Gateway Discussion: Port Mann Bridge/Hwy 1/RapidBus

[DKaz]

I can see them reopening King Edward in 12 weeks. First they build the outer two spans, close King Edward and move the roads over (less than 1 week), dismantle the overpass (1 week), have a earth mover/excavator continue to remove the dirt below while they put in the new centre span above (1 week if they're well prepared before hand to put the spans on) then 9 weeks to finish the road top. It may take an additional six months to move Highway 1 back to the middle span but at least King Edward will be up and running. I wonder if Woolridge will be closed in the meanwhile?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by DKaz

As fuel prices continue to soar as well as imported food prices, the ALR will start to make sense. We need to grow our food here. Forward thinking.

If only the same forward thinking applied to our transportation system...

Exactly. And this will apply to many more cities worldwide, if they have arable land in their districts. With the population growing exponentially, and large-scale migration to "big" cities Vancouver quoted as big, bacause a lot are much bigger: Sao Paulo, Mexico City, Tokyo of course, but many in developing countries or even developed countries (London, Paris, Essen- Dortmund-Duisburg ...)
.. the list goes on.

Studies have shown that large cities with some arable area within the city limits, or even small amounts of it, largely consume produce grown within the city limits, yes. Rooftop gardens, mini lots, strip plantation...
HOWEVER - this only occurs when the general popluace is aware of doing this, and a large percentage do it.

Where this is difficult to do: Sao Paulo, perhaps, Los Angeles? .... please correct me if I'm wrong... trucking it in may be the main solution.

But if a percentage of designated agricultural land is used wisely, and small yards, or even rooftops (don't laugh, it's being done).

British Columbia is now considered one of the "have not" provinces. For years we paid into the equalization program. Ottawa gave Quebec Mirabel, and even some projects in Ontario were funded. (let me do my research on that and post again; this computer is slowing down on me)

Anyway, It's OUR TURN TO GET PAID.We are due for massive allocation, as we paid into the program for years, and need and deserve the same funding as Mirabel for upgrading Vancouver, and stimulating and modernizing its major western city; and transit, taking it seriously and doing it is so necessary. I think the first next step is joining the Millenium to the Canada Line ad City hall, and going under Broadway as far west as possible. To UBC? It has been looked at.

So put the screws to the mxxxxxxxxxxxxin Ottawa, or have we already tried?

[xd_1771]

LINK
The destruction of 104th avenue eastbound in this area is underway...

104 Avenue eastbound will be reduced to one lane just prior to the 104 Avenue/160 Street off-ramp
intersection; however, this traffic will have a new dedicated right turn lane to ensure traffic continues to flow
(see bullet #3 on map).

Dedicated right turn lane or not, it is still being reduced to 1 lane, uselessly, in one of the busiest sections of 104th - closest to the Highway. Though the PDF is unclear as to what will exactly happen, this would be completely unacceptable and I can see the jams taking over the 152nd-160th area by storm during the afternoon rush (oh did I mention how bad it is already?)

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by DKaz

I can see them reopening King Edward in 12 weeks. First they build the outer two spans, close King Edward and move the roads over (less than 1 week), dismantle the overpass (1 week), have a earth mover/excavator continue to remove the dirt below while they put in the new centre span above (1 week if they're well prepared before hand to put the spans on) then 9 weeks to finish the road top. It may take an additional six months to move Highway 1 back to the middle span but at least King Edward will be up and running. I wonder if Woolridge will be closed in the meanwhile?

woolridge will have to be for a while - they have opened up some access for some of the businesses though - its very awkward but they can be accessed - IKEA has a new light to enter its parking from west bound lougheed which is kind of annoying when one is going eastbound and its like traffic lights every few feet - well thats how it feels...

[jlousa]

trofirhen what are you going on about?, BC was a have not province for a few years but that was in the past and we are back into the have category thanks to Gordo.
Please come back and visit, I'll even buy you a Japadog.

[xd_1771]

Ladies and gentlemen, it is just as I feared.
104th Ave. Eastbound is going to be in the shimmies for the next year between 156th and 160th. I had an opportunity to drive by the new temporary setup at the 104th/off ramp intersection this morning, and the setup is in fact - as I had feared - a useless narrowing to one lane and a yield lane to turn right onto 104th again. This setup which will cause lots of traffic problems due to the merge and yield, as well as weaving into the left lane for those accessing Hwy 1 westbound, will totally wreck the afternoon rush hour for many people. How it is set up is like in this diagram:

    104th
   WB   EB
   |||  ///
   | | / /
   |||// |
   |   /|| <<YIELD
   /  | ||
  /   | ||
 ///| | ||
/// ||| ||
H   | | ||
W   ||| ||
Y   | | |i\  <<<Merge
1   ||| |i|
    | | |i|
    ||| |i|
    | | | |
    ||| |||
    | | | |
    ||| |||
     104th

I think they really underestimated the traffic volume that has to go through here in the afternoon. This is going to be a total traffic mess! It is bad enough here already, and it is about to get much, much worse. Travellers who have to go here during the afternoon rush hour, prepare for a huge traffic mess that extends westward many blocks. Locals to this area (myself included), brace yourselves for extra traffic along local streets.

Alternate routes to use to avoid this:
156th > 100th > 160th
156th > 102b > 158 > 101a > 160th
150th > 100th > 160th (Most recommended if traffic on 104th extends past 156th, 154th, and/or 152nd)

How I think they should have done it:

    104th
   WB   EB
   |||  ///
   | | /  |
   |||//__|
   |   /||| <<Traffic-light controlled right turn, TWO lanes
   /  | | |
  /   | |||
 ///| | | |
/// ||| |||
H   | | | |
W   ||| |||
Y   | | | |
1   ||| |||
    | | | |
    ||| |||
    | | | |
    ||| |||
    | | | |
    ||| |||
     104th

This would've kept the original configuration and not reduce 104th to 1 lane - uselessly - at that very heavily travelled section. I would much prefer this over a single lane yield.

I have not seen this area in the afternoon yet but I can imagine it is very, VERY bad. I am predicting that, during the afternoon rush, 104th EB will back up to no less than 148th street under the Guildford overpass every day and at peak as far as 144th-140th. Backups on 104th EB have been, until recently, enticed by the 154th and 156th intersections and go as far as the 152nd intersection - further in rare cases.

This set up will be in place for one year. We must do something. I am beginning to sort out a protest to the BC MOT & The Gateway Program and a petition to reverse this or at least change it to something similar to the previous setup, with TWO right turn lanes (as depicted in the second ASCII diagram I provided)

UPDATE ON TRAFFIC SITUATON AS OF 3:15-3:45: Backups on 104th eastbound extend past 152nd under the Guildford overpass to at least 150th. Fully stopped parking lot between 154th and 156th. There is a noticeable increase in traffic on 154th southbound at the left turn as well as on 100th EB. The 154th SB left turn @ 100th, normally backed up a block or 2 to 101-101A due to conflicts with traffic coming north out of the school, is backed up to 102A/past the Guildford Heights Park today - a block longer. I have seen all this with my own eyes.

[DKaz]

Pics or it never happened.

[xd_1771]

I'll have to go by there again tomorrow afternoon and remember to bring my camera...
Looks like as of 4:36 it's moving a bit smoother (google maps traffic), but later tonight it could get really fishy

[vivagt]

I came across this guy on YouTube, he does good video of the Port Mann progress regularly.

http://www.youtube.com/user/bcnewsvideo

[cairnstone]

S|orry double post

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Yeah, imagine that, they build a new road and land prices go up. And some of the ALR land along the Fraser is "unused" and would be put to better use as industrial instead of growing some weeds. A lot of that land seems to be perfect for hot houses (judging by the vast number of them). It might increase utility and productivity if some of the land owners were able to sell of small portions of their property to raise capital to build more green houses.

Plus throughout the article she mentions other alternatives, without ever mentioning what one of them is. Not even close to hinting at an alternative. If you can't even come up with the alternatives, let alone defend yourself from possible counterpoints, it's not very convincing.

The land around Delta has alot of things going on that limits it use

1: Delta does not like greenhouses and has bilaws to limit growth of them and with a high dollar there is little reason to grow as most of the production goes south of the border.

2: There is a fair size chunk of land that is leased to ducks unlimited and other organizations for wild life habitat. There was signs back 20 years ago.

3: The land each side of the BC rail line is/was zone industrial for future industrial parks in Delta. Some of this land is held up in land claims or was sold off when the liberals came to power.

4: Lack of processors for produce grown. The only source of producer or markets are Lucerne, fresh potatoes in spring, Save on foods and other large retailers, and |Blueberries

5: Delta municipalty sits at or bellow sea level. So limits crops that can be grown

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

By the same token, many of the other goods we import and their distribution will become more expensive, making local manufacturing more economical as well. Space should be reserved on major trucking and transportation routes to make the manufacture and the distribution of goods as efficient as possible. No?

The largest sector of BC farming is Greenhouse farming. I believe in 2004 the Greenhouse vegetable sector was worth about $214 million, off the production in just over 550 acres. Compare it to $90 million off 21,000 harvested acres province wide for field vegetables.

Would it not make sense to allow certain farmers in advantageous locations to sell off unused portions of their land at a premium so that they can raise capital to build more green houses for year-round food production at the same time allowing industry to expand and create more jobs and take advantage of public built infrastructure?

Greenhouses create low paying jobs for new Canadians. THey do not reduce transportation costs. As they all grow for export. The greenhouses are no longer considered family farms. The 4 larger operations have greenhouses both sides of the border and some in Mexico. Some are indivisually owned while others are public companies.

We have very low light levels here in the winter so light needs to be added to grow the crops. Delta has bylaws limiting the amount of light that can be used and the times. This limits the crops that can be grown

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

Delta municipalty sits at or bellow sea level. So limits crops that can be grown

On the other hand it makes it ideal to grow crops rather than covering it with high-value buildings that will be at risk to tsunamis, floods and rising sea levels.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

On the other hand it makes it ideal to grow crops rather than covering it with high-value buildings that will be at risk to tsunamis, floods and rising sea levels.

Especially since no insurance policy (that I know of) will cover buildings against floods or tsunamis.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by jlousa

trofirhen what are you going on about?, BC was a have not province for a few years but that was in the past and we are back into the have category thanks to Gordo.
Please come back and visit, I'll even buy you a Japadog.

Are we? Wonderful! I thought Gordo had spent us down the drain, leaving an enormous public debt.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by vivagt

I came across this guy on YouTube, he does good video of the Port Mann progress regularly.

http://www.youtube.com/user/bcnewsvideo

Nice!

Thanks!

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Are we? Wonderful! I thought Gordo had spent us down the drain, leaving an enormous public debt.

how so?

unless a union pro NDP kinda person they might see it that way

[SpongeG]

I got stuck in this yesterday - I didn't find it that bad as i was in no rush but it was a pretty long time to go a very short distance - what was really annoying is they have two lanes going towards lougheed and you are not allowed to make left turns onto the hwy #1 west bound exit - and sure enough some ahole sat there blocking the one lane of traffic cause they were disobeying the rules... so the traffic flow was even more slowed up thanks to idiots drivers like that

Gridlock grates on Coquitlam drivers


By John Kurucz, Coquitlam NOW April 6, 2011 1:20 PM


Traffic patterns will change as part of bridge and highway construction. Drivers will be following an amended route as depicted with green arrows in the new alignment.
Photograph by: Illustration courtesy, Transportation Investment Corporation

METRO VANCOUVER -- A change in traffic patterns on United Boulevard resulted in widespread traffic gridlock Monday, causing motorists and officials with the City of Coquitlam to demand answers.

At issue is the intersection of United Boulevard and Mary Hill Bypass, where westbound motorists would typically follow the bypass straight across United Boulevard onto Highway 1.

That traffic flow changed Monday, as a new off-ramp and intersection to the north was created much to the chagrin of at least one motorist.

"Normally it takes me 12 minutes to get home -- it took me 45 minutes to get to the Lougheed Highway and an hour to get home on Monday night," said David Smith, who works on Fawcett Road and lives just across the Port Mann Bridge in Surrey. "It's insane."

The issue was raised at the end of Monday night's Coquitlam council meeting, as staff briefed council members on the "very serious and significant congestion" and how it could potentially affect emergency responders.

"We will be treating this with a high sense of urgency," said Bill Susak, the city's manager of engineering and public works. "Even though the project is not under our control, it has very significant impact to our systems and also to our businesses."

"The traffic situation on United Boulevard is not very good," Mayor Richard Stewart added. "It's disastrous, as several councillors have pointed out."

Max Logan, director of communications with the Port Mann and Highway 1 project, said Tuesday that signage had been placed on the route in advance of the pattern change.

He added that the new traffic flow will be in place until the end of the year to allow for the construction of an overpass connecting the Mary Hill Bypass to Highway 1 and Lougheed Highway westbound.

"I think essentially the situation is there's a lot of people who drive that route every day and it becomes a habit -- they're not necessarily looking for the signage," Logan said.

"And so what happened is people stuck to the old route, they got to United Boulevard, they realized they couldn't cross to get to Highway 1, so they turned right on United Boulevard and then tried to turn left to get onto the new access to Highway 1. Those intersections are not configured to accept that traffic movement and so there were delays as a result of that."

...

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/technolo...#ixzz1ImiibTGm

[DKaz]

Initial teething pains. My wife made a mistake at Gaglardi Way interchange awhile ago, had to go eastbound to Brunette then turn back to head westbound. It'll be all good in a few days.

Maybe they should have a traffic control person with a sign directing Hwy 1 bound people to go right of the diversion.

[xd_1771]

Judging by the guy's travel pattern (he is going to SURREY and Highway 1 EASTBOUND, not westbound - which would indeed require a right turn to United NB), I am guessing they removed one right turn lane or completely removed both, to United Blvd NB, altogther - something that would've been a huge mistake. Right turn lanes there would be a most absolute necessity at that intersection due to the kind of travel patterns that occur and the fact that most of the blockage comes from traffic heading for the westbound 1, blocking off everyone else. It just shows how large the disregard of right turn lanes can be in BC and how stupid it has turned out to be.

Logan states that the traffic problem is related to people turning right from the left turn lane and trying to turn left from there onto Rte. 1, but this might be wrong. The guy going to Surrey delayed 3x would have more than likely have instead had problems with the right turn to United NB.

Does anyone have a picture or layout diagram of the road layout at that intersection currently? If it is right that the right turn lanes there were indeed affected, I'm taking this personally to the MOT. The disregard for right turn lanes in this province has infuriated me largely enough but this is crossing the line, even if I don't travel there that often... or ever.