PHILADELPHIA | The Development Thread VIII - Page 258

Cro Burnham · #**5141** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 1:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

Very nice... is this really the Granary? Nice. Better than what I imagined.

Looks like it - see the Barnes in the back?

ScreamShatter · #**5142** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 1:34 AM**

http://www.citypaper.net/blogs/naked...f=facebook.com

Do you think this means there is potential for that School District Building to become part of the casino?

Cro Burnham · #**5143** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 1:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyscraperGuru

(Philadelphia is now the UPS's major East Coast hub, take that New York! Philadelphia is also becoming a major coffee port). But, how bout some Skyscrapers?

Too bad the coffee shipping and package delivery industries don't particularly give a crap for downtown office space.

aro1419 · #**5144** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 2:06 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

If you think Graduate Hospital's success is based on the character of the residents, you're sorely mistaken. Point Breeze, puleaze. Graduate Hospital is a success because of the lack of supply in Rittenhouse and it's proximity to Rittenhouse. Point Breeze is only even relevant because now Graduate is filling out. I worry if rents drop too far, then the incentive for developers to keep on chugging in these outlying areas will dry up.

I'm sorry, you misunderstood me with this. I meant that people are attracted to the newer residents in the gentrifying neighborhoods, not the old ones. It is the group of new residents in this neighborhoods who are attracting other new residents because they are cleaning up the neighborhoods, making them safer, and opening up new businesses. Unfortunately, this is not appealing to the old residents. Oh well, I guess not everyone is always a winner...

SkyscraperGuru · #**5145** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 2:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

Too bad the coffee shipping and package delivery industries don't particularly give a crap for downtown office space.

Well yeah, wasn't implying that.

summersm343 · #**5146** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 3:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

http://www.citypaper.net/blogs/naked...f=facebook.com

Do you think this means there is potential for that School District Building to become part of the casino?

There is only one thing I have to say about this... and pardon my french.

Fuck you Harrisburg.

Hopefully a Phoenix will rise from these ashes. Here's to hoping

EastSideHBG · #**5147** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 3:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

http://www.citypaper.net/blogs/naked...f=facebook.com

Do you think this means there is potential for that School District Building to become part of the casino?

This is extremely disappointing and saddening, and I fear could kill any momentum that may be building in attracting families into the city.

For all of its great things, the city sure is a failure in some MAJOR categories.

summersm343 · #**5148** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 3:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

This is extremely disappointing and saddening, and I fear could kill any momentum that may be building in attracting families into the city.

For all of its great things, the city sure is a failure in some MAJOR categories.

While absolutely terrible indeed, this could be exactly what Philadelphia public schools needed. Why do we need one big school district who manages all public schools throughout the entire city? Don't you think several districts each managing a small portion of schools will be much more convenient? I hope this happens.

EastSideHBG · #**5149** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 3:44 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

Fuck you Harrisburg.

The typical Philadelphia response: "It's not our fault, someone else must be to blame! Someone else needs to come save us while we continue to toss money down the drain!" From someone who has a lot of room to talk because I have lived outside of the mighty metro of Philadelphia (and this is not meant to be sarcasm btw, the metro is a VERY important piece of the state as we all know), the state no longer has any interest in bailing the city out of its messes...and rightfully so. Besides the obvious arguments, the state has MANY messes on its hands right now.

State funding is one thing, but being expected to pick up the pieces time and time again for completely incompetent and inept city leadership for DECADES is another.

And it's funny how the same folks from Philly who will stand there with their hands out will turn right around and say, "Screw them, let them fail! Why should we give them any money?!?" when it comes to Harrisburg City's current woes, Pittsburgh's, failing towns in its own metro...

summersm343 · #**5150** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 3:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

And it's funny how the same folks from Philly who will stand there with their hands out will turn right around and say, "Screw them, let them fail! Why should we give them any money?!?" when it comes to Harrisburg City's current woes, Pittsburgh's, failing towns in its own metro...

If I could I would give millions to the school district of Philadelphia. So... I hope this wasn't aimed at me.

EastSideHBG · #**5151** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 3:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

While absolutely terrible indeed, this could be exactly what Philadelphia public schools needed. Why do we need one big school district who manages all public schools throughout the entire city? Don't you think several districts each managing a small portion of schools will be much more convenient? I hope this happens.

But the problem is this plan in its current form shifts WAY too much burden on the private sector. Many charter schools are hard to get into, and now it would be smart to shift even more burden onto them? How many parents are going to want to move their kids into A) even more overcrowded public schools. And let's face it, Philly public schools are hardly known for their stellar education now, so pack them in even tighter and see what happens or B) having no guarantee at all that your child will even be able to get into a school.

Do you know what I see the end result being? Even more city tax dodgers...people who will be living in the city but paying their taxes elsewhere because their official residence on paper will be some relative's place outside of city limits, just so that their kid(s) can go to A school. More money being sucked out of the city, when that is the last thing it needs...

EastSideHBG · #**5152** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 3:52 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

If I could I would give millions to the school district of Philadelphia. So... I hope this wasn't aimed at me.

I think you may need to reread my comment, particularly the next sentence after the one you put in bold, as it seems as if you may have missed my point.

3rd&Brown · #**5153** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 4:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

A) even more overcrowded public schools. And let's face it, Philly public schools are hardly known for their stellar education now, so pack them in even tighter and see what happens

The district has 50,000 vacant seats. I'm not sure how that qualifies as over-crowded.

The only place in the city where schools are crowded at this point are at the elementary schools in the NE. And there, the district still plans to move forward with some facility expansions.

And to the extent that individual classrooms are crowded, it could be because the district is fully staffing half full schools when it should be shutting those schools to divert extra resources (i.e. teachers) to schools which truly need them.

Cro Burnham · #**5154** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 5:24 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

The district has 50,000 vacant seats. I'm not sure how that qualifies as over-crowded.

The only place in the city where schools are crowded at this point are at the elementary schools in the NE. And there, the district still plans to move forward with some facility expansions.

And to the extent that individual classrooms are crowded, it could be because the district is fully staffing half full schools when it should be shutting those schools to divert extra resources (i.e. teachers) to schools which truly need them.

I have to wait and see, but I tend to agree: hopefully, this cost cutting will eliminate alot of overhead (bloated central admin, overpriced janitorial, underutilized, costly-to-operate buildings) that will enable more resources to be channeled into teaching. Also, the plan seems to incorporate more accountability on the education side. There's so much waste in public services in this city, if this begins to address that, it could be a chance to shake loose some dead wood that has been soaking up public resources and offering little in return.

Jelly Roll · #**5155** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 4:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

http://www.citypaper.net/blogs/naked...f=facebook.com

Do you think this means there is potential for that School District Building to become part of the casino?

I am not sure how I feel about this. On one hand it appears that the current system is broken but I have no clue if this will eventually help fix it.

Zoot · #**5156** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 7:39 PM**

1441 Chestnut is owned by "CHESTLEN DEVELOPMENT LP." A google search led me to one of their development partners (Colgate Development) that lists the project with a Q4 2012 groundbreaking. There is also a rendering of the old Waldorf Astoria design with a W now affixed to the top. Cope Linder is listed as the architect - the same architect as the Waldorf Astoria (and their site still has it listed as the Waldorf). The site also says that it will be part hotel and condo. Didn't the slow sales of the Ritz teach them anything? In this market, luxury condos require a great location and views, which this site won't have (at least not in a premium price range).

http://www.colgatedev.com/philadelphia.htm

McBane · #**5157** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 7:41 PM**

How much worse could the schools get? Hopefully, they just put an end to bussing and allow neighborhood schools to develop and grow around the communities they serve. No reason why my local high school (Roxborough) should be one of the city's most violent when in fact, Roxborough is one of the safest neighborhoods in the city. Bussing is a waste of money, brings in kids who trash the community (because they don't live there), and destroys any incentive for middle class Philadelphians to send their children to public schools.

Cro Burnham · #**5158** Posted: **Apr 25, 2012, 7:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoot

1441 Chestnut is owned by "CHESTLEN DEVELOPMENT LP." A google search led me to one of their development partners (Colgate Development) that lists the project with a Q4 2012 groundbreaking. There is also a rendering of the old Waldorf Astoria design with a W now affixed to the top. Cope Linder is listed as the architect - the same architect as the Waldorf Astoria (and their site still has it listed as the Waldorf). The site also says that it will be part hotel and condo. Didn't the slow sales of the Ritz teach them anything? In this market, luxury condos require a great location and views, which this site won't have (at least not in a premium price range).

http://www.colgatedev.com/philadelphia.htm

Hmmmm . . . not sure this really qualifies as a big time credible developer. Tend to agree with WG5 that this is unlikely to happen, at least anytime soon.

aro1419 · #**5159** Posted: **Apr 26, 2012, 12:44 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

Hmmmm . . . not sure this really qualifies as a big time credible developer. Tend to agree with WG5 that this is unlikely to happen, at least anytime soon.

I don't think that this development would be impossible because the developer isn't a big time Philadelphia firm. After all, everyone has to start somewhere and according to their website, this developer built the Residences at the Ritz-Carlton, which obviously got built. Besides, if the developer apparently is incapable of getting this project done by themselves, I'm sure that Starwood is more than capable and helping them getting it done.

Cro Burnham · #**5160** Posted: **Apr 26, 2012, 1:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by aro1419

I don't think that this development would be impossible because the developer isn't a big time Philadelphia firm. After all, everyone has to start somewhere and according to their website, this developer built the Residences at the Ritz-Carlton, which obviously got built. Besides, if the developer apparently is incapable of getting this project done by themselves, I'm sure that Starwood is more than capable and helping them getting it done.

I think that Craig Spencer (Arden Group) did the Ritz. Maybe these people played a role, but I don't think they were the main developer.

I certainly could be wrong, and in any event I never said it would be impossible, just unlikely. Just an opinion. I just think that only a big time developer - like a Forest City, Related, Hines, etc. - with alot of credibility could pull off a project of this magnitude especially in these times.

There are alot of smaller entrepreneurial firms out there that try to pull these things off, but my impression is that very few succeed even in good times. I'm just not very optimistic.

But of course it's possible! Here's hoping.