Gateway Discussion: Port Mann Bridge/Hwy 1/RapidBus

[invisibleairwaves]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Do you use a cell phone? Big brother is watching you!

I can turn off my cellphone, or leave it at home. Mandating an insecure tracking system on all cars is a different matter altogether.

[jlousa]

Everytime you do outside someone can follow you, why would they want to though? Heck maybe we should remove our license plates from our cars as they could be used to identify us.
Personally I just think it would be easier all around to do it that way.

[DKaz]

It seems no girders went up last night for the westbound HOV offramp, perhaps they're still doing prep work.

[go_leafs_go02]

You know, I'm quite surprised they're widening between 176 - 208, when that section of traffic is flowing well almost every day at all times even with the 2 lanes, but yet major congestion happens between 232 & 264 almost every day.

Curious to see that as soon as they're done with gateway, they'll focus immediately on widening to Abbotsford and reconfiguring the 232 & 264 St interchanges. Be nice if they included that within Gateway.

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

You know, I'm quite surprised they're widening between 176 - 208, when that section of traffic is flowing well almost every day at all times even with the 2 lanes, but yet major congestion happens between 232 & 264 almost every day.

Curious to see that as soon as they're done with gateway, they'll focus immediately on widening to Abbotsford and reconfiguring the 232 & 264 St interchanges. Be nice if they included that within Gateway.

Maybe a climbing lane/long merge lane is required for that stretch.

[DKaz]

Spoke too soon! A few girders went up last night. I just drove under it this morning, pretty cool stuff.

[Mininari]

Wow, those ramps are going to be impressive when complete. Still, seems very expensive for being just for the HOV lanes.

Are the HOV lanes going to stretch east/west on Grandview Highway for a significant distance? Did the COV agree to that?



Can't wait to see the girders go up on the large-radius Eastbound on-ramp at the Cape Horn interchange...

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Spoke too soon! A few girders went up last night. I just drove under it this morning, pretty cool stuff.

It looks to me like a whole support structure is still unbuilt at the near (west) end of that ramp. I don't see how they will be able to finish installing those girders without it.

[go_leafs_go02]

Being from Ontario - I love how wowed you people are by these ramps and structures, while I've grown up with stuff like this in Southern Ontario as long as I can remember.

However, it's completely identical to the mockery Ontarians and Quebecois got this week from BC residents over their reaction to a moderate earthquake. It's like how snow in Vancouver makes big news while snow anywhere else in Canada is ho-hum.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Being from Ontario - I love how wowed you people are by these ramps and structures, while I've grown up with stuff like this in Southern Ontario as long as I can remember.

No kidding. And these ramps are relatively puny compared to the many massive structures along the 400-series in ON.

Here in BC, generally speaking, MoT designs its rural twinned highways on the cheap with a 100 km/hr design speed, concrete median barrier, and usually a RAD (Rural Arterial Divided) standard. The SFPR and the S2S have even lower design standards with an 80 km/h design speed.

Even Alberta designs its rural highways with a 130 km/hr design standard, a wide depressed median with a RFD (Rural Freeway Divided) standard with fully paved 10-ft, left-side shoulders.

AB and ON also designs its highways for the future with wide overpass spans permitting future lane expansion. Here in BC - not so much.

[Mininari]

Hey, this is a big deal for us BC people
I never used to realize just how antiquated highway 1 and the interchanges were until I visited anywhere else.

You are right about the new construction design standards... but you can't discount the fact that the terrain is much more conducive to a 130km/hr design speed throughout the Prairies, and Southern Ontario than it is in most of BC. The SFPR and S2S highway are badly constrained by topopgraphy, and last acquisition costs, so 80km/hr is a compromise. A 4-lane S2S freeway would be nice, but its really not necessary.

That said, having just got back from a month in Germany (avec rental car), I have to say I am really envious of their autobahn network. It functions extremely well as a regional highway system -- and operates well to bypass major centres, BUT NOT act as a major artery into the downtown. Of course, gas is $1.47Euro a litre for regular... but they get good roads for their buck. Everywhere we drove, a bridge was being replaced... or 4-lane was being 6-laned.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Zassk

It looks to me like a whole support structure is still unbuilt at the near (west) end of that ramp. I don't see how they will be able to finish installing those girders without it.

I think the camera angle may be deceiving as to the distance involved.
But it is weird that compared to the eastbound ramp there is only one span for the westbound ramp.

We discussed it a while back in the thread, but we think that since the Grandview overpass (foreground of the shot) is not being rebuilt for this phase of the project, the HOV lane will land on the "inside/southside" lane of the Grandview overpass (at the porta-pottie) instead of on the "outside/northside" lane (which wold be consistent with the eastbound HOV lane).

Conceivably, though, they could reorient the lanes of the Grandview exit (shift them south a bit) to allow the HOV ramp to touch down on the "outside.northside" lane of the Grandview overpass, but it's hard to tell if that would introduce a tight curve into the offramp.

Using a webcam pic:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by Mininari

Hey, this is a big deal for us BC people
I never used to realize just how antiquated highway 1 and the interchanges were until I visited anywhere else.

You are right about the new construction design standards... but you can't discount the fact that the terrain is much more conducive to a 130km/hr design speed throughout the Prairies, and Southern Ontario than it is in most of BC. The SFPR and S2S highway are badly constrained by topopgraphy, and last acquisition costs, so 80km/hr is a compromise. A 4-lane S2S freeway would be nice, but its really not necessary.

That said, having just got back from a month in Germany (avec rental car), I have to say I am really envious of their autobahn network. It functions extremely well as a regional highway system -- and operates well to bypass major centres, BUT NOT act as a major artery into the downtown. Of course, gas is $1.47Euro a litre for regular... but they get good roads for their buck. Everywhere we drove, a bridge was being replaced... or 4-lane was being 6-laned.

The Lower Mainland as a whole does not have any terrain that you wouldn't see in Southern Ontario with the escarpment or the like. Sure it's hilly, but there aren't any steep grades that aren't matched in Southern Ontario for a freeway.

I'm fine with the Coquihala as it is, I'm fine with the Sea-to-Sky. It's just the joke of standards for anywhere around Vancouver. Proper investment would defnitely permit the SFPR to be an urban freeway with an 120 km/h design speed. Sure it might cost more, but oh wait - we put stop-lights on freeways to save money.

[DKaz]

Besides the fact that we're building on peat moss and other unstable ground, even through Surrey there is a lot of prep work such as backfilling just to be able to build a road. The original HOV lanes cost $600 million... Now it's $3 billion to widen it another one or two lanes and build a bridge... granted we have to build a whole bunch of new overpasses this time around but that's a lot of money just to widen a highway. If this was all done in the 50s, it wouldn't have cost quite as much. We should go back to 1940 and tell the federal and provincial governments, "Dude, the population in Vancouver is going to grow to over 2 million by the year 2000, build proper freeways now!" The provincial government is going to laugh and say no, and the federal government will laugh and say no and throw their money at Ontario instead, just like they did originally. The west coast got the short end of the stick. Come on Stephen Harper, at least be useful for something!

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Being from Ontario - I love how wowed you people are by these ramps and structures, while I've grown up with stuff like this in Southern Ontario as long as I can remember.

Please remember; unlike Southern Ontario, the public mentality here went "against the flow" for the longest time, and therefore this is all rather new to us, since we relied largely on the arterial road system, plus some small "freeways" (more like parkways, really)

We're only really catching up now, because at 2.2 million (the size of Toronto in about 1965) we have to.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by DKaz

The original HOV lanes cost $600 million

You added one too many zeros. The actual price tag was $60 million.

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/archive/p.../1997/0748.asp

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

You added one too many zeros. The actual price tag was $60 million.

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/archive/p.../1997/0748.asp

"reserved for vehicles carrying three or more people". Interesting, I didn't know it was ever planned to be 3+

[Smooth]

I think if you look closely at those HOV signs you can see that there is actually a 3rd person that has been painted over. I think they changed their mind about it being 3 people just before it opened.

[Zassk]

Yes, I remember the HOV signs had already been uncovered with 3 heads in the car (but the new lanes not yet opened) after taking numerous weeks and weeks to install them all. Then the ministry announced "surprise, 2 passengers ok!" and literally overnight every HOV sign was changed to have 2 heads in the car.

[officedweller]

From the webcam today:

Can't tell if it leads to the left or right of the Grandview overpass bridge:



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