King Eddy/Cantos Music Project - Page 4

jeffwhit · #61 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 6:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

Yeah, it's definitely intriguing. It feels very simple, but feels like it would have a lot of beautiful subtle details. Can't wait to see more about it.

It's Nouvel, his stuff is often much more than meets the eye, example:

roryrory on flickr

God lies in the details.

shogged · #62 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 6:50 AM**

So after watching the videos, listening to what the designers had to say about their projects, my initial impressions were swayed quite a bit. So at the end of the day, any one of those would be a great asset to our city. They each offer something unique and just get me excited thinking about having that kind of cultural space as an anchor in the east village!

So in order of my preference...

1) Allied - This was by far the least visually striking of the 5 designs, in fact my first impression was like "gold and white box? MEH" After watching the video and seeing the concept... the playable building, the focus on the heartbeat (concert space) and the silence places, it all struck a chord (haha) with me as a great design both architecturally and for practicality. While I don't think this is going to gain us international recognition for having this great stand-out building, I think the benefits gained from the concept far out way any loss of international fame

2) SPF - This was a tough call, because the next choice I think is pretty equal in terms of striking looks and function, but I really like the 33 foot high gap over the road, leaving room for light. I think this will make for an excellent street presence, complete with the seasonal opening in the side of the lobby. The wooden staircase is striking on its own, and I do like the concept of music though out the building.

3) DSR - This is again, a beautiful design with alot of function built in. Highlights are the atrium staircase with the individual instrument rooms, which i'd assume are for lessons? I was having a hard time wrapping my head around the practicality of large numbers of such small rooms, but I guess they have a plan in the end. I also liked the use of the old king eddy as a concert hall, the design of which I really liked. Again, this really could have been in 2nd place, I think its really great!

4) S+P - Out of all 5, this was my favorite in terms of overall look. I think its awesome, I love the angles, I love the double bridge, and I love the materials and colors. Only problem I have with it though, is it just doesn't feel like a music centre. To me, this is an art gallery! I just couldn't get past the fact when watching the videos and comparing the designs, so thats why i've placed it at number 4. At the end of the day though, if it just came down to wanting a great looking building for Calgary, 2 3 or 4 would satisfy my needs!

5) Nouvel - I think this is a great example of how height does not = better. This to me is just a giant wall that blocks off the east village from the rest of downtown. Its also kind of hard to tell if it really is a giant wall on the one side, or if there will be windows of some kind. I also think it looks quite awkward sitting on top of the old king eddy in original form. Bottom line, I just picture it sticking out like a sore thumb. Highlights, I like the idea of the public space, but I think the other designs are going with the street presence as their public space, which I tend to enjoy more. Rather drive by a great glass lobby than the side of a skyscraper perched atop an old, smaller footprinted (sic) hotel. I also like the section of the tower that jots out from the structure, giving a kind of viewing portal.

Just to restate it though, at the end of the day i'd be happy with any of the 5!

Bokimon · #63 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 6:54 AM**

Jean Nouvel Workshop of Paris:
I give my lowest rating because IMO I thought he was half assing it. I know he is one of the best but maybe because of the projects requirements not suiting his design criteria or a so-so design team, I didnt feel too hot about this one.
Its 23 storeys, construction is restoration and vertical expansion directly above the Eddie building which at that height gives it more of a flatiron profile. How the hell do they fit in all the programming with such a narrow building with stairs and elevator cores...
Presentation by his henchment, Bartron, Bertrum something French did not feel as indepth and educating as the others and also it was the shortest.
Nouvel was in NYC defending his badass MOAB tower which if you havent seen, THAT is a pritzker prize worthy design!
I also think the team probably didnt even visit the city to study the site and the Cantos foundation as some of the other firms had done.
This building is to be like a piano where the surface(facade) opens up a little for the public to see inside. That is about it for creativity, the interiors are alright but tight because of restricted floorplans as he did not make use of all the available land. The screen thingy is a large facade with a huge artwork etched on it, it also may be for projection purposes as well for concerts etc.
The other site would be a plaza and future phased developments of this project. Galleria at the top floor does offer great views of the city but it will be backlit in the evening.
Ironically the presenter said that the municipal building blocked the 8ave corridor. I know he wanted this as a landmark which you can see from all angles but that just isnt so on the human scale of things. I dont think Cantos is looking for a highrise to suck the people away from the streets but I could be wrong, slightly at best..
I give it 2 stars..

Saucier+Perrotte of Montreal.
They used regional geography from the rocky mountains to the Bow river as a driving force for their design ideas. The chunky slab type of massing and the fresh clear openness of the water and a balance somewhere to make this building a topographical type of landmark in the city. Perrotte also used zigzaging travel points to purposely lose the crowd within the structure as the various uses would be placed between the Eddie, new building and the double crossing bridges over 4th st to make every part of it fully acessible.
To me this kinda looked like a grand piano abstract because of how its massing was arranged. He also showed an accoustic demonstration as how sound travels and how he can tame it thru accoustic design to keep it rich and long lasting as it reverberates throughout the building.
I give this 5 stars, THIS and DSR were my favorites. Perrotte also spoke very well and shared his ideas quite well for another reason why I felt wowed.

Zolton Pali of LA:
Anybody remember one of the courthouse proposals where the building sits over the street as its joined one end to the other, this is how he did it.
His firm did a great job presenting and each of the designers had insightful ideas and they also spent lotsa time at Cantos learning and studying about what they are and how they work. Their massing is interesting as its stacked with angles openings and large punchout openings for views.
The smaller openings are varying sizes of glazings in the wall construction to control the amount of light infiltrating the building. The black cladding would harness solar energy from the sun for sustainable uses..
Also the main floor common area the entire glazing at the atrium opens outside on nice days to allow natural air and open concerts or shows.
Theres also a lounge/bar for afterhrs socializing to help keep the neighborhood alive at night.
I give this 4 stars. His presentation was more of a storey journey and that got me bored otherwise I love this one too. Excellent ideas for materials.

Allied Works of Portland:
I felt meh about this because he talked alot about materials, and something. I lost focus by this point as I was tired. The firm does alot of restoration and expansions involving old buildings and I thought their past stuff were ok and nothing too special. A moderate type of firm.
The shape seen in the renders is more of a collection of some kind of material placed together in groups with indentations as openings.
There are also some kind of etches/mural works too. Material wise it does look a bit plain I didnt feel too excited and it looked kinda weird and botanical like. 3 stars...

Oh ya, I also have pictures of floorplans, elevations and building sections of some of these projects as well as renders not shown on this thread which should give a better idea to a few of these. I wont be able to post them until the weekend so hang in there..

MarkL · #64 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 8:31 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffwhit

Sorry the pics didn't work out, except for this one of Jean "Big Brother" Nouvel:

CorporateWhore · #65 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 12:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shogged

1) Allied - This was by far the least visually striking of the 5 designs, in fact my first impression was like "gold and white box? MEH" After watching the video and seeing the concept... the playable building, the focus on the heartbeat (concert space) and the silence places, it all struck a chord (haha) with me as a great design both architecturally and for practicality. While I don't think this is going to gain us international recognition for having this great stand-out building, I think the benefits gained from the concept far out way any loss of international fame

To me that all sounded like the typical cliche mumbo jumbo that all architects like to throw around with every project. If you look at their previous work, everything sort of feels similar, nice, but without anything truly interesting to engage you. The more I see and hear about this proposal, the less impressed I am.

Bigtime · #66 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 1:40 PM**

Ok I've slept on it and had the chance to read over some great views on the proposals from all of you on here, paying particular attention to the couple of forumers that were lucky enough to be there to get a more "complete" picture of the proposals.

So here is my ranking:

1) SPFa (I can understand Jeff's sentiments about them going for broke on this project. I LOVE that main staircase interior.)

2) S+P (I love the look of the design)

3) DSR (which was reminding me slightly of the ROM Crystal in Toronto in a good way)

4) Nouvel (a proposal I really want to see more details of to make a more accurate judging)

5) Allied (subtle, but could grow on me with time if it is chosen)

AUM · #67 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 2:32 PM**

My only reason for not putting Nouvel at the top is that is project focused more on the architecture as an icon instead of the essence of Cantos making it the focus. There were some interesting elemets to his project...however, the downside of a tower is it begins to isolate elemets. the other schemes that kept to a lower rise more dense arhcitecture fell more in line with the East Village plan and also will have a better opportunity to engage the street and pedestrian realm.

Innersoul1 · #68 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 3:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shogged

I second that!

KONYS · #69 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 3:47 PM**

The more I read about it, the more the Nouvel is growing on me. At first I thought it was very disappointing. It is a shame that we don't have better images, especially of the west side with its "fragile, diaphanous full height image that shines like a warm coloured magic lantern at night."

I think so far I have to rank them:
SPFa
DSR
Dr. Evil
S+P
Allied

earthclaim · #70 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 5:30 PM**

After sleeping on things I think so far I would rank them:

1) DSR - the images from the Herald don't really do this one justice, it is also the most innovative for display of the collection
2) S+P
3) SPFa - This one keeps growing on me. For some strange reason I haven't quite warmed to the wooden staircase/atrium (at least not yet) and I worry that it might end up being something of a light block to the sites North of it.
4) Nouvel - this has some great subtle detailing which redeems it, but I am really unsure of the huge blank wall and it probably has the weakest interface of all the designs to the old King Eddy portion.

Not sure quite where to place Allied, this is quite a subtle sculptural design and materials could make or break the project - with the right materials this might end up being my favorite, with the wrong materials easily my least favorite. This one also has the weakest connection between the two sites, the +15 in it just seems like a tacked on necessity to me rather than as an integral part of the concept.

CorporateWhore · #71 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 5:31 PM**

Im thinking the Diller Scofidio proposal will look very similar in tone to Alice Tully Hall in NY. It's a very handsome building, if not necessarily a show stopper. It tends to look better and more dramatic in real life than it does here in these photos....the entrance area is quite beautiful.

Bigtime · #72 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 5:41 PM**

A thread about this project has popped up on Calgarypuck, now we can get some opinions outside of us architecture geeks.

Wooster · #73 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 5:54 PM**

That was my Calgarypuck alterego - Bunk

I am alway curious to hear the opinion of the hockey crowd on stuff like this.

Bigtime · #74 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 6:02 PM**

I had no idea you were Bunk, another alias uncovered on the internets!

Already some comedy gold in the reponses, especially the tongue-in-cheek comments about building interchanges instead!

Bokimon · #75 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 6:05 PM**

Somebody should make a poll about these proposals so we can vote for which one we think should be the chosen one..

You Need A Thneed · #76 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 6:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wooster

That was my Calgarypuck alterego - Bunk

I am alway curious to hear the opinion of the hockey crowd on stuff like this.

I was wondering, the posts looked too similarly formatted to be different people.

Bigtime · #77 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 6:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokimon

Somebody should make a poll about these proposals so we can vote for which one we think should be the chosen one..

Wooster started a poll in the Projects and Construction forum.

You Need A Thneed · #78 Posted: **Jul 24, 2009, 6:41 PM**

It might be nice to have a poll outside of the Calgary forumers, to get one where the whole forum can comment.

O-tacular · #79 Posted: **Jul 25, 2009, 3:02 AM**

WOW! All I can say is that the bar has been raised and then some! I think my two favs would have to be the SPF and then DSR proposals. I'm also curious to see more of the Nouvel interior. Allied's building looks like it belongs in ancient rome and Saucier's is kind of blah with the finishes.

This is gonna take me forever to catch up on all the posts.

trueviking · #80 Posted: **Jul 25, 2009, 4:33 AM**

what the hell?!!!...where did this come from?!

this is why it pisses me off that this forum is split up into these navel gazing sections....i have no idea what is going on in other cities anymore.

what is this?....who's paying for it?....what's a 'national music centre'?...what is the function of the building?

it seems the budget is exceptionally low for those proposals, but thats just a detail i suppose....$55 mil doesnt buy you all that much these days.

S&P definatly the best, followed by SPF (never heard of them)...the others are mediocre....nouvel might be better with more detail.

only in calgary would that be touted as a renovation of a heritage building...what does the building look like now?

forget the bow.....this is an exciting proposal.....how likely is it to get done?...whats the process for construction?

awesome stuff....we need more of this in canada.

anything else interesting going on in calgary that i need to know about?...damn