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  #1  
Old Posted: Jun 25, 2009, 3:51 PM
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Which large Australian city has the best public transportation system?

Hi,

I'm planning on spending next summer in Australia and I am trying to decide which large Australian city to go to. A huge factor for me is transportation - I won't be driving and I generally prefer dense, walkable pedestrian-friendly cities with good public transit systems (who doesn't, right?)

I am ashamed to say I know very little of Australian cities' infrastructures. In the US we have rather poor mass transit systems in all but a handful of large cities, and generally the level of mass transit development corresponds to the population density of that city (though, there are obviously exceptions).

So, I spent some time on Wikipedia looking at Australian cities' densities and looking at their transportation networks, and I was surprised to find out the 4 largest cities have rather low densities, but I imagine in Australia that does not necessarily translate to less of an urban feel, because judging from google street view + pictures I've seen of Sydney for example, it definitely does look quite urban (DUH! ), despite having only a 5,330/sq mi density. So I suspect the post-industrial/suburbanization phase in Australia did not take as heavy of a toll on Australian cities as it did on American ones (let's face it, we also had severe racism-driven district redlining/white flight here), so the low density there I imagine does not necessarily or at all indicate a lesser urban quality of life (which may then translate to poor walkability). Okay, I'm seriously digressing here and I obviously pulled the last few sentences out of my a**

So anyway, I also noticed that Sydney doesn't have a subway system, only several commuter rail lines. Now, I'm sure that despite all of this, Sydney is quite walkable + obviously amazing in every way, it's the largest city in Australia, so it has to, right? The thing is though, Sydney is also not my #1 choice, because of the high cost of living, so ideally I'm looking for something a bit cheaper if it can also offer a reliable mass transit system.

So, I was thinking Melbourne - it seems like the city has a rather extensive light rail network and it seems pretty walkable, it's still huge, and I'm hoping it is at least somewhat cheaper than Sydney?

I obviously have not done enough research on this and I clearly don't know what I'm talking about, so I would appreciate any input from Aussies or anyone who has knowledge on the subject.

What large Australian city (preferably 500,000+) would you say offers the best bang for buck so to speak, and has a good and extensive transportation system, where one can comfortably live without a car? If in your opinion the answer is Sydney, please give me your second choice as well - as a matter of fact I would appreciate a ranking of any sort. Thank you and God bless Australia
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  #2  
Old Posted: Jun 25, 2009, 4:05 PM
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Melbourne.
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  #3  
Old Posted: Jun 25, 2009, 9:31 PM
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Australian cities have Metropolitan Rail(commuter rail) networks that basically operate like subways in the inner cities.

I would go with Sydney or Melbourne, although all Australian cities have pretty good transit in the inner cities.
Its the suburbs where it sucks if you relying on anything other then the metropolitan train network.

Check out the routes before hand, etc before you pick a place and all that, because suburban transit in Australian cities is pretty bad with a lot of services ending at 7PM, etc for buses.
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Old Posted: Jun 25, 2009, 11:14 PM
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I dated a girl from Sydney about four years ago, and she said that Melbourne had much better transit.

I haven't been to either, and can't comment.
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Old Posted: Jun 25, 2009, 11:17 PM
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Melbourne has extensive rail, it also has the world's largest tram system. Commute mode share for the Melbourne area is low (about 10%). The share is somewhat higher in Sydney.
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Old Posted: Jun 25, 2009, 11:34 PM
miketoronto miketoronto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Will View Post
Melbourne has extensive rail, it also has the world's largest tram system. Commute mode share for the Melbourne area is low (about 10%). The share is somewhat higher in Sydney.
This has to do with the very poor transit service levels outside of the inner cities. Melbourne is just started to get buses operating latter in the suburbs, but the majority of services still end very early and many don't operate on weekends, and most operate on 60 min service levels.

So you gotta watch out where you pick to live and keep it to the inner cities if you are going to rely on transit for everything.
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Old Posted: Jun 26, 2009, 3:30 AM
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Melbourne also has some sweet stations to enjoy too.

btw, I've got a dream to visit Australia some day too, and I'm targeting Mebourne before Sydney.
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Old Posted: Jun 26, 2009, 3:35 AM
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Next summer? you should be on a plane now, you will never see cheaper airfares in your lifetime.
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  #9  
Old Posted: Jun 26, 2009, 4:12 AM
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Melbourne has significantly better transit than Sydney, just based on my couple of weeks in each (four years ago). I wouldn't necessarily say that Melbourne is cheaper though. Comparing apples to apples it probably is (like sized and quality hotel to hotel or apartment to apartment), but you have much more choice in Sydney.
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  #10  
Old Posted: Jun 26, 2009, 4:21 AM
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I would say Melbourne would be a good pick. Not only does it have a more extensive rail network, but I seem to recall reading that it's the sporting and arts centre for Australia.

I would love to spend a couple years living there myself.
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  #11  
Old Posted: Jun 26, 2009, 12:55 PM
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Have you made a list of the stuff you want to do first, to compare your transport options with? The results could be different from what you were expecting, and this question might not have even been necessary.

I'm only saying because Australia has a lot of cool stuff and being stuck in one major city would get boring I'd imagine.
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  #12  
Old Posted: Jun 26, 2009, 1:29 PM
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What does "spending the summer" in Australia mean exactly? Long-term holiday? Working holiday? Extended stay?

Confused.

Anyhow Sydney is generally more expensive than Melbourne. Sydney has a good inner-city bus network, Melbourne has a good inner-city tram network and you're likely only to use the trains if you're commuting from the burbs (Melbourne or Sydney) - why on earth would you want to do that?

If you're looking at rentals in Melbourne/Sydney - www.realestate.com.au www.domain.com.au

recommendations in Melbourne - dense urban inner-suburbs:

- Balaclava/St Kilda East (excellent distance-wise to the city and all the local amenities you're ever going to need - 2 high frequency tram routes, both end up in the city, one takes you via St. Kilda and has a station on the Sandringham line which is the fastest way into the City, pretty cheap - 1 bedroom flat goes for about $200-250AUD per week - look at Share options though - much cheaper, big Jewish area (bakeries!) and Carlisle St is a personal favourite high street).

- Windsor/Prahran (closer to the city on same train line as Balaclava, it's at the bottom/gritty end of Chapel St, still relatively cheap area, excellent amenities, Chapel St tram blows chunks but all the cross tram routes are good - I prefer this end to South Yarra end of Chapel which is where most of the show ponies play)

- Richmond (one of the densest suburbs and also the greatest diversity of people (ethnicity and socio-economic group) - big range of stuff available here, Bridge Road is shoppers central and Victoria St is Little Saigon, I'd personally stay away from North Richmond (Victoria St) - a bit scummy, but if scum is what you're looking for - eh knock yourself out), Best to look around Bridge Road or anywhere near Burnley station (lots of trains all throughout the day), Bridge Road and Victoria St trams are pretty slow). Richmond is a big suburb - western Richmond is walkable distance to city, eastern (Burnley) is best accessed by Train.

- Fitzroy - "Melberlin" (cringe, yes I know) - alternative, excellent PT (2 tram routes), walkable distance to City (15 min max), right near Carlton Gardens, great nightlife on Brunswick St, very alternative area, bit scummy around Smith St, stick closer to Brunswick St in your search) - can be cheap, can be expensive to rent around here.

- North Melbourne, a favourite area of mine, (quieter, good local strip on Errol and Victoria Sts, #57 tram is ok, but its like Fitzroy, you'll find yourself walking into City rather than tramming it, hard to find places usually cos you're competing with students who go to the adjacent University of Melbourne and at the other end of the spectrum you're competing with Doctors/Nurses/Medical Professionals who work in the adjacent hospitals (Royal Melbourne, Royal Childrens and Royal Women's hospitals are literally next to the University)).

Middle ring suburbs with relatively good quality PT / amenities (don't even look at these until you've exhausted all options above):

- Carnegie - a diamond in the rough, sees trains every 15min during the day, higher in peaks, 20 min at nights, good local high st, around the corner from CHadstone if you feel the need to visit a large shopping centre (mall to you).

- Camberwell - blue ribbon Liberal (conservative) area, but dont let it frighten you, high quality train frequencies into the city (15 min during day, 5-6 min in peaks with many express trains), a long tram route which evenutally takes you to the city, but takes you through other inner 'hoods first, lots of wealthy mansions/households back from Burke Road (main drag) - expensive-ish to live (And eat!) in the area, but can find bargains - oparticularly in adjacent HAwthorn East).

- Glenferrie - same train line as Camberwell, excellent local high street and good mix of people in the area cos of Swinburne University, relatively cheap ( I think), tram route is another long which eventually connects you with Malvern and Balaclava.

- Brunswick - inner north, Lygon St and Sydney Rd trams Upfield line, good transport links, excellent local high streets - very ethnic (Southern Euro)

btw "suburb" in Australia = neighbourhood in N.A.

HTH.
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  #13  
Old Posted: Jun 26, 2009, 1:52 PM
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  #14  
Old Posted: Jun 26, 2009, 2:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioGuy View Post
I would say Melbourne would be a good pick. Not only does it have a more extensive rail network, but I seem to recall reading that it's the sporting and arts centre for Australia.
I very much want to see some Aussie rules football when I go. It's easily my 2nd favorite 'football' sport, behind American football. Soccer and rugby are for sissies.
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Old Posted: Jun 26, 2009, 9:47 PM
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Thank you for your replies!

I think I'm gonna go with Melbourne, though this was obviously just a preliminary thing to get a few opinions from real people , I'm still gonna do a lot more research, etc. I have a lot of time until next summer... I might not even get to go...

Quote:
Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
So you gotta watch out where you pick to live and keep it to the inner cities if you are going to rely on transit for everything.
Yes, I do plan to live in the city/inner city, NOT in the suburbs, like I said I won't be driving, so I'll certainly get something in the city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by llamaorama View Post
Have you made a list of the stuff you want to do first, to compare your transport options with? The results could be different from what you were expecting, and this question might not have even been necessary.

I'm only saying because Australia has a lot of cool stuff and being stuck in one major city would get boring I'd imagine.
Well, I do plan on living in just one city, but the big adventurous thing which I hope I'll be able to do is see all major Australian cities by train - well, not all major cities, probably won't go all the way up to Darwin or even Brisbane, but I was planning on taking the train from Melbourne to Sydney if I do end up living in Melbourne, and then taking the amazing Indian Pacific rail service to Perth, spend a few days there and fly back.....

Thanks again everyone for your input

Last edited by Yankee; Jun 26, 2009 at 10:00 PM.
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Old Posted: Jun 28, 2009, 10:00 PM
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Moving this to the transportation forum.
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