin" merely a misnomer or a synonym for unfinished wood?


From 3940dexer's prior post on the subject http://skyscraperpage.com/forum/show...postcount=6319











Lew Ayres at his unidentified "home-garden."
http://acertaincinema.com/wp-content...ome-garden.jpg


Lew Ayres at Grauman's premier of Grand Hotel.
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics28/00063991.jpg

http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/ima...ogers-1933.jpg


Lew in later life, long after looking out for Laurel?
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...8PQJ9F97MM.jpg


Undated photo (probably late 40s) of Milliron's Fifth street Store.
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics17/00008055.jpg

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics49/00059144.jpg

Last edited by Tourmaline; Aug 24, 2013 at 8:43 PM.
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  #16286  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2013, 7:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3940dxer View Post
Finally, check out this attractive old charmer at 2675 S. Santa Fe, just in the city of Vernon. History unknown, but it seems to be a warehouse at present. Would love to know more about this one.


Great building. Haven't run a cross a vintage shot, but this was the Vernon branch of the Hellman Bank, becoming a branch of Merchant's Trust in the mid '20s.


More on Heinz on Santa Fe Avenue:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=10023

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=10032
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  #16287  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2013, 9:37 PM
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http://www.flickr.com

This is how the intersection of LaCienega and Santa Monica looked in the late 70's. I lived on Olive just north of Bekin's. The building on the far left was Flipper's Roller Disco, a former bowling alley. Hidden around the corner was/is Barney's Beanery. The trashy street and smoggy skyline bring it all back. I recall standing on the roof of my building watching dozens of helicopters circle overhead as airtankers flew in low to dump water on a fire raging in the hills above the Strip. It felt like Apocalype Now.
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  #16288  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2013, 10:23 PM
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yesterday and today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaster View Post
http://www.flickr.com

This is how the intersection of LaCienega and Santa Monica looked in the late 70's. I lived on Olive just north of Bekin's. The building on the far left was Flipper's Roller Disco, a former bowling alley. Hidden around the corner was/is Barney's Beanery. The trashy street and smoggy skyline bring it all back. I recall standing on the roof of my building watching dozens of helicopters circle overhead as airtankers flew in low to dump water on a fire raging in the hills above the Strip. It felt like Apocalype Now.
Blaster: Here's your intersection in 2012.


GSView
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  #16289  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2013, 10:29 PM
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[QUOTE=CityBoyDoug;6243653]Blaster: Here's your intersection in 2012.

Thanks, Doug. I drive by from time to time. Hollywood, West Hollywood, all of LA has cleaned up its act since I first moved here. I remember the Hollywood sign in shambles, ragged and torn, letters falling down. It was symbolic of the area's decline in the 70's. There are a lot of things I miss from those days and a lot of things I don't.
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  #16290  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2013, 10:45 PM
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When I lived on Hancock Avenue, the old 'Flippers' was an industrial looking Esprit de Corp flagship store.
-lots of unpainted cement, metal catwalks painted black and little robots on chain conveyors that traveled up and down the racks to retrieve shoes & clothing-
__

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Aug 24, 2013 at 11:51 PM.
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  #16291  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2013, 11:11 PM
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Farther east on Santa Monica Boulevard, past the Coast Theatre and Irv's Burger's was a fantastic old-fashioned bar called the Raincheck Room. A lot of actors hung out there. In reaction to Barney's Beanery and its "Fagots Stay Out" sign, the Raincheck put up a sign that read "Farraguts Stay Out." Not sure what that meant, the bar was straight (one of the few in the neighborhood) but it was an accomodating place and I had many a great night there. I think the Raincheck closed in the mid to late 80's and is the present site of O Bar. I wish I could find a picture of it.
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  #16292  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2013, 11:49 PM
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L.A. Metro Library Announcement

Just thought I'd share this message from "The Source" LA Metro's News blog since so many of your find resources at places like this:

"Calling all transit and history fans! Hundreds more “Then & Now” historic L.A. transit photos available here! by Kenn Bicknell

It's a beautiful thing when Southern Californians take pride in their fascinating and diverse history. This past weekend the Metro Transportation Library & Archive logged its 3,000,000th view on our online Flickr photo gallery (yes, 3 million in less than five years). http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolibraryarchive/

Over here at The Source, the reaction to "then and now" photos has prompted the Library & Archive to share its own version of historical images compared to the street scene today.

Our Library has selected and uploaded over 200 photos to Historypin, a social media site that maps images and mashes them up with a chronological data layer so you can view photos of a particular place AND time. With the local transportation conversation ramping up month by month, we know this is a great way to engage our community in the past AND present.

Sample of 6th and Broadway: http://www.historypin.com/photos/#!/...ab:streetview/
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  #16293  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2013, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
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I think perhaps the scale of the newer casino may be deceiving. It may be so much larger than the old one, that the footprint of the old casino only covers about half of the new one, and sugar loaf may have been practically right up against the side of the new building.
You're probably correct in saying the first casino was much smaller than the casino we know today.


ebay


the first casino overview.

thecatalinaisland.com



-construction of the second casino. (still difficult to compare)

unknown



If need be, we could measure them both. How, you ask?

Well believe it or not, the first casino is the main aviary at Catalina's Bird Park!!

colapublib.org
__



-a very famous visitor at Catalina's Bird Park.

cursom perficio

ProphetM, that was a great photograph of your two aunts and cousin on Catalina Island. -thanks for sharing-

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Aug 25, 2013 at 12:48 AM.
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  #16294  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2013, 12:47 AM
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ok, I just had an idea.

Here is a comparison of the two casinos from the same altitude.



google aerials

As expected, the art deco casino is much larger than the original casino.
__

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Aug 25, 2013 at 1:18 AM.
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  #16295  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2013, 12:53 AM
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Flipper's!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaster View Post
The building on the far left was Flipper's Roller Disco, a former bowling alley.
Ah, Flipper's. I LOVED that place. At last, a roller-skating rink that wasn't foul-smelling and decrepit. We went there a lot while I was going to school at SC.
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  #16296  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2013, 1:01 AM
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-a larger view of Flippers, Santa Monica Blvd. & La Cienega, early 1980s.

ocdom



from Charlie's Angels episode, 'Angels On Skates". Freddie Fortune is fictional.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073972/
__

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Aug 25, 2013 at 1:46 AM.
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  #16297  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2013, 1:35 AM
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snapshot from moving car, late 1970s. La Cienega Lanes (prior to Flippers)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32196921@N06/6513661139/

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  #16298  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2013, 1:41 AM
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boarded up . I like that cocktails sign.

Nick Faitos at flickr
__

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Old Posted Aug 25, 2013, 3:09 AM
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Sometimes I wish this forum had a "like" button. There are so many great posts I would LOVE to at least acknowledge but I can't without having to "reply with Quote" or otherwise use a quick quote, which is not attached to the original message and is often overlooked or ignored. Likewise, something I post may be "liked" by some of you out there, but ignored completely because no one takes the time to acknowledge or you've already moved on to the next big thing. Just Sayin'
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Old Posted Aug 25, 2013, 3:41 AM
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Sometimes I wish this forum had a "like" button. There are so many great posts I would LOVE to at least acknowledge but I can't without having to "reply with Quote" or otherwise use a quick quote, which is not attached to the original message and is often overlooked or ignored. Likewise, something I post may be "liked" by some of you out there, but ignored completely because no one takes the time to acknowledge or you've already moved on to the next big thing. Just Sayin'
My main forum hangout is the Lounge at Ars Technica; threads there (which are more streamlined than here) usually move pretty fast and purely congratulatory posts are not the norm. There are tons of posts I find fantastic, most of them really, but I feel like I'm cluttering up the thread if I say so without having something else to contribute at the same time. So let this just be a blanket 'thank you' to all the folks who post their stuff, especially those who go the extra mile and go 'out in the field'. I've been on web forums for over 13 years - I've probably visited a couple of dozen for various periods of time - and this thread is the only place outside my normal hangout at Ars Technica that has kept me coming back to stay current almost every day, for years. Because it's so consistently awesome.

So, *like*. ^_^
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